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#1 2004-10-25 23:19:35

thegnu
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From: Brooklyn, NY
Registered: 2004-05-04
Posts: 280
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NOTE about fetchmail-conf deps (TCL/TK)

Hey, I installed fetchmail, and I didn't have tcl/tk installed.  When I ran fetchmail-conf, there was an error.

So I installed tcl and tk.  I already had python, but I think it's a dep too.  I don't know if you guys are aware of this, or if you care.  I just thought I'd say it.
smile


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#2 2004-10-26 01:41:53

punkrockguy318
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Registered: 2004-02-15
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Re: NOTE about fetchmail-conf deps (TCL/TK)

Add it to the bug tracker


If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.   1 Corinthians 13:2

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#3 2004-10-28 20:36:26

thegnu
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From: Brooklyn, NY
Registered: 2004-05-04
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Re: NOTE about fetchmail-conf deps (TCL/TK)

OK.  I'm just acquainting myself with this bug reporting crap.  Thanks.


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#4 2004-10-30 05:25:49

Xentac
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Re: NOTE about fetchmail-conf deps (TCL/TK)

Listing all deps for all programs in all packages would make a lot of people hate arch...

I mean, do you need a browser to install java?  What about gnome-pilot to install evolution?  Samba for kde?

We try to add the dependencies for common application usage to a package.  Fetchmail's common usage is the fetchmail binary which doesn't depend on python or tcl.


I have discovered that all of mans unhappiness derives from only one source, not being able to sit quietly in a room
- Blaise Pascal

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#5 2004-10-31 20:06:54

thegnu
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From: Brooklyn, NY
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Posts: 280
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Re: NOTE about fetchmail-conf deps (TCL/TK)

Right-o Xentac.  That was also something I was considering.  I had no luck logging in to the bugtracker, so not to worry.

It could be added in the post install a mention to deps like evolution's post-install mentions gnome-pilot.  I have also mentioned this in the past, but what do you think of a field for optional feature dependencies, or developer-recommended supplemental installs?

I've encountered this a lot when fooling around with making packages.  If there were an optional dependencies field, then people could pacman -Qi it to see if there were other deps if an extended feature failed.  On the other hand, the fetchmail thing I ran into wasn't that hard to resolve and I wasn't really pleased with the GUI anyway, so maybe it's not that big of a problem.  If people are having trouble with fetchmail-config, they can always ask a question on the forum.

On the OTHER hand (yes, I have three), since I would imagine it happens that optional feature dependencies later become actual dependencies as said feature becomes more robust and finalized, it might help to have a place to within the packaging system store this information.

There's a field for make deps, which is not used too often (at least not by the average or mean user), would it be complicating things too much to add another such field?


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#6 2004-11-01 01:12:36

Xentac
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Re: NOTE about fetchmail-conf deps (TCL/TK)

I think that having a post install message is an acceptable request.

The problem with optional deps is, what exactly does it change?

In Debian they have optional and recommended deps.  You can configure whether you want optional and/or recommended deps installed.  I always wanted both because otherwise I'd have to add them by hand afterwards anyway (essentially you had a lot of bare packages that needed the recommended or optional packages to really be useful).

Having a package with 4 dependencies and 5 optional dependencies doesn't tell a user which one needs to be installed so they can use feature X.  Instead they end up just installing the other 5 and hoping that works.

At that point it just becomes extra information tagged on that's not helpful enough.

Maybe if we had a way to indicate feature X would be enabled with optional dep Y... but that'd be hell to manage (you'd have to find a way to employ all of us developers full time...) and is very reminiscent of use flags in gentoo (except binary based... only... the gentooers said that was impossible...).

Oh yeah, and you can't relate this to makedepends... makedepends aren't stored anywhere in the package or the pacman database.  They're only used by makepkg.


I have discovered that all of mans unhappiness derives from only one source, not being able to sit quietly in a room
- Blaise Pascal

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#7 2004-11-01 15:08:36

thegnu
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From: Brooklyn, NY
Registered: 2004-05-04
Posts: 280
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Re: NOTE about fetchmail-conf deps (TCL/TK)

Xentac wrote:

The problem with optional deps is, what exactly does it change?
...
Having a package with 4 dependencies and 5 optional dependencies doesn't tell a user which one needs to be installed so they can use feature X.

Well, yeah.  It would at least give an idea of something to try out when you get an error message.  But I guess we have documentation for that. smile

But what you said about Debian having an option to install optional deps is not necessarily a bad idea.  You could have a yes/no/ask field in pacman.conf for optional deps.

I guess the real thing I wish is that developers would be a little better about listing dependencies.  Which is not a complaint about all developers, just some of them.

Xentac wrote:

Oh yeah, and you can't relate this to makedepends... makedepends aren't stored anywhere in the package or the pacman database.  They're only used by makepkg.

Oh.  Well nevermind then. big_smile


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