Google empire

vkumar · 2009-07-08 13:06:00

And so it begins;
http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/07/ … me-os.html

and dyou guys hear that the browser just got gtk theming?

:d

Cerebral · 2009-07-08 13:17:01

"Google Chrome OS" - interesting, in that all that makes it up (according to the article) is google chrome (ie. the browser), slapped in a WM on Linux.

I guess the idea is that any apps you want to run are web-based apps - no more native applications, aside from Chrome itself.

moljac024 · 2009-07-08 13:27:32

What I'm reading is "Google chrome running in a new windowing system". Not window manager....is that right ?
Did they replace Xorg ? Or did they mean window manager ?

Procyon · 2009-07-08 13:32:26

The software architecture is simple — Google Chrome running within a new windowing system on top of a Linux kernel.

Chrome X + Chrome DE?

Why would they make a new X?

vkumar · 2009-07-08 13:44:29

Poor choice of words on their part, maybe.

What really botherse is that they're already chasing OEMs..

Trent · 2009-07-08 14:13:13

netbooks running Google Chrome OS will be available for consumers in the second half of 2010.

I just might get one of those... I'm anxious to see how this pans out, both for Google and for already-Linux users.

My mind really revulses at the idea of running "all" your apps on the Web. At least, with the available tools to do that today. Java? Flash? HTML/Javascript? All very well for some purposes, but just not up to snuff for everyday tasks. If Google introduces a new platform, maybe, but that would conflict with the stated goal of maintaining compatibility with other platforms.

Not to mention, there are some times when I really (gasp) don't want to be connected to the Web.

Dusty · 2009-07-08 14:23:15

Trent wrote:

I really (gasp) don't want to be connected to the Web.

HTML 5 or google gears takes care of this.

Dusty

iphitus · 2009-07-08 14:30:48

Trent wrote:

netbooks running Google Chrome OS will be available for consumers in the second half of 2010.
I just might get one of those... I'm anxious to see how this pans out, both for Google and for already-Linux users.
My mind really revulses at the idea of running "all" your apps on the Web. .

To be honest, I can't think of anything worse either.

They're slow. As long as they're running over the internet, they can't compete with a desktop app. If I want to see my applications render slowly, piece by piece and take up to 10 seconds to simply load a freaking dialog I'll run KDE4 on my Pentium 2.

Half the web-apps are hosted in the US, so here in Australia, there's always going to be miserable latency. Worse still, most web apps are totally unusuable on a slower connection. I cannot load my university email or blackboard when my internet is capped.

Then there's the lack of control/customisation. Greasemonkey/Stylish don't count and are only capable of trivial things. They're hacks, klutzy and they break.

And the disregard for UI consistency/usability and any existing convention - let alone support for those with disabilities! Everything looks different, every website has to have it's own horrible theming system. Every website has to re-invent the UI all over again, usually miserably.

Only on a shitty web app can the most trivial features like sortable lists be lauded as a life changing improvement. Last time I checked, GTK list/treeviews offered that out of the box.

Lexion · 2009-07-08 14:55:18

And in addition, all browsers take up alot of CPU. I'm running swiftfox and it still takes up a good 4-5% CPU.

And isn't the iGoogle homepage enough?

Bregol · 2009-07-08 15:02:04

So if all my apps are online, what if I'm in a place without internet and I want to play a game or type a letter or...?

tomk · 2009-07-08 15:07:50

You have to give Google credit, though, for their in-depth market research:

Google Bullshit Department wrote:

We hear a lot from our users and their message is clear — computers need to get better.

moljac024 · 2009-07-08 15:12:00

Bregol wrote:

So if all my apps are online, what if I'm in a place without internet and I want to play a game or type a letter or...?

Yes, my gripe with web-app crazy exactly!

Also, I see it as a type of Orwellian/Big Brother take on computing...don't like it one bit

Dusty · 2009-07-08 16:47:41

I'm amazed all you tech folks missed the implications of my earlier message. :-D

With localserver in HTML 5 and google gears, you can serve a web app AS IF IT WAS RUNNING LOCALLY. This means it won't be any slower than a desktop app, unless the underlying engines (javascript) are also slow (which they are -- even chrome's lightning engine doesn't come up to a compiled app).

What google wants is for us to all start developing offline-enabled web apps so that they can be downloaded in your browser when you have a connection, can run in your browser whether or not you have a connection, can be updated in your browser when you have a connection, and sync your data to a server when you have a connection so you can access it from some other browser when you have a connection.

I started writing webapps like this about eight months ago and I love it. There are some drawbacks (most of the app is javascript, but I have a plan to fix that... sandbox pypy <script type='text/python'> print "goodness"), but for the most part, the benefits of zero install and instant updates, not to mention having complete control of your customers' data are too good to pass up. Plus complete device independence; the one thing you have to worry about is screen resolution -- an app I wrote for my android phone doesn't look so hot in firefox.

So, anybody want to write an offline-enabled web based IDE with me?

Dusty

wuischke · 2009-07-08 17:00:16

So, anybody want to write an offline-enabled web based IDE with me?

Sounds interesting. Can you shoot me a mail or link with some more infos on your plan and how it's supposed to work?

alienman · 2009-07-08 17:06:05

I think the good news is that the OpenSource people will benefit from google guys working with US, if you like something they do, then you can use it, if not well it's ok, nobody is bending you to use their apps.

I think it's a good new that a big group of developers will help the opensource community. I don't really use many apps only my gmail and calendar. I think there will be better integration of their apps with linux, and thats great.

At the end I think google makes better software than Microsoft does.

dunc · 2009-07-08 17:28:21

Procyon wrote:

Why would they make a new X?

Because they don't need the whole caboodle just for running a browser?

I've had this conversation already today, and I think people are expecting more from it than Google has actually announced. The way I read it, it's not some whizz-bang new distro with a flashy new DE. Chrome is the DE. You won't just be encouraged to use web apps; as far as I can see, the only "traditional" app that'll run on this OS at all is the browser itself. So they've probably built some kind of minimal display server that's just enough to work. My guess it that it has nothing in common with X, but we'll see...

And yes, the whole thing sounds awful. But quite clever.

Peasantoid · 2009-07-08 17:42:43

Aaaargh.

Dusty · 2009-07-08 18:03:32

wuischke wrote:

So, anybody want to write an offline-enabled web based IDE with me?
Sounds interesting. Can you shoot me a mail or link with some more infos on your plan and how it's supposed to work?

Keep an eye on my blog... I've had this in the back of my mind for quite some time now. I wish I'd posted it last week instead so I could've sounded prophetic. ;-)

Dusty

Garns · 2009-07-08 18:24:21

vkumar wrote:

What really botherse is that they're already chasing OEMs..

Why does this bother you, it's the only realistic way for them to get some market share. And I don't think anyone around here really cares wether his shiny new Box is bundled with Vista, Chrome OS, Ubuntu, PC DOS or whatever.

Andin case they get a decent market share, we could even get better hardware support out of this (maybe).

scio · 2009-07-08 18:42:47

Dusty wrote:

wuischke wrote:
So, anybody want to write an offline-enabled web based IDE with me?
Sounds interesting. Can you shoot me a mail or link with some more infos on your plan and how it's supposed to work?
Keep an eye on my blog... I've had this in the back of my mind for quite some time now. I wish I'd posted it last week instead so I could've sounded prophetic. ;-)
Dusty

Similar to Bespin? (https://bespin.mozilla.com/)

pauldonnelly · 2009-07-08 18:43:41

dunc wrote:

Procyon wrote:
Why would they make a new X?
Because they don't need the whole caboodle just for running a browser?

Gotta have drivers though.

Anyway, I hope it fails. The last thing we need is a world where our apps are black boxes served over the Internet, with acceptable programs chosen by some evil corporation ('sup, iPhone). Serve me a service. Nobody should get control over both endpoints.

Solid1986Snake · 2009-07-08 18:49:30

Just a little off-topic comment...

It seems that they really really investigate much more effort in linux systems... i watched the evolution of chromium on linux the last months... and about the last 2-3 weeks it got so much more fast forware... in the past 2 weeks the bookmarks manager got useful, flash is working now... the thing is fast as hell...

Dusty · 2009-07-08 19:01:39

pauldonnelly wrote:

Anyway, I hope it fails. The last thing we need is a world where our apps are black boxes served over the Internet, with acceptable programs chosen by some evil corporation ('sup, iPhone). Serve me a service. Nobody should get control over both endpoints.

Who says its blackbox? The apps can still be open source, hosted where you want. wordpress, anyone?

Of course what google wants is: Use google chrome OS with google chrome browser running google gears to access a google datastore hosted on google appengine through your google account... that's a wee bit scary. yup.

Dusty

beroal · 2009-07-08 19:16:03

Dusty wrote:

What google wants is for us to all start developing offline-enabled web apps so that they can be downloaded in your browser when you have a connection, can run in your browser whether or not you have a connection, can be updated in your browser when you have a connection, and sync your data to a server when you have a connection so you can access it from some other browser when you have a connection.

I can download a program in any cross-platform language (Java, Python, Haskell, you name it) and run it. I need to decide, where a program reside, which rights it has, when should it run on a schedule — there is no such thing as "zero install". And I don't think that connecting to the internet is much simpler from the web-browser framework than using some library. Advantages are too vague… Maybe Google OS is a script that downloads a program and runs it in one step, like two-liner in bash?

vkumar · 2009-07-08 21:50:30

Garns wrote:

vkumar wrote:
What really botherse is that they're already chasing OEMs..
Why does this bother you, it's the only realistic way for them to get some market share. And I don't think anyone around here really cares wether his shiny new Box is bundled with Vista, Chrome OS, Ubuntu, PC DOS or whatever.

I don't see why they want huge market share.. I don't believe they think it's their duty to make computers "better", and it's not possible to make too much money with it (seeing as it will eventually be completely open-source). I just don't understand why they're doing this.

I disagree with you on the last point "no one cares which OS machines ship with".. I'll have you know I'm going to get a refund for Vista on my new lappy!

Andin case they get a decent market share, we could even get better hardware support out of this (maybe).

Yep.
Regardless of whether or not this happens, it'll be great for open source. The linux kernel should enjoy a surge of contributions from googlers in the coming months - and even if Chrome OS fails, those contributions will be there for us forever.

Arch Linux

#1 2009-07-08 13:06:00

Google empire

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#3 2009-07-08 13:27:32

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#4 2009-07-08 13:32:26

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