You are not logged in.

#1 2009-07-19 16:12:10

beatepix
Member
Registered: 2009-07-18
Posts: 20

New Arch user with some questions

Hello everyone, this is my first official post in this forum and i would like to express my enthusiasm for getting started with Arch. I have been an avid Linux user for a little over 2 years now and like most I got my start using Ubuntu/ Linux Mint, although lately Ive been feeling like I need to take my experience and understanding of my favorite OS to a new level. I have spent the last few days researching and mapping out what I want my Arch to be and have run one successful test in Vbox. Even though I call the test successful, I have to admit that I had help from some friends in IRC to get me past the configuration of X and GDM and I dont completely understand some things about what went on and I hope that I might be able to get some insight and suggestions from you, the members of this forum. First I list the packages that I installed to give u an idea of what kind of desktop I want:

Fluxbox (I may be persuaded to use openbox if there are benefits to it)
arora (web browser)
claws mail (email client)
pidgin (IM)
xchat (IRC)
deluge (torrent client)
sonata (audio player)
gimp (graphics editing)
feh (pic viewer)
vlc (media player)
ePRFView (PDF)
leafpad (text editor)
abiword (I may switch this out with Openoffice, I havent decided yet)
brassero (may switch this with K3B as it seems to only work when it wants to in my experience)
thunar (file manager)
conky (monitor)
BMpanel (i would like to use this over the default flux one if possible)
sakura (terminal)

There it is and along with it comes my first set of questions. I have to admit that I am a spoiled linux user coming from using Ubuntu and I really havent payed much attention to the smaller, everyday use programs that help u accomplish all those little mundane tasks that need to be done, such as archiving and things like that. If you could provide me with a list of things that u think I will be needing I would much appreciate it.

As I said, I may be persuaded into using Openbox over Flux if someone can convince me why it would be better. Pretty much I want my desktop to look like http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs47/f/2009/ … st1227.png  BTW Cudos to u Ghost1227 youve got some talent. Anyways back on point, If this is simply fluxbox like I believe it is Im happy with that.

Next on my list is the proper configuration of my system. So far to my understanding, after the initial installation I synced Pacman (which imo is way better than apt) and started downloading and installing all of my packages. then create the the user profile that I will be using to access the system. Once that is done I downloaded and installed Xorg and this is where things start getting a little confusing for me. I went over the wiki instructions on how to do this but found myself a little lost in some parts, and also I am going to need to start from scratch because I use an Nvidia GPU and seeing as how I was Vboxing that install I never tried with that driver. So as I understand it (and please correct me where I am wrong) this would be the process:

(1)pacman -S xorg
(2)pacman -S nvidia
(3)nvidia-xconfig
(4)comment out  [Load           "type1"]
(5)startx

or would I not even run (1)pacman -S xorg and just use the instructions from http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/NVIDIA here?

Ok so now that Xorg would be up and running I assume that GDM would need to be configured. I was given 2 different examples of how to do this but more or less how I understand it is done would be to do this:

(1) while logged in as my regular user and not root, run $cp /etc/skel/.xinitrc ~/
(2) add "exec startfluxbox" to that file
(3) edit /etc/rc.conf
(4) add "hal fam gdm" to that file

Now Im not sure if that is the proper way to go about this so please let me know if it isnt or if I have a better alternative.

I do have some other questions but these should be good enough to get me started for now and like I said feel free to shoot your suggestions and opinions my way on anything you feel is relevant. I really want to master the actual installation of the desktop before I even touch messing around with themes and such to make it look good. Thanks for taking the time to read though all of this and again, glad to be here!

Cheers

Last edited by beatepix (2009-07-19 16:14:07)

Offline

#2 2009-07-19 16:24:31

majiq
Member
Registered: 2009-03-06
Posts: 259

Re: New Arch user with some questions

As an NVIDIA user, myself, your installation seems okay, but I would throw in "xf86-input-evdev xf86-input-keyboard xf86-input-mouse" with xorg, as an "in case".

Edit: I'm not sure about the Type 1; I had to comment out dri lines. A small amount of trial-and-error will lead you straight on that.

As for the fluxbox statement, I'm not entirely sure. I don't use fluxbox myself, but it sounds okay. Another solution to getting the gdm to autostart on load (and in some opinions better) is to edit the /etc/inittab file.

Welcome. :-)

Last edited by majiq (2009-07-19 16:25:18)

Offline

#3 2009-07-19 18:28:24

beatepix
Member
Registered: 2009-07-18
Posts: 20

Re: New Arch user with some questions

Thanks for he input ill check into initab now and see where that takes me. Any other takers?

Offline

#4 2009-07-19 18:30:15

rwd
Member
Registered: 2009-02-08
Posts: 664

Re: New Arch user with some questions

I'm coming from Ubuntu as well and the first time I followed the the beginners guide I was surprised that Linux is so modular. The guide lets you do things quite step by step so you don't need to plan everything in advance, first install x and the drivers, try if you can start up a bare x-session from the commandline, then install a desktop environment, tweak the session a bit, try if that runs etc. I realized I can do without a graphical login manager so now I just boot straight into X with autologin. Furthermore I'm not familiar with Nvidia but with Xorg 1.6 a lot of autodetection has been added so in many cases you don't need a xorg.conf file.. you might try that first.

I have no experience with fluxbox. Openbox seems to be most popular on the forum, and the tiling windowmanagers. I think they are on par featurewise. You can make both look like that, just try them out .Xfce is nice as well if you want something lightweight and easy to configure (my desktop).

Last edited by rwd (2009-07-19 18:43:43)

Offline

#5 2009-07-19 18:37:40

beatepix
Member
Registered: 2009-07-18
Posts: 20

Re: New Arch user with some questions

rwd wrote:

I'm coming from Ubuntu as well and the first time I followed the the newbie guide I was surprised that Linux is so modular. The guide lets you do things quite step by step so you don't need to plan everything in advance, first install x and the drivers, try if you can start up a bare x-session from the commandline, then install a desktop environment, tweak the session a bit, try if that runs etc. I realized I can do without a graphical login manager so now I just boot straight into X with autologin. Furthermore I'm not familiar with Nvidia but with Xorg 1.6 a lot of autodetection has been added so in many cases you don't need a xorg.conf file.. you might try that first.

Could u post this newbie guide or are you just referring to the wiki?

Offline

#6 2009-07-19 18:55:29

madalu
Member
Registered: 2009-05-05
Posts: 217

Re: New Arch user with some questions

beatepix wrote:

Fluxbox (I may be persuaded to use openbox if there are benefits to
it)

...

As I said, I may be persuaded into using Openbox over Flux if someone
can convince me why it would be better. Pretty much I want my desktop
to look like
http://fc05.deviantart.com/fs47/f/2009/ … st1227.png
BTW Cudos to u Ghost1227 youve got some talent. Anyways back on point,
If this is simply fluxbox like I believe it is Im happy with that.

Welcome! My recommendation would be to try both openbox and fluxbox to
see which you prefer. Swapping out window managers in Arch Linux is
fantastically easy, so there's no harm in trying several out to see
which you like best. Also, see which you find more intuitive to
configure.

In my own experience, I prefer the "blank slate" that openbox offers.
I never liked the fluxbox "slit" (i.e., the fluxbox panel), though I
can see how some people might prefer a window manager that includes a
panel out of the box.

Fluxbox has tabbed windows; openbox does not.

Openbox has the fantastic GrowToEdge actions, which you can bind to
keys. These cause the active window to expand up/down/right/left to
the nearest edge (either another app or the edge of the screen).

In general, I prefer Openbox styles to those of Fluxbox -- they look
more elegant IMO.

Offline

#7 2009-07-19 19:01:19

rwd
Member
Registered: 2009-02-08
Posts: 664

Re: New Arch user with some questions

beatepix wrote:
rwd wrote:

I'm coming from Ubuntu as well and the first time I followed the the newbie guide I was surprised that Linux is so modular. The guide lets you do things quite step by step so you don't need to plan everything in advance, first install x and the drivers, try if you can start up a bare x-session from the commandline, then install a desktop environment, tweak the session a bit, try if that runs etc. I realized I can do without a graphical login manager so now I just boot straight into X with autologin. Furthermore I'm not familiar with Nvidia but with Xorg 1.6 a lot of autodetection has been added so in many cases you don't need a xorg.conf file.. you might try that first.

Could u post this newbie guide or are you just referring to the wiki?

Yes I meant the beginners guide. It is better to ask one specific question per topic by the way. That will result in more answers.

madalu wrote:

Openbox has the fantastic GrowToEdge actions

Xfce (or rather xfwm) has something similar: double click on a titlebar to make a window fill an empty space. Indeed very useful.  Openbox is probably more configurable tough.

Last edited by rwd (2009-07-19 20:22:25)

Offline

#8 2009-07-19 20:53:21

beatepix
Member
Registered: 2009-07-18
Posts: 20

Re: New Arch user with some questions

Thanks for the replies they have all been quite helpful, esp the beginners guide (dont know why I couldnt find that in the first place). Im starting to feel more comfortable with this already, but there is one more thing I would like some info on. I posted a list of programs I would like to use in the OP but I would still be open to suggestions for more. Especially programs for archiving and performing thats like that. Maybe you could post me a list of what you guys are using so I could get some ideas?

Offline

#9 2009-07-19 21:24:25

rwd
Member
Registered: 2009-02-08
Posts: 664

Re: New Arch user with some questions

People here tend to prefer commandline apps. I use weechat for irc, rtorrent for torrents, rdiff-backup for backups, But I like some gui ones like Geany for general editing and scripting, and virtualbox to run windows. I also recommend to learn a little bash scripting and the gnu tools (grep/awk/etc).

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Common_Apps

Last edited by rwd (2009-07-19 21:36:00)

Offline

#10 2009-07-19 21:31:04

beatepix
Member
Registered: 2009-07-18
Posts: 20

Re: New Arch user with some questions

rwd wrote:

People here tend to prefer commandline apps. I use weechat for irc, rtorrent for torrents, rdiff-backup for backups, But I like some gui ones like Geany for general editing and scripting, and virtualbox to run windows. Also handy to learn some bash and the gnu tools (grep/awk/etc). See also:

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Common_Apps

Perfect thats exactly what I was looking for. I found a similar page in the wiki that was just for lightweight apps but this even better. Thnx again : )

Offline

#11 2009-07-19 21:32:17

windtalker
Member
Registered: 2008-03-17
Posts: 220

Re: New Arch user with some questions

To make an hd install a little less painless:

There is a Beginners guide listed in the very first paragraph in the wiki.
It's hi lited in blue, just click it.
Read it through before installing to see what may or may not apply to you as it can get confusing to someone who has never installed in the Arch manner before.

I just did 2 installs of Arch in about as many weeks.
One Gnome and one KDEMod 3.5.
Unless the currently available .iso's have been updated,,,[someone in the know may wish to chime in here],,, the .iso is missing a needed package for python in order to run rankmirrors.
When you get to that point, don't install python yet.
Instead:

1. Cut all mirrors not on your continent along with the Arch mirror which is the first one on the list.
2. Sync pacman and go ahead and do a full update. [pacman -Syu]
3. Reboot because you now have a new kernel and it alleviates you forgetting there is a new kernel and it''ll futch up your xorg later on in the install if you don't reboot now. [just type reboot and hit enter]
4. Go ahead and install python and do your rankmirrors directly after logging back in.
Takes a little longer but not enough to get upset about and it's still done right.

I run Nvidia as well and use the nvidia-173xx and couldn't be more thrilled with it's performance.
I install xorg as well as mesa.
I then install the nvidia driver;
[libgl will come up as a conflict and ask if you wish it to be removed,,, answer y [yes]]

After the install I do:

# nvidia-xconfig --composite --add-argb-glx-visuals

I then edit my xorg.conf to look like this:

Section "Device"
    Identifier     "Device0"
    Driver         "nvidia"
    VendorName     "NVIDIA Corporation"
    Option         "RenderAccel" "True"        <<<<added
    Option         "NoLogo" "True"               <<<<added
    Option         "AGPFastWrite" "True"      <<<<added
    Option         "EnablePageFlip" "True"     <<<<added
    Option         "TripleBuffer" "True"           <<<<added
EndSection

The Beginers guide says to comment out any instances of Dri.
I check of course but I havn't seen Dri in my xorg.conf yet.
I then do depmod -a, add hal to my daemons list and reboot.
When I come back, my preference is to log in as root, then su - [username] and try startx.
I do NOT disable hotplugging anymore and startx hasn't failed for me yet.
If startx works fine for you,,, skip down to installing your WM of choice be it fluxbox, openbox whatever along with the recommended fonts.
You're xorg is configured and working fine so there is no need to go through the xorg.conf stage or all of the other things mentioned.
Don't overlook the mention of useful apps almost at the bottom of the page after installing the WM.

Another tip.
If you plan on using Frostwire or Google Earth, don't install the Sun jre.
Just install Frostwire or Google Earth or both and it'll pull the jre in with the install that is needed and put it where the app can find it.
The jre Frostwire/Google Earth pulls in works just as well as Sun's jre in any event,,, at least for me.
As for what is better, openbox or fluxbox, I don't use them and if I were to go minimal, I'd go icewm anyway.
Having said that, if all you're after is the look, you can pretty much make any DE look however you want to a large extent.
This is Linux, it's configurable as hell.
Good luck, enjoy and welcome to Arch.

Offline

#12 2009-07-19 22:20:59

beatepix
Member
Registered: 2009-07-18
Posts: 20

Re: New Arch user with some questions

Thanks for that post, it will help me tremendously when I actually install this on my box, as I cant install the nvidia drivers in Vbox.

Offline

#13 2009-07-19 22:52:20

beatepix
Member
Registered: 2009-07-18
Posts: 20

Re: New Arch user with some questions

Well my second test using the info here was a great success! I think Im going to install it on my box now and I should have no troubles tweaking it from then on. Thanks again for the help guys and Ill see you around, as Im sure ill have more questions soon, lol.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB