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#1 2009-05-08 22:57:24

unexist
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From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 300
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subtle - another tiling window manager

It's been a while since the first subtle AUR package came up and there was never neither an introduction nor a thread here in the forum. Time to get this started and to hopefully get opinions/feedback of the of users who already gave/want to give subtle a try.

For all of you who never heared about subtle - here comes the intro:

subtle is another tiling window manager on the field with a grid-based manual tiling window manager with a strong focus on easy but customizable look and feel. In comparison to other tiling windows managers, subtle has no automatic tiling of the screen size in any way, instead windows are arranged according to positions inside of a grid - these positions are called gravities - which can completely be controlled with key bindings.

subtle also has a Ruby based config with support for lambdas as key bind actions, a wmctrl-like commandline tool (subtler) to interact with subtle and an extension (subtlext) for Ruby that is capable of doing the same and even more!

There are also small Ruby applets (sublets) that can show various stuff like system load and the time. The management of these scripts can be done with sur (Subtle User Repository) - a small command line script similar to gem which makes installing of a subtlet a piece of cake e.g.:

sur install clock

Windows placement and window properties are determined by a complete tagging system for clients and views and can be manipulated in the config and/or per runtime with subtler/subtlext.

Features
- Ruby integration for config/key actions and hooks
- Flexible panels with loadable Ruby scripts (sublets)
- Integrated System tray
- Complete tagging system
- ICCM/EWMH-compliant
- Lightweight

Screenshots

subtle-0.8-4.thumb.png subtle-0.8-5.thumb.png subtle-0.9-1.thumb.png

Install

The AUR packages: subtle subtle-hg sur-hg

I would suggest to pick the subtle-hg package to get the latest changes.

Contact

If you have problems, suggestions or just want to talk about subtle feel free to join #subtle on irc.freenode.org or drop a mail to unexist at dorfelite dot net.

Last edited by unexist (2010-04-24 15:40:02)

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#2 2009-05-09 00:08:30

milomouse
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Registered: 2009-03-24
Posts: 940
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Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

Pretty! I was actually just installing it, as I stumbled upon the Tiling Window Manager Comparison and noticed it was updated. Definitely more of what I'm looking for and I will let you know how it goes after I experiment a bit. smile Thanks!

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#3 2009-05-09 00:39:38

capnmoney
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From: ~
Registered: 2008-10-17
Posts: 108
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Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

Hi unexist, I like the look of subtle and the way it handles the views and tags is pretty cool.  The only problem I had was that the focus follows the mouse.  Is there an existing way to change focus through keybindings at this point?  Other than that I think it has a lot of potential.  As I lack any ruby skills (or any other programming skills whatsoever) I'm looking forward to seeing what extensions people come up with.

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#4 2009-05-09 06:11:03

Wra!th
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Registered: 2009-03-31
Posts: 342

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

Hey I like this. I'ma start testing.


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#5 2009-05-09 09:18:51

unexist
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From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 300
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Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

capnmoney wrote:

Hi unexist, I like the look of subtle and the way it handles the views and tags is pretty cool.  The only problem I had was that the focus follows the mouse.  Is there an existing way to change focus through keybindings at this point?  Other than that I think it has a lot of potential.  As I lack any ruby skills (or any other programming skills whatsoever) I'm looking forward to seeing what extensions people come up with.

Hi capnmoney, this feature is planned and there is already a ticket for it. I will add it soon, can't say how much time I will have this weekend because my gf has her birthday. wink

Thanks everyone for trying! smile

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#6 2009-05-09 14:51:09

elmer_42
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From: /na/usa/ca
Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 427

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

This looks awesome, and it supports Ruby. Attempting to make stuff for it may push me over the line from "suckish" to "OK". Woot.

e:Is there a way to use dmenu with this? When I run `dmenu`, dmenu does not show, but the terminal displays a single new line.

Last edited by elmer_42 (2009-05-09 16:09:21)


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#7 2009-05-09 17:08:52

unexist
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From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 300
Website

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

elmer_42 wrote:

e:Is there a way to use dmenu with this? When I run `dmenu`, dmenu does not show, but the terminal displays a single new line.

Actually I never used dmenu, is there a difference between dmenu and dmenu_run? The latter works fine, the first does nothing.

Edit: Sometimes checking the files is a good thing. Figured it out. wink

Last edited by unexist (2009-05-09 18:26:27)

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#8 2009-05-09 17:33:27

erikl
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From: Mars
Registered: 2006-07-15
Posts: 128

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

elmer_42 wrote:

e:Is there a way to use dmenu with this? When I run `dmenu`, dmenu does not show, but the terminal displays a single new line.

"A-p" => 'dmenu_run -fn "-jmk-neep alt-medium-*-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" -nb "#2A191D" -nf "#FFF" -sb "#F0382B" -sf "#FFF"'

etc.

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#9 2009-05-10 04:06:34

dcurtis
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From: Iowa City, IA
Registered: 2008-10-13
Posts: 53

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

I love this gravity idea but the WM in it's current state would not allow me to be productive (no offense) and I have a distaste for ruby ( love python ) but I'm willing to grow.  However, here are my comments:

1) being able to tweak the gravity settings would be nice, and per-tag.  I like to have a big left window (stacked) and a column of two windows on the right.  I use wmii and this does this OK by dividing the right column.  My one grip is the I could stack on the right, but I couldn't divide AND stack.  I see the potential for that w/ subtle.  Here is my current ss: http://static.milkbox.net/ss/ss-2009-05-06.png

2) it would be nice if you could have movement between gravities.  I'd like to move between columns.  And my gripe about like, musca and ratpoison is that when i do move between columns it doesn't keep track of the previous vertical position.  Starting with the bottom right focused, moving to the left, and then moving back to the right focuses me in the top right.  I think it would be _REALLY_ cool if you had some sort of column based movement (left gravity, center gravity, right gravity) that would cycle, and also movement up through the stack.  Not sure how this would work.

3) I prefer that new windows are created with the same gravity as the windows already open.  I would guess this is fairly easy to do.

4) switch to python... I AM KIDDING.  but seriously, i know it'll never happen but that's cool.  I just wanted to post this #4!...

anyways, keep up the good work.

Last edited by dcurtis (2009-05-10 04:09:44)


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#10 2009-05-10 04:14:57

elmer_42
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From: /na/usa/ca
Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 427

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

erikl wrote:
"A-p" => 'dmenu_run -fn "-jmk-neep alt-medium-*-*-*-10-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" -nb "#2A191D" -nf "#FFF" -sb "#F0382B" -sf "#FFF"'

etc.

Haha, just as I get excited that I've figured it out and run to this thread, I realize somebody already posted an answer. Thanks, I was lost without some sort of launch menu. Next, I'll figure out how to assign tags to windows with some sort of hotkey.


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#11 2009-05-10 06:11:35

Wra!th
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Registered: 2009-03-31
Posts: 342

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

Floating windows need to be stackable (egbe able to bring one infront of another using the mouse)


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#12 2009-05-10 08:51:37

milomouse
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Registered: 2009-03-24
Posts: 940
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Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

Wra!th wrote:

Floating windows need to be stackable (egbe able to bring one infront of another using the mouse)

I agree with Wra!th.  This is one of the things I'm having difficulty dealing with. A smaller complaint, which may or may not be due to my own ignorance, is that switching views (jump) with the shortcut seems to be a little picky. Sometimes I can use the shortcut to switch views and sometimes it refuses to work. Seems to happen mostly when I'm on an empty view and try to switch (with the shortcut) to another . I don't know if it loses focus or what. Anyway, these are minor compared to my enjoyment with Subtle so far. big_smile Thanks again.

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#13 2009-05-10 09:45:58

unexist
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From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 300
Website

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

dcurtis wrote:

I love this gravity idea but the WM in it's current state would not allow me to be productive (no offense) and I have a distaste for ruby ( love python ) but I'm willing to grow.  However, here are my comments:

1) being able to tweak the gravity settings would be nice, and per-tag.  I like to have a big left window (stacked) and a column of two windows on the right.  I use wmii and this does this OK by dividing the right column.  My one grip is the I could stack on the right, but I couldn't divide AND stack.  I see the potential for that w/ subtle.  Here is my current ss: http://static.milkbox.net/ss/ss-2009-05-06.png

2) it would be nice if you could have movement between gravities.  I'd like to move between columns.  And my gripe about like, musca and ratpoison is that when i do move between columns it doesn't keep track of the previous vertical position.  Starting with the bottom right focused, moving to the left, and then moving back to the right focuses me in the top right.  I think it would be _REALLY_ cool if you had some sort of column based movement (left gravity, center gravity, right gravity) that would cycle, and also movement up through the stack.  Not sure how this would work.

3) I prefer that new windows are created with the same gravity as the windows already open.  I would guess this is fairly easy to do.

4) switch to python... I AM KIDDING.  but seriously, i know it'll never happen but that's cool.  I just wanted to post this #4!...

anyways, keep up the good work.

1 + 2) What do you mean with 'per tag'? You can assign gravity tags to clients witht he config so that any layout is possible and you can freely create your own movement stuff with the grabs. Subtlext gives you control over gravities of the clients. Yes, it's Ruby and I won't argue about like you did in 4) - it's a matter of taste and I really like Ruby. smile

3) So just to understand this: If you set the top left gravity to a client, you would prefer that the next client also gets top left gravity?

Wra!th wrote:

Floating windows need to be stackable (egbe able to bring one infront of another using the mouse)

Well, actually this was in subtle but was removed in favor for the WindowRaise and WindowLower grab that allows e.g. to cycle through windows with center gravity.

milomouse wrote:

A smaller complaint, which may or may not be due to my own ignorance, is that switching views (jump) with the shortcut seems to be a little picky. Sometimes I can use the shortcut to switch views and sometimes it refuses to work. Seems to happen mostly when I'm on an empty view and try to switch (with the shortcut) to another . I don't know if it loses focus or what. Anyway, these are minor compared to my enjoyment with Subtle so far. big_smile Thanks again.

Oh, yes. I will fix it shortly tomorrow - you may write a ticket for it so that you can see when it's fixed.

Last edited by unexist (2009-05-10 09:57:51)

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#14 2009-05-10 15:35:47

elmer_42
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From: /na/usa/ca
Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 427

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

Alright, I've looked through the config file and I can't find a way to move a window between views. Is there a way to do this?


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#15 2009-05-10 21:08:36

unexist
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From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 300
Website

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

elmer_42 wrote:

Alright, I've looked through the config file and I can't find a way to move a window between views. Is there a way to do this?

Tagging is what you need. In subtle the placement on views is completely controlled via tags. Easiest way is to set the window sticky so that it appears on every view or write a custom grab like e.g.:

t = add_tag("test")
find_view("example") + t
c + t

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#16 2009-05-11 02:35:27

dcurtis
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From: Iowa City, IA
Registered: 2008-10-13
Posts: 53

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

to clarify,

I wanted to be able to manually tweak the gravities, so that top left is 80% wide and 20% tall or something like that.

Also, i meant, assuming the window i've currently got selected is the top left gravity and i open a new terminal, then the newly created terminal should have the same gravity.

How do i move through windows based on gravities, lets say I want to only cycle through all clients with the same gravity as I have selected?


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#17 2009-05-11 11:13:16

unexist
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 300
Website

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

dcurtis wrote:

I wanted to be able to manually tweak the gravities, so that top left is 80% wide and 20% tall or something like that.

Well, it's no problem to add a feature where you can define the grid size, but that would affect every cell and not only one. Wouldn't it be easier if you just set the desired window to floating mode?

dcurtis wrote:

Also, i meant, assuming the window i've currently got selected is the top left gravity and i open a new terminal, then the newly created terminal should have the same gravity.

It's the second time that I heared this suggestion - I think I will make this configureable. For me is centering new clients mostly the best choice. wink

Do you mind writing a ticket for this?

dcurtis wrote:

How do i move through windows based on gravities, lets say I want to only cycle through all clients with the same gravity as I have selected?

If there are multiple windows that share the same gravity you can use the WindowRaise and WindowLower grabs to cycle through these windows. And there's nothing that you can stop from writing a custom grab that does this like:

current_view.clients.each { |c|
  if(c.gravity == current_client.gravity) then
    c.raise
    c.focus
    break
  end
end

Sorry for splitting your post, but it's easier in this way to answer all of the three questions. smile

Edit: Fixed code.

Last edited by unexist (2009-05-11 17:07:20)

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#18 2009-05-11 11:53:53

dcurtis
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From: Iowa City, IA
Registered: 2008-10-13
Posts: 53

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

unexist wrote:

If there are multiple windows that share the same gravity you can use the WindowRaise and WindowLower grabs to cycle through these windows. And there's nothing that you can stop from writing a custom grab that does this like:

current_view.clients.each { |c|
  if(c.focus == current_client.focus) then
    c.raise
    c.focus
    break
  end
end

Right, but I guess I'm not being clear...

I don't want to cycle through ALL windows.  Suppose I have the top-left gravity selected.  I want to cycle through _ONLY_ those windows that have a top-left gravity.  I will try some ruby stuff and see what I come up with.


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#19 2009-05-11 12:23:41

unexist
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From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 300
Website

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

dcurtis wrote:

Right, but I guess I'm not being clear...

I don't want to cycle through ALL windows.  Suppose I have the top-left gravity selected.  I want to cycle through _ONLY_ those windows that have a top-left gravity.  I will try some ruby stuff and see what I come up with.

Uhm I guess you don't understand me: Both ways I showed up do exactly what you want to do: When there are five windows that have all the top-left gravity raise/lower changes the stacking order of the selected window and raise/lower it. 

The change of the order only affects the windows that are overlapped by this window.

My ruby snipplet compares the gravity and raises the next one with the same gravity. It's a bit stupid, because it will raise probably every time the same window but it's just an example. wink

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#20 2009-05-11 13:21:15

dcurtis
Member
From: Iowa City, IA
Registered: 2008-10-13
Posts: 53

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

unexist wrote:

Uhm I guess you don't understand me: Both ways I showed up do exactly what you want to do: When there are five windows that have all the top-left gravity raise/lower changes the stacking order of the selected window and raise/lower it. 

The change of the order only affects the windows that are overlapped by this window.

My ruby snipplet compares the gravity and raises the next one with the same gravity. It's a bit stupid, because it will raise probably every time the same window but it's just an example. wink

I'm sorry, I didn't actually try it yet.  I didn't understand that "if(c.focus == current_client.focus) then" compares the 'gravity'.  shouldn't it be something more intuitive like "if(c.gravity == current_client.gravity) then"...

Last edited by dcurtis (2009-05-11 13:25:29)


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#21 2009-05-11 17:06:30

unexist
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 300
Website

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

dcurtis wrote:

I'm sorry, I didn't actually try it yet.  I didn't understand that "if(c.focus == current_client.focus) then" compares the 'gravity'.  shouldn't it be something more intuitive like "if(c.gravity == current_client.gravity) then"...

Oww, sorry. It's indeed:

c.gravity == current_client.gravity

Focus itself is just a function. Sorry for that - I will edit my previous post.

Functions to get the next/prev client will be added asap - maybe this evening after the meeting I am currently in. wink

Last edited by unexist (2009-05-11 17:11:26)

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#22 2009-05-11 21:23:29

pauldonnelly
Member
Registered: 2006-06-19
Posts: 776

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

Why isn't it called "Subtile"? yikes

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#23 2009-05-11 21:29:58

unexist
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 300
Website

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

pauldonnelly wrote:

Why isn't it called "Subtile"? yikes

I thought about it once or twice, but the name originally comes from the book 'The subtle knife' from Philip Pullman and I really like the book and the word itself. smile

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#24 2009-05-12 08:10:02

pauldonnelly
Member
Registered: 2006-06-19
Posts: 776

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

unexist wrote:
pauldonnelly wrote:

Why isn't it called "Subtile"? yikes

I thought about it once or twice, but the name originally comes from the book 'The subtle knife' from Philip Pullman and I really like the book and the word itself. smile

I believe "subtile" is an archaic spelling of "subtle". So it's pretty much the same word. tongue

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#25 2009-05-12 09:22:04

unexist
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2008-05-13
Posts: 300
Website

Re: subtle - another tiling window manager

pauldonnelly wrote:

I believe "subtile" is an archaic spelling of "subtle". So it's pretty much the same word. tongue

'subtile' sounds more like the German meaning of it. wink

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