What's a good DE to try?

mag1strate · 2009-09-06 21:21:47

Hey guys,

I've been using linux for about a year now and a few days ago I decided to use arch. I was suprised when looking at the beginners section of the Arch Linux wiki about the amount of different DE. I've tried KDE and Gnome, but I know nothing about the three other main ones: Xfce, openbox, and fluxbox. So I wanted to ask you guys this question, what kind of DE should I install to really get a feeling of what Arch Linux is all about, or what one would be good as a first experience out of the norm of Gnome and KDE.

Thanks guys!

Runiq · 2009-09-06 21:37:16

Openbox and Fluxbox are not DEs, they are "merely" window managers (WMs). I think only Xfce and LXDE are full-fledged DEs (and Gnome and KDE, of course).

Well, how to put it... Arch is about NOT being about any WM/DE at all. In fact, I'd say it isn't about anything particular at all. Look around in the monthly screenshot threads, read up on different WMs (or DEs, but you'll find that lots of people on here are using custom-tailored desktops), and over time, you'll find something you like.

Arch is what you make it.

Welcome.

Edit: Now that sounded like the Eden introductory speech...
Edit2: You might like this.

Last edited by Runiq (2009-09-06 21:42:01)

mag1strate · 2009-09-06 21:52:31

When I look at people with the monthly screenshot contest most of them say they use Openbox and Fluxbox. Do people combine a DE with one of those WM for for those contests? What is a window manager anyway, b/c the beginners article said they can be used as a DE?

Runiq · 2009-09-06 22:02:55

A DE is just a number of applications that work together to give you a full-fledged desktop experience right out of the box, without much tinkering. A window manager is one part of your desktop, the part that lets you move, rename, minimize, hide windows. Some people don't need much more, but there are lots of apps out there which add some functionality to the basic premise of managing windows: Panels, system trays, docks, system monitors, file managers, etc. Look here to get a brief overview on some of these.

A panel keeps your opened windows neatly organized, think of the Windows task bar.
System trays display system messages that might be of interest - volume control, IM notifications, new mail, new updates...
System monitors display information about your computer's internals, mostly in text or graphical form (temperature, CPU load, memory usage, free disk space...)
File managers do exactly that, they let you manage files and provide neat icons for folders and files.

Of course, these aren't the only things you can use to spice up your desktop.

The obligatory edit: You can, of course, change the default window manager of a DE. E.g. before I came to Arch, I used Gnome with Openbox as a window manager.

Last edited by Runiq (2009-09-06 22:05:08)

whordijk · 2009-09-06 22:05:56

mag1strate wrote:

When I look at people with the monthly screenshot contest most of them say they use Openbox and Fluxbox. Do people combine a DE with one of those WM for for those contests? What is a window manager anyway, b/c the beginners article said they can be used as a DE?

DE stands for "Desktop Environment", which consists of a Window Manager appended by various tools and applets. A Window Manager does only what it name implies: it manages windows. By setting up your system with a DE, you'll have a rich environment fresh from the install. If you choose to install only a WM, you'll have to make your own selections on what tools you will be using. The two meet somewhere in the middle: you can install a WM and build your own DE from there, or you can install a DE and strip it from tools ou don't need.

raf_kig · 2009-09-06 22:06:36

A window manager is a program that manages your windows, move and resize them etc. It maybe also draws borders around them and gives you nice buttons to maximize/close windows.
KDE is using kwin as windowmanager, Gnome defaults to metacity.

There are a lot of different approaches to managing windows, for a more detailed description of the concepts have a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_manager

ozar · 2009-09-06 22:43:02

In the end, you'll have to try each DE and WM to know for sure what you like and don't like because that's the only way to know for sure. I've used nearly all of them in the past but still find myself switching from one to the other whenever boredom strikes.

Do let us know what you decide on.

Acecero · 2009-09-07 00:01:02

mag1strate wrote:

what kind of DE should I install to really get a feeling of what Arch Linux is all about

Personally it's just my opinion, but I would have to say that Openbox follows more closely to Arch's philosophy. This is not to say you "should" use Openbox or any other DE/WM, rather you're free to choose whatever like, which is what Arch is all about.

mag1strate · 2009-09-07 00:14:59

Am I able to use a WM without a DE? Or is it alot harder to use with a DE?

Acecero · 2009-09-07 00:18:56

mag1strate wrote:

Am I able to use a WM without a DE? Or is it alot harder to use with a DE?

Yes. You can you run a WM separately and have other applications running such as (previously stated) panel, system trays, systems monitors, filemanagers, and etc. to enhance your field of use. Not much harder to use with a DE either.

Last edited by Acecero (2009-09-07 00:19:55)

userlander · 2009-09-07 01:07:16

I'd venture a guess to say that the vast majority of Arch users probably do not use a full-blown DE (meaning mostly KDE or Gnome - a lot use XFCE4).

Openbox is a great WM to start with, imo -- very easy to get up and running with the built-in themes, built in configuration manager, and optional menumaker. It's fairly transparent and "stays out of the way," while also "keeping it simple" (the Arch philosophy). Getting up and running is as easy as reading the wiki.

If that's too stripped down and you need more desktop support, try XFCE4. It has a lot of advantages of KDE/Gnome while being a little less resource intensive.

Ultimately though, Arch linux is all about whatever *you* want it to be. You have the freedom to do and make it whatever you want. It's your experience, so try a lot of different things and decide what works best for you.

Wintervenom · 2009-09-07 01:44:49

Try them all, and then pick the one you feel most comfortable with.

Last edited by Wintervenom (2009-09-07 01:45:26)

mag1strate · 2009-09-07 01:59:03

Am I able to change my DE or WM on the fly? Like if I don't like one I can change ot another one whenever I want?

&#32 Greg · 2009-09-07 02:04:02

Absolutely. All you need to do is change your argument for xinit, or edit .xinitrc.

ozar · 2009-09-07 02:06:11

mag1strate wrote:

Am I able to change my DE or WM on the fly? Like if I don't like one I can change ot another one whenever I want?

Some users mix them on one system, but I personally don't like doing it because weird issues can sometimes present themselves as a result of doing so. That said, it's really a matter of personal preference. The simple answer is yes, you can.

mag1strate · 2009-09-07 02:32:57

Cool thanks you guys for all your help!

bernarcher · 2009-09-07 04:46:20

mag1strate wrote:

Am I able to change my DE or WM on the fly? Like if I don't like one I can change ot another one whenever I want?

This is what I do to start an alternative WM/DE from the console (set as aliases in my ~/.bashrc file):

# Start Gnome
alias _G='xinit /usr/bin/ck-launch-session gnome-session'
# Start IceWM
alias _I='xinit /usr/bin/icewm-session'
# Start IceWM
alias _K='xinit /usr/bin/ck-launch-session startkde'

Standard is openbox, however, started from ~/.xinitrc as usual:

# Openbox
exec /usr/bin/ck-launch-session openbox-session

Acecero · 2009-09-07 05:43:12

Hey that's not a bad idea bernarcher, that's awesome!

mag1strate · 2009-09-07 16:26:15

Hey guys thank you all for your replies, I really do appreciate them! I ended up choosing xfce4 becasue Openbox doesn't seem to be working for some reason of PyXDG not being installed and I couldn't find a package to install. Anyway xfce is really nice and alot more configureable then the other DE's I've tried!

Peasantoid · 2009-09-07 16:48:41

I would recommend a tiling WM, just because it'll get you more acquainted with the whole 'minimalism' aspect.

mag1strate · 2009-09-07 17:29:16

what is a tiling WM?

sHyLoCk · 2009-09-07 17:47:26

mag1strate wrote:

what is a tiling WM?

Check this out.

Personally I like openbox, and now I use LXDE with gentoo. It's great. I recently converted my ArchBox to kde4.3, it's beautiful! I have tried xmonad, pekwm,etc etc, but I feel comfortable with openbox more, hence LXDE.

Runiq · 2009-09-07 18:04:52

mag1strate wrote:

what is a tiling WM?

A tiling WM (usually) doesn't put windows on top of each other (that's what a stacking WM like openbox, fluxbox, metacity, xfwm etc. would do), so every open window is visible at any time. That's the basic premise. There are lots of examples for those in the monthly screenshot threads.

For example, dwm (pretty much the simplest tiling wm) has a few predefined layout and arranges windows according to those layouts: In the standard layout, it makes the window you're currently working on the biggest while making windows that aren't important ATM smaller.

Last edited by Runiq (2009-09-07 18:05:25)

.:B:. · 2009-09-07 18:06:02

Guys, I think he'll be happy if he gets something up and running altogether. Quit recommmending the geeky nec plus ultra when he is struggling with the very basics.

&#32 Greg · 2009-09-07 18:08:16

Well, he's asking about things to try out

Arch Linux

#1 2009-09-06 21:21:47

What's a good DE to try?

#2 2009-09-06 21:37:16

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#3 2009-09-06 21:52:31

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#4 2009-09-06 22:02:55

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#5 2009-09-06 22:05:56

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#8 2009-09-07 00:01:02

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