Arch Linux

blackfedora

Member

From: USA (East coast usually)

Registered: 2009-06-22

Posts: 73

Random system hanging

*** EDIT *** see second page for post with xorg.conf, rc.conf and menu.lst files. Unfortunately the problem persists

I've been using arch for almost 3 months now, and I have yet to figure out what's causing my system to hang. Originally I thought it was a WoW + wine + compiz fusion problem but then I reinstalled w/o compiz and it continued so I thought it was Wine's fault, but then I had a few hang ups when wine wasn't open, or when the computer wasn't even doing anything because I was in the middle of reading an article on it. I first tried updating my nvidia drivers because it only happens when i have a GUI up and running, I've never experienced any trouble from the command line. But I've gone through 3 drivers and 3 sets of 32-bit utilities (my system is 64bit) with no luck.

I haven't yet experienced a lock up outside of wow with this driver, but I'm not too hopeful.

Does this sound like my hardware is defective somewhere? If so which part(s) and how can I test them? The annoying thing is that the crashes will happen days apart so I haven't been able to test very many things to see if they're causing a crash. It just seems to crash whenever.

Memtest ran for 10+ hours with no errors, so at this point I'm thinking of just running ubuntu for a while to see if it's the hardware. Any other thoughts or advice would be greatly appreciated, and I'll gladly post any files that are relevant. (I can't get any crash logs though since my computer goes completely unresponsive and I don't have anything try and ssh with).

Thank you for any help you can give me, I really don't want to give up on arch, it's been a great experience so far, and I hate to throw in the towel after learning so much by continuously breaking my computer . I just can't take the random full system crashes, it's like I'm back in the 90's -_-

Last edited by blackfedora (2009-09-09 04:11:38)

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Confusion is always the most honest response, and I'm a very honest person

lamberss

Member

Registered: 2009-04-11

Posts: 10

Re: Random system hanging

I recently was having similar problems with a very similar setup (I do not use compiz, but everything else sounds the same).  I did the bad thing and just put up with it, but then one day my video card stopped working altogether.  I replaced the card with another of the same model, and everything was fine for a while, then the freezing started again.

I did some investigation, and found out that my power supply doesn't put out as much power as the video card wants to use (I hate dell for not checking this).  I am currently waiting for new parts to see if the problems persist once I have the proper power supply for my video card.

In the mean time, I threw in a pretty old video card I had in an old computer.  WoW works fine now without crashing (but I only get ~10 fps so I don't want this to be a long-term solution).

So, I don't know if this is what is causing your problems, but you might want to make sure your power supply is good enough for your video card.

Finally, if you like using firefox and flash then I strongly advise you to use a 32bit versions of each.  I had all kinds of trouble with firefox crashing when I tried using the 64bit flashplugin.

blackfedora

Member

From: USA (East coast usually)

Registered: 2009-06-22

Posts: 73

Re: Random system hanging

Do you know where I can find that information? I have

GPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6814187069

PSU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6817139006

Mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6813128371

CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6819115057

Memory (4GB 2DIMM):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6820231200

I was told by everyone that I was getting way too much Power for that system, but if that's what's causing it, whatever, i'll get more power asap!

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Confusion is always the most honest response, and I'm a very honest person

10wattmindtrip

Member

Registered: 2009-06-18

Posts: 28

Re: Random system hanging

How odd is this:

I was browsing through the forums while tweaking a fresh install of Arch. I was installing WoW, obviously had firefox running and MPD playing tunes. I was reading this post and BAM! System froze!

I had a similar problem as yours before. However the system didn't freeze. Instead it would happen only when I played WoW in wine: My monitor would shut off and the fan on my video card (nvidia 9600GT) would go full speed like it does before drivers are installed. The only way to get passed it was a cold reboot. No key combinations work.

I still have no idea what the issue is. Seems like it's connected with Wine and possibly, I think, bin32-nvidia-utils.. maybe.. I don't know though.

I'm curious about this because never before have I had the system just FREEZE like that.

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AdrenalineJunky

Member

Registered: 2009-05-03

Posts: 149

Re: Random system hanging

barring a defect, that PSU is definately more then enough power.

blackfedora

Member

From: USA (East coast usually)

Registered: 2009-06-22

Posts: 73

Re: Random system hanging

Well can i test for a PSU defect at home?

also, I'm glad someone else had this problem, I'm thinking about installing 32bit arch because i don't have more than 4 gb of ram so i shouldn't lose THAT much performance right? I'm really hoping it's a software issue for obvious reasons

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Confusion is always the most honest response, and I'm a very honest person

Gen2ly

Member

From: Sevierville, TN

Registered: 2009-03-06

Posts: 1,529

Website

Re: Random system hanging

Judging from what I got so far I'd almost put this on the graphics card.  That's a good PSU and it could be defective but less likely.  The Sparkle brand has been known to have some problems so I'd think I'd start with that.  If you got windows installed (hopefully you do) download ATItool and just run the test for an hour or more and see if you get any problems.  Outlandishly, it could be a linux program that is doing this but possibly already tried this?  If you haven't, keep 'top' and 'iotop' running in a terminal and look at them when you get glitches.

Last edited by Gen2ly (2009-08-27 08:12:42)

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blackfedora

Member

From: USA (East coast usually)

Registered: 2009-06-22

Posts: 73

Re: Random system hanging

I have those running, but the only glitches i have are full system lock ups, how can I access their logs after a full reboot?

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Confusion is always the most honest response, and I'm a very honest person

blackfedora

Member

From: USA (East coast usually)

Registered: 2009-06-22

Posts: 73

Re: Random system hanging

It just froze while the screen was asleep and I was away from the computer, The monitor started blinking that it wasn't receiving any signal. It would seem to me that this would indicated that the GPU is faulty. Could it be anything else? I mean I can't imagine the PSU would cause a freeze when the CPU and GPU were both idling.

Also, I noticed that my monitor isn't the main x display, is that normal or could that be causing an issue.

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Confusion is always the most honest response, and I'm a very honest person

lamberss

Member

Registered: 2009-04-11

Posts: 10

Re: Random system hanging

Well, I just got all my new stuff installed, and I have my FPS back.  But, the crashing has come back as well.  I have been keeping a system monitor open, and it does not give any indications when the crash is going to happen (no increased load, no spike in temperature, etc.).

I'm guessing somehow it is the driver.  I am using Arch64 with the 32bit wine running in a chroot jail.  I'm guessing this means that I won't have any more luck if I downgrade my whole system to arch32?

Also, I have TwinView turned on.  I'm going to see if turning off TwinView helps or not.

lamberss

Member

Registered: 2009-04-11

Posts: 10

Re: Random system hanging

I found some possibly relavent information.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=125591

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=130504

I decided to try downgrading my nvidia drivers to nvidia-173xx (available in extra, I think).  Everything appears to be working now, but I haven't had it going for long enough to be confident that the problem is gone.  It seems to be running longer than it normally does before a crash, but I'm not sure if that's real or placebo.  I'll post back if I get another crash (I'll try to post back anyway, but if I don't get another crash I might not remember).

Anyway, make sure that the 173 driver supports your card before you try this.  (http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/L … dix-a.html).

toad

Member

From: if only I knew

Registered: 2008-12-22

Posts: 1,775

Website

Re: Random system hanging

Just out of interest, do you get this behaviour with a live CD or other OSs as well or is Arch at fault here?

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10wattmindtrip

Member

Registered: 2009-06-18

Posts: 28

Re: Random system hanging

I think it may just be the graphics driver. The reason I think this: I have been having almost exactly the same issues lately. I found that if I watch a long enough video (a regular visitor to fora.tv) the system will just freeze up completely. No logs of the incident are to be found. I haven't tried downgrading to 173.x nvidia drivers yet, but I think I'll give that a shot.

I have a few video cards laying around. I tried my 8800GTS NVidia: same issue. I tried my _other_ 9600GT: Same issue. I tried an _OLD_ Ati radeon card: No issues .. .. yet.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention: It happens in Ubuntu 9.04 also.

Last edited by 10wattmindtrip (2009-08-29 22:08:44)

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which would you choose: A god that never answers you or a society that embraces you?

lamberss

Member

Registered: 2009-04-11

Posts: 10

Re: Random system hanging

Well, it's been a few hours of playing now using the 173xx drivers, and no crashes yet.  I was gone for a good part of the afternoon, but I think I've still tested it long enough that I would have had a crash by now with the 185xx driver.

At any rate, even if it turns out this wasn't a complete solution for me (as it seems right now that it will be), it's still a vast improvement.

I have not checked to see if this happens in any other Linux.  I hate testing things via live CD (it's never as reliable as an installed system IMO), and I don't really have time to do real installs of Fedora and the like.

I decided to try the 173xx driver because that's what Debian stable is using, and I've grown to trust them if they say something is stable.  Anyway, it appears to have worked out in this case.

[Edit]: clarification

Last edited by lamberss (2009-08-30 02:36:41)

pyther

Member

Registered: 2008-01-21

Posts: 1,395

Website

Re: Random system hanging

How does your system freeze? Does the mouse stop working? How about the keyboard? Your problem might be extremely similar to mine.

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blackfedora

Member

From: USA (East coast usually)

Registered: 2009-06-22

Posts: 73

Re: Random system hanging

everything goes non-responsive with nothing reported in any logs. But I recently downgraded to 185 and haven't had an issue yet, but I also haven't started Wine/Wow. oh and I installed arch32 to see if that helped. I'm going to go test it out now on wow...

edit: sorry for the long laspe in replies but I just moved back into my dorm.

Last edited by blackfedora (2009-09-01 01:34:07)

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Confusion is always the most honest response, and I'm a very honest person

pyther

Member

Registered: 2008-01-21

Posts: 1,395

Website

Re: Random system hanging

No problem...

The next time that happens try removing ehci_hcd (kernel module) and see if things work again. Do you have a usb keyboard? When I had the freezes it ended up that my usb subsystem crashed. From some trouble shooting I believe it is related to the nvidia driver. The latest beta driver seems to resolve the issue.

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blackfedora

Member

From: USA (East coast usually)

Registered: 2009-06-22

Posts: 73

Re: Random system hanging

1) where's that kernal module and how do I remove it? I don't think it's a USB issue though as my sound and video lock up as well.

2) which driver? I've tried the 185.18.36 and that failed me.

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Confusion is always the most honest response, and I'm a very honest person

pyther

Member

Registered: 2008-01-21

Posts: 1,395

Website

Re: Random system hanging

rmmod ehci_hcd (to remove the usb 2.0 module)

Currently I am using nvidia-beta 190.25 I don't believe I had my sound lock up and I was able to navigate with my ps/2 keyboard.

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blackfedora

Member

From: USA (East coast usually)

Registered: 2009-06-22

Posts: 73

Re: Random system hanging

just updated to the beta and wow! no crashes no glitches nothing for almost 3 hours of gameplay. I'll give it a week or 2 to make sure everything is ok and then try arch 64 again to see if all is well.

edit: to clarify I just updated to 190.18-pkg1.run , the 32 bit version of 190.18 which I downloaded from the nvidia website and then ran as root

Last edited by blackfedora (2009-09-01 04:40:49)

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Confusion is always the most honest response, and I'm a very honest person

ngsupb

Member

Registered: 2009-07-29

Posts: 57

Website

Re: Random system hanging

Guys, is wow playable on Linux enough at the moment? last time I tried it worked a bit weird for me and  I had low FPS.

10wattmindtrip

Member

Registered: 2009-06-18

Posts: 28

Re: Random system hanging

Guys, is wow playable on Linux enough at the moment? last time I tried it worked a bit weird for me and  I had low FPS.

WoW works great with Wine. My FPS isn't down too much from when I tried windows.. Maybe 10fps difference for me, if that. You won't get, however, much of the graphical 'eye-candy' stuff, like nice shadows (I think that's about the only thing, actually.. I could be wrong).

There is one other problem I have with WoW: When I press W or A or D, the character locks up until I push another button. Really a minor thing though.

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blackfedora

Member

From: USA (East coast usually)

Registered: 2009-06-22

Posts: 73

Re: Random system hanging

Ugh!!!! I thought i was good last night after hours of playing but today I left my computer downloading some files and when I returned I found it unresponsive. It wasn't doing ANY heavy graphics just the DE and WM (not compiz just metacity). Came back to an unresponsive mouse and keyboard I don't know if video or audio was jammed, but since my downloads hadn't finished (they were at 90%) I'm assuming it was a system freeze. What the hell could be causing this? my Mobo, my kernal, my GPU what?!?!

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Confusion is always the most honest response, and I'm a very honest person

blackfedora

Member

From: USA (East coast usually)

Registered: 2009-06-22

Posts: 73

Re: Random system hanging

Would the fact that my whole system, including my sound freezing up indicate that maybe my mobo is bad and not my Nvidia card? or could the Nvidia card/driver cause a kernal panic that would take alsa down as well?

Last edited by blackfedora (2009-09-01 19:46:19)

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Confusion is always the most honest response, and I'm a very honest person

10wattmindtrip

Member

Registered: 2009-06-18

Posts: 28

Re: Random system hanging

I'm having the same issues.. Though, I'm starting to think it's a sound issue and not necessarily a graphics card issue.

I had swapped my graphics cards (even tried an ATI Radeon) and still had the issue.
Under Ubuntu 9.04, the only thing that kills the screen is playing WoW but the system doesn't hang.. just the monitor dies.

So, I switched from OSS to Alsa, same issue.
Turned off all sound, no problems yet, after about 7 hours of continuous uptime.

I then enabled sound again but this time disabled sound with Wine and with WoW, I took off the gxApi "opengl" and switched to Windows 2003 profile... No problems at all, yet.

My board is the ASUS P5N-T Deluxe.

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which would you choose: A god that never answers you or a society that embraces you?