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#1 2009-10-17 06:44:10

zoqaeski
Member
From: /earth/australia/.
Registered: 2009-09-30
Posts: 132

Advice on upgrading from Ubuntu to Arch from scratch

Hello all

This is my first post, but I've read the forums for a couple of months or so. This is a particularly long post, so in short my questions are
* How does Arch differ from Ubuntu?
* How is the hardware support for Arch, especially in comparison to Ubuntu?
* What are other people's experiences in switching from another distro to Arch?

I've been using Ubuntu since sometime in 2005, but lately I've found it to be somewhat lacking in some of the more extreme customisations and up-to-date software (i.e. Jaunty still uses Firefox 3.0.x). Sometime over the summer university break (I'm from Australia, so that's December-January-February here), I plan to upgrade my machine to something that has significantly more grunt than my existing setup, and in the meantime I'm just trying to find out as much as I can to ensure that I build the best system for my requirements. The main catch is that my existing computer is so underpowered, I'm not entirely sure what sorts of hardware targets I should aim to save up for, given that I want to be able to experiment with a lot of things that I'm currently unable to do, such as audio editing and high-end vector graphics editing, but my rough aim is get a machine from which I'll get about 4 years out of before I feel the need to upgrade again.

As this will be a brand-new machine, I am planning to install Arch Linux from the outset, rather than take the risk of messing up my current (heavily-customised) Ubuntu install. Upgrading to Arch is very tempting, but due primarily to a lack of time and external storage space, I've decided not to do it until I have a second machine that I can use in case things go pear-shaped. (I had a serious series of malconfigured packages in Ubuntu which broke upon install apparently due to one of the install scripts being changed from the Debian version to a GNU version upstream, and I suspect I've still got bits of packages lying around. That took at least a month to sort out 0_o )

How much does Arch differ from Ubuntu in day-to-day operations? It seems to be much more terminal-oriented, and apparently the main difference between it and other GNU/Linux distributions is the BSD-style init. I'm not afraid of the terminal or rc-style scripts, having avoided GUI sysadmin programs for several months now after learning many useful commands, because the GUI just seems... slow. I've probably overdone my Openbox keybindings (!) and every now and then I discover that my ~/.vimrc has sections I never knew existed...

What sorts of hardware should I aim for? From my experience, hardware support with Linux seems to have gotten much better in the last several years, but I've only ever used Ubuntu so I'm assuming they added support for a lot of things which may or may not exist in other more DIY distributions. Most of the time things I've used have worked out-of-the-box, so my experience here is probably very limited. All of my previous computers have been virtually off-the-shelf machines from Dell; this particular computer is a Dell Dimension 5150 with: Pentium D 2x2.8 GHz; Intel 945G Express motherboard; 1 GiB DDR2 RAM; 160 GiB SATA hard drive; and on-board graphics and sound (it came with a Radeon graphics card but there were no drivers for Linux back in 2006). My current plan for my next computer is to get something resembling: an Intel i7; >6 GiB DDR3 RAM; >1.5 TiB hard disk storage space for documents and data (with a smaller drive for the OS); and I'm not sure of the specs of the graphics card or sound card I should invest in (or even if I would need them at all). What would other users who currently perform similar tasks (audio and high-end graphics editing) recommend?

What are other people's experiences from switching from an entry-level distro like Ubuntu to a DIY one like Arch? Obviously there's a learning curve, but what kinds of practises can I develop on my Ubuntu machine to make the transition as smooth as possible? I think I'm making a sensible decision in starting from scratch with a brand new machine rather than diving into the deep end with the risk of messing things up badly, and I want to get as much information as possible on building a computer and setting it up with Arch to get the most out of the whole process.

Cheers for any and all help I can get =D

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#2 2009-10-17 06:54:38

jasonwryan
Anarchist
From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 30,424
Website

Re: Advice on upgrading from Ubuntu to Arch from scratch

The Arch documentation is so thorough that you have very little to be concerned about. As for hardware, once you have narrowed down your options, just search the forums for comments about any issues that others have encountered.

Welcome to the forums - you are going to have fun...


Arch + dwm   •   Mercurial repos  •   Surfraw

Registered Linux User #482438

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#3 2009-10-17 06:57:59

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 7,354

Re: Advice on upgrading from Ubuntu to Arch from scratch

zoqaeski wrote:

Hello all

I was originally going to do a snippy 'Read The Funny Wiki', but the questions seem particularly well-posed here.

zoqaeski wrote:

I've been using Ubuntu since sometime in 2005, but lately I've found it to be somewhat lacking in some of the more extreme customisations and up-to-date software (i.e. Jaunty still uses Firefox 3.0.x). Sometime over the summer university break (I'm from Australia, so that's December-January-February here), I plan to upgrade my machine to something that has significantly more grunt than my existing setup, and in the meantime I'm just trying to find out as much as I can to ensure that I build the best system for my requirements. The main catch is that my existing computer is so underpowered, I'm not entirely sure what sorts of hardware targets I should aim to save up for, given that I want to be able to experiment with a lot of things that I'm currently unable to do, such as audio editing and high-end vector graphics editing, but my rough aim is get a machine from which I'll get about 4 years out of before I feel the need to upgrade again.

As this will be a brand-new machine, I am planning to install Arch Linux from the outset, rather than take the risk of messing up my current (heavily-customised) Ubuntu install. Upgrading to Arch is very tempting, but due primarily to a lack of time and external storage space, I've decided not to do it until I have a second machine that I can use in case things go pear-shaped. (I had a serious series of malconfigured packages in Ubuntu which broke upon install apparently due to one of the install scripts being changed from the Debian version to a GNU version upstream, and I suspect I've still got bits of packages lying around. That took at least a month to sort out 0_o )

First thing to note, then, this is unlikely to happen on Arch. The problem with Ubuntu is the further you deviate from the standard install (using ppas and compile-from-source or self-made debs, even using debian repos), the more likely you will hopelessly bork your system. Arch, on the other had, has ABS and the AUR, and the packages are very standardized.

zoqaeski wrote:

How much does Arch differ from Ubuntu in day-to-day operations? It seems to be much more terminal-oriented, and apparently the main difference between it and other GNU/Linux distributions is the BSD-style init. I'm not afraid of the terminal or rc-style scripts, having avoided GUI sysadmin programs for several months now after learning many useful commands, because the GUI just seems... slow. I've probably overdone my Openbox keybindings (!) and every now and then I discover that my ~/.vimrc has sections I never knew existed...

I disagree its more terminal-oriented, not by much really. I use gnome and compiz, so I basically use the terminal for my updates (pacman/yaourt) and compiling. Otherwise, assuming you're going to use openbox anyhow, not much difference from Ubuntu aside from Synaptic vs pacman.

zoqaeski wrote:

What sorts of hardware should I aim for? From my experience, hardware support with Linux seems to have gotten much better in the last several years, but I've only ever used Ubuntu so I'm assuming they added support for a lot of things which may or may not exist in other more DIY distributions. Most of the time things I've used have worked out-of-the-box, so my experience here is probably very limited. All of my previous computers have been virtually off-the-shelf machines from Dell; this particular computer is a Dell Dimension 5150 with: Pentium D 2x2.8 GHz; Intel 945G Express motherboard; 1 GiB DDR2 RAM; 160 GiB SATA hard drive; and on-board graphics and sound (it came with a Radeon graphics card but there were no drivers for Linux back in 2006). My current plan for my next computer is to get something resembling: an Intel i7; >6 GiB DDR3 RAM; >1.5 TiB hard disk storage space for documents and data (with a smaller drive for the OS); and I'm not sure of the specs of the graphics card or sound card I should invest in (or even if I would need them at all). What would other users who currently perform similar tasks (audio and high-end graphics editing) recommend?

Sounds good. I would go for an nvidia card, overall they just have the best drivers around, though not open-source and free... If you want to do audio, get a good audio card, m-audio seems to have a good rep. By audio I mean stuff which needs RT kernel and JACK, etc. If its just normal recordings I guess the builtin HDA-intel is fine. Its what I use, anyway, for amateur recordings, though I use RT and JACK anyway....

Oh, and Ubuntu, as far as I know, does NOT do any special hardware support that linux in general does not have. If it works in Ubuntu it'll work with other up-to-date distros. Hardware support is mainly a kernel thing, not a distro-specific thing. Ubuntu just selects packages, the only 'development' they really do is the 'by-the-way' stuff, like those OSD displays,...

zoqaeski wrote:

What are other people's experiences from switching from an entry-level distro like Ubuntu to a DIY one like Arch? Obviously there's a learning curve, but what kinds of practises can I develop on my Ubuntu machine to make the transition as smooth as possible? I think I'm making a sensible decision in starting from scratch with a brand new machine rather than diving into the deep end with the risk of messing things up badly, and I want to get as much information as possible on building a computer and setting it up with Arch to get the most out of the whole process.

Its not too hard. Just be willing to learn, always google/wiki before asking on the forums/irc (recently quite a few jokers have gotten flamed because they just wanted their work done by others on IRC).

zoqaeski wrote:

Cheers for any and all help I can get big_smile

Have fun. Please read the Beginner's Guide first, it covers a lot you'll need to know that no1 will want to tell you (since its already covered).


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#4 2009-10-18 06:35:22

*david_a*
Member
Registered: 2009-06-19
Posts: 80

Re: Advice on upgrading from Ubuntu to Arch from scratch

To echo a comment already made:
Look through old messages here, and learn about any hardware that has frequent un-resolved complaints. Choose something other than that.

Otherwise, just get the best machine you can afford at the time and be done with it. Every time, something better will come out right after you buy, or the prices will go down on something that you should have had, or whatever. Ignore that inevitable complaint, and just choose the best you can at the time.

(If you make a specialty of any particular part of your machine - audio, video, or whatever - then make sure that part is going to be reliable. Cutting-edge is nice if you can afford it of course, but not having to worry if it's going to work or not, is far more important.)

Last edited by *david_a* (2009-10-18 06:39:56)

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#5 2009-10-18 08:57:38

Meirion
Member
Registered: 2009-10-04
Posts: 26

Re: Advice on upgrading from Ubuntu to Arch from scratch

I moved from Ubuntu to Arch about a month ago - zero problems. Just read the documentation and work through each step and you'll be fine.

If you're going to get a computer with 1.5TB of disk space then have you considered using LVM2? That might help you manage it better? Again the arch lvm2 installation page on the wiki is a great help.

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#6 2009-10-18 09:54:24

openess
Member
From: sweden
Registered: 2009-10-18
Posts: 24
Website

Re: Advice on upgrading from Ubuntu to Arch from scratch

I recently gotten rid of ubuntu on my main computer and installed Arch. What I've found is that even though all my hardware is supported, it's not as 'out of the box' as it was i ubuntu. For instance I had to install several packages in order for my printer to work, as opposed to in ubuntu where it just worked. It's those little things that make the difference. But on the other hand having my printer work out of the box in ubuntu means that the first few years of my ubuntu experience I must have had these packages installed for no reason..

For me the biggest difference was going from gnome to fluxbox (being an old fluxbox user on debian, that wasn't much of a problem) and you won't have that problem if you don't change your windowmanager wink


Happy computergeek gaming girl. And those are analog games, mind you, not analog computers though.

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#7 2009-10-18 12:01:30

graysky
Wiki Maintainer
From: :wq
Registered: 2008-12-01
Posts: 10,595
Website

Re: Advice on upgrading from Ubuntu to Arch from scratch

I switched from Ubuntu to Arch.  Transition was a little bumpy/learning curve.  I'm soooo happy I switched as you will be as well.  Just follow the beginner's guide on the wiki, copy over the parts of your /home/user and enjoy.  Pacman is soooo much better than apt-get or aptitude and software for Arch MUCH more recent.  See http://www.oswatershed.org/


CPU-optimized Linux-ck packages @ Repo-ck  • AUR packagesZsh and other configs

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#8 2009-10-22 01:31:16

kuadhual
Member
Registered: 2009-06-24
Posts: 13

Re: Advice on upgrading from Ubuntu to Arch from scratch

Ubuntu was my last distro before Arch. Now I'm using Archlinux with KDE-Mod 4, so it's not too terminal-oriented even though for administrative task I still relly on vim. With Arch you'll learn much more about linux (than ubuntu) faster (than, say... gentoo?) .
I got a couple tips:
Just in case something happen to my system that prevent me from browsing for sollution, I got wiki.archlinux.org offline copy.  (thank God I did)
Don't go blindly update your packages. After you got  the list of packages to update, check this forum and the news section. Especially for important packages like Kernel or X  and it's driver. (Learned my lesson there)

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#9 2009-10-22 02:28:40

Mardoct
Member
Registered: 2009-08-17
Posts: 208

Re: Advice on upgrading from Ubuntu to Arch from scratch

zoqaeski wrote:

* How is the hardware support for Arch, especially in comparison to Ubuntu?

The same. Drivers are kernel specific, and any Linux distribution, by definition, uses the Linux kernel.


The human being created civilization not because of willingness but of a need to be assimilated into higher orders of structure and meaning.

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#10 2009-10-28 02:40:14

zoqaeski
Member
From: /earth/australia/.
Registered: 2009-09-30
Posts: 132

Re: Advice on upgrading from Ubuntu to Arch from scratch

Thanks for the replies. I don't think I'll have many difficulties making the switch, provided I start off from scratch with a new machine.

I've used Openbox for two-to-three months now, having found something better and faster than Gnome; and none of the programs I use on a regular basis are the defaults that came with Ubuntu. I think the most difficult bit of setting up an Arch configuration with the same arrangement as this machine will be figuring out what to install so I don't clutter up my system with things I never use...

(At the moment I've installed Gnome and Xfce and Openbox, and am running a hybrid of all of them; Thunar, Xfce4t-Terminal replaced Nautilus and Gnome-terminal, Openbox replaced Metacity and the Gnome-menu, Firefox has Vimperator and the main toolbars disabled, Quod Libet replaced Rhythmbox, abcde replaced Sound-Juicer, Vim is 7.2.x (?) with a >400 line ~/.vimrc, Emacs was compiled from source because the latest version has xft support, and so on...)

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