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#1 2009-05-29 18:29:17

vries
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Registered: 2008-04-20
Posts: 8

latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

well, as I wrote in the topic latest xkeyboard-config (1.6-1) is preventing ctrl-alt-backspace combination from killing X.  I have DonZap option set to false in my xorg.conf. I don't know if it should be like that. Is it a bug? If not, is it any workaround to make it work again?

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#2 2009-05-29 18:57:09

whoops
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Registered: 2009-03-19
Posts: 880

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

Didn't investigate anything - just tried it out and can confirm that it doesn't work any more (using arch64 btw).

- restart x-server using ctrl+alt+backspace: working
- startx
- ctrl+alt+backspace again: not doing anything any more.

Haven't restarted x for about 3-5 days, so the update which broke that has to be max 5 days old. So far so good... Gonna try stuff and most likely break stuff now wink

Last edited by whoops (2009-05-29 18:58:03)

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#3 2009-05-29 19:03:33

whoops
Member
Registered: 2009-03-19
Posts: 880

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp

I just added this command to my .xinitrc
... trying again ...
... seems to fix it (wow, I didn't break anything!)

Last edited by whoops (2009-05-29 19:07:04)

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#4 2009-05-29 19:14:24

Ashren
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From: Denmark
Registered: 2007-06-13
Posts: 1,225
Website

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

It's a "feature" of the newest version of Xorg. It can be enabled by adding the following to xorg.conf:

Section "ServerFlags"
Option "DontZap" "False"
EndSection

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#5 2009-05-29 19:17:55

brisbin33
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From: boston, ma
Registered: 2008-07-24
Posts: 1,796
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Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

this is rediculous.  another obscure line needed to get back 'normal' CAB behavior?  and the DontZap bitching had just started to die down...

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#6 2009-05-29 20:31:09

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

Can someone tell me why CAB is so frowned upon? Maybe I'm doing sth wrong, so please, enlighten me, what is the proper way to kill X? I considered it to be a handy kbd shortcut "in case sh*t happens" but because of this and that previous change I'm not sure anymore.

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#7 2009-05-29 20:50:36

Urfaust
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From: Germany
Registered: 2009-01-30
Posts: 164

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

You can kill X by using PrntScrn-Alt-k (magic sysrq), though you have to enable sysrq's in /etc/sysctl.conf....But I don't know if this is the 'proper' way do to it...:rolleyes:

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key

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#8 2009-05-29 20:52:53

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

@Urfaust
In other words, it's a vicious circle ;-)

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#9 2009-05-29 20:53:47

brisbin33
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From: boston, ma
Registered: 2008-07-24
Posts: 1,796
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Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

with this new 'feature' i believe the most vanilla way to kill X is via C-A-F1 to go to tty1 then C-c to cancel the X process

i'll forever hold onto CAB though, no matter what it takes... it's just second nature at this point

since my .bashrc finishes with `startx && logout` (if on tty1 and $DISPLAY not set...) i essentially use CAB as logout

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#10 2009-05-29 20:57:12

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

with this new 'feature' i believe the most vanilla way to kill X is via C-A-F1 to go to tty1 then C-c to cancel the X process

Well, yeah, I know that, but CAB is simpler and more KISS IMHO.
I'm asking, because maybe there is yet another - proper - way to do it.

Seems like I hijacked a thread again, sorry for that.

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#11 2009-05-29 21:05:21

brisbin33
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From: boston, ma
Registered: 2008-07-24
Posts: 1,796
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Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

karol wrote:

Well, yeah, I know that, but CAB is simpler and more KISS IMHO

no one's arguing with you there my friend.  i think you'd be hard pressed to find many arch users who are happy about the loss of default CAB functionality.

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#12 2009-05-29 21:14:45

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

I'm going to substitute xorg* w/ clay tablets. Grrrr ...

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#13 2009-05-29 21:21:15

soupcan
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From: ?
Registered: 2008-10-25
Posts: 268

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

Ashren wrote:

It's a "feature" of the newest version of Xorg. It can be enabled by adding the following to xorg.conf:

Section "ServerFlags"
Option "DontZap" "False"
EndSection

This no longer works with the latest xorg. At least not on my computer.

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#14 2009-05-29 21:28:25

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

@soupcan
And w/ 'setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp'  in .xinitrc?

@whoops
How did you get that magic spell? RTFM or sth else?

Last edited by karol (2009-05-29 21:28:58)

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#15 2009-05-29 21:33:39

whoops
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Registered: 2009-03-19
Posts: 880

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

karol wrote:

@whoops
How did you get that magic spell? RTFM or sth else?

I searched for stuff in google, opened a lot of tabs and somewhere in between there was a site about some patch that said something like "this patch removes the ctrl+alt+backspace keyboard shortcut in xorg - to reenable it, you have to type...".

So I pasted it into a terminal, hit strg+alt+backspace and it worked. Which is why I don't know, where I found that Information.

Might have been an ubuntu patch... maybe I should have mentioned that (in case someone added an ubuntu patch to xorg recently to make it "safer" and this is the result...?). edit: no, it wasn't - just found the ubuntu page I was on, and the information isn't from there. But it was on a patch site. Mostly plain text, code, patch info & lots of stuff I didn't understand.

edit2: Aaaah, there it was: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/x … 00627.html

Last edited by whoops (2009-05-29 21:41:33)

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#16 2009-05-29 21:39:41

karol
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Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

I don't mind patches, even from Ubuntu, but pretty please, don't do *that* again. I'm on a quest to find that patch and make him an offer ... :-)

Edit: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XorgCtrlAltBackspace/Discussion
http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/x … 38786.html
It looks like it's going to be a long night ...

Last edited by karol (2009-05-29 21:42:54)

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#17 2009-05-29 21:47:34

whoops
Member
Registered: 2009-03-19
Posts: 880

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

lol, great link. Hey, let's disable the r key by default, so noone can accidentally "rm -R /home" any more! wink

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#18 2009-05-29 21:52:15

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

Don't forget the deadly 'Ctrl-S' (OK, I admit, I got caught by it once).
I suggest confirmation for using space, so 'rm -r / home' (notice the space after '/') is easier to avoid.

Edit: Those ideas (DontZap & no-CAB) are fun as in 'dysfunctional'. As you can see from this thread http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=67232&p=2 (around post #40) I don't like the idea that popular = correct.
Those changes mean that I have to jump through hoops to get what I want because I'm not a normal user. That's what I get for being above-average.

Edit 2: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/x … 38798.html

Last edited by karol (2009-05-29 23:05:27)

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#19 2009-05-30 02:44:24

soupcan
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From: ?
Registered: 2008-10-25
Posts: 268

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

karol wrote:

@soupcan
And w/ 'setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp'  in .xinitrc?

Yes. That works. Thanks!

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#20 2009-05-30 05:05:12

unregistered
Member
Registered: 2008-04-09
Posts: 134

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

karol wrote:

@soupcan
And w/ 'setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp'  in .xinitrc?

that works, thanks, but its not in the wiki

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#21 2009-05-30 05:37:28

WyoPBS
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From: Cheyenne, WY
Registered: 2007-10-05
Posts: 101
Website

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

unregistered wrote:

that works, thanks, but its not in the wiki

And therein lies the real problem.  I guess I can learn to live with weird changes that make some people happy but piss off others, but for Torvald's sake how about DOCUMENT them somewhere?  When I install an "upgrade" it's a crapshoot whether some new configuration flags will prevent my system from even booting... the completely arbitrary switch to identifying /dev/hd* to /dev/sd* left me unable to boot for a week until I found out what happened, and don't get me started on how udev upgrades mess up my hardware accesses nearly every time.

A readme... that's all I ask, is a readme when a new feature or method changes the way it used to work.


Peter B. Steiger
Cheyenne, WY

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#22 2009-05-30 05:42:38

Ashren
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From: Denmark
Registered: 2007-06-13
Posts: 1,225
Website

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

Why don't they (the Xorg devs) want people to have this feature anymore? To protect newbies from losing data? Some other reason?

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#23 2009-05-30 07:29:19

tomk
Forum Fellow
From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,839

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

WyoPBS wrote:

A readme... that's all I ask, is a readme when a new feature or method changes the way it used to work.

So ask the people who made the change i.e. the upstream devs. Arch is not responsible for this.

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#24 2009-05-30 08:01:22

hatten
Arch Linux f@h Team Member
From: Sweden, Borlange
Registered: 2009-02-23
Posts: 736

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

I do not know if this is the place to raise that question, but I wonder whether the ctrl-alt-f* key combinations should also be disabled by default. How is a normal user accidentally hitting those keys supposed to know that hitting ctrl-f7 brings back the X server ? - François Terrier, August 14, 2007

The people at ubuntu are just plain stupid. Nowadays you cannot do anything but a hard reset. Except if you can switch to a tty.

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#25 2009-05-30 09:14:38

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: latest xkeyboard-config prevents ctrl-alt-backspace from killing X

@soupcan & unregistered
Your thanks should go to whoops as (s)he found it. I've added it to wiki.

@WyoPBS
That's weird, I still couldn't find it in the wiki after your comment. Could you please point me to the change you've made so that I can remove mine? There's no reason to duplicate such tips.

@Ashren
Not only newbies. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/XorgCtrlAltBackspace/Discussion There is at least one post from a machine-gun typist who sometimes accidentally hits that combination when using Emacs (what else - blame it on Emacs ;-) ) and he is "too lazy to investigate reconfiguration so far". Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over?!

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