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#1 2009-11-11 10:21:00

xtony
Member
Registered: 2009-11-11
Posts: 14

Arch kill my laptop!!!

Hello,

I'd like to report something bad happened to my laptop. My intention is not to blame arch or linux world. This is just a caution when you run linux on your laptop. I'm not quite sure what is the cause but I will investigate it when my laptop returned. Here is my story.

I bought my laptop 2.5 years ago. It was preinstalled with vista. here is its specs:
- Acer Aspire 5580
- Core 2 Duo 1.66Ghz
- Geforce 7300Go
- 2GB DDR2-667
- 250 Gb HDD
- the rests are not important

Vista was replaced by Ubuntu since the first day i got my laptop. I lived happy with it since then. About 10 months ago, I moved to Arch. I'm happier with arch. But, since then, I have to return my laptop for repair 3 times (4 including this time), each time ended up with mainboard replacement (And I think I'll get a replacement this time too). The problem is alway related with the video card. When you turn it on, there are HDD & LED activities like normal, but nothing on the screen. At first, I thought it was acer fault (they gave me bad mainboards). But for this time, there were signs before it's broken. About 2 weeks ago (~2months since the last replacement), my screen statred to flickering when first turn on. It stays like that for a couple minutes and then back normal. And then, today, my laptop crashed twice. The second crash broke my laptop with the same symptom, nothing on the screen. At the first crash I can turn it on and work as normal for hours and I started to investigate the problem since then. After hours of investigation, I think it is heating problem. Actually, I feel since the very first time I installed arch that my laptop runs hotter. The cooling fan run very slow and will only blow hard when it gets VERY hot. I dont know if this is normal and I don't remember how it works in Ubuntu. So, I can't be conclusive.

There is a thing that I should note, I always use a workaround to run the video card in the full speed mode. This is for solving the black screen bug in the nvidia driver. I don't know if this is related but this also applied with ubuntu (without problem for year).

My last suggestion is, check your thermal tripping in the ACPI or find a way to better understanding how your laptop fan is controlled.

Please share your experience here. I'd like to here from somebody who have the same problem.

Tony

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#2 2009-11-11 10:42:09

wuischke
Member
From: Suisse Romande
Registered: 2007-01-06
Posts: 630

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

Geforce 7300Go

I remember rumours (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new … -defective) about problems with certain Nvidia chips. Although the guy writing this is a bit...particular, there appears to be a real problem affecting these when not cooled well enough.  (At least that's what Dell did to fight this problem, if you can believe the same guy: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new … ive-nvidia )

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#3 2009-11-11 10:46:15

xtony
Member
Registered: 2009-11-11
Posts: 14

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

wuischke wrote:

Geforce 7300Go

I remember rumours (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new … -defective) about problems with certain Nvidia chips. Although the guy writing this is a bit...particular, there appears to be a real problem affecting these when not cooled well enough.  (At least that's what Dell did to fight this problem, if you can believe the same guy: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/new … ive-nvidia )

Yes, but I think that is the problem with 8xxx series. I have 2 friends with 2 brands of laptop and the same 8400gs. Their laptop video card broken in just one year.

What I suspect now is how ACPI control my fan in arch. hmm

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#4 2009-11-11 12:38:14

stojic
Member
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Registered: 2008-02-24
Posts: 51

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

My Acer Aspire 9300 with 7300Go died a similar death at 2 years of age - screen randomly blank, sometimes beeping "I have no video card" signal on boot, then one day screen wouldn't switch on anymore (laptop still boots). I attributed it to what wuischke mentioned. I didn't try fixing it though. It was a poorly built laptop, with a hot running CPU, very bad heat dissipation system and a lousy fan that got loose and noisy pretty soon.

I find it strange that your mainboard needs to be replaced that often. Are you sure they are actually replacing the mainboard and not just welding the nvidia chip back onto it (assuming that it really is a 7300Go problem)? IMO, a computer should be able to run 24/7 at 100% utilization for the whole length of its warranty period, but most laptops aren't built for this, many of them can't even sustain CPU at full speed for longer than several minutes because of lousy cooling.

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#5 2009-11-11 14:32:52

xtony
Member
Registered: 2009-11-11
Posts: 14

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

stojic,

did you use linux with your acer laptop? I'm quite sure acer's product is poorly build. The GPU is mounted to heatsink with heat transfer tape instead of mounted directly to the heatsink with thermal compound. If it's returned, I would do something to improve this. To me, the fan acts very strange to me with Arch. I don't remember how it work under ubuntu. I'll try to fine a way to adjust this. Anyway, I'm planning to buy a new laptop soon. smile

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#6 2009-11-11 23:30:55

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 7,354

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

Acer's quality isn't anywhere near top-notch. In the language of my country ACER becomes 'Aku CEpat Rosak', or 'I break fast'.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#7 2009-11-12 02:09:28

xtony
Member
Registered: 2009-11-11
Posts: 14

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

ngoonee,

Yes, same here. lol

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#8 2009-11-12 02:21:59

takedown
Member
From: Argentina
Registered: 2008-08-31
Posts: 219

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

Can you change the topic title?
is a bit absurd

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#9 2009-11-12 07:35:32

stojic
Member
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Registered: 2008-02-24
Posts: 51

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

xtony wrote:

stojic,

did you use linux with your acer laptop? I'm quite sure acer's product is poorly build. The GPU is mounted to heatsink with heat transfer tape instead of mounted directly to the heatsink with thermal compound. If it's returned, I would do something to improve this. To me, the fan acts very strange to me with Arch. I don't remember how it work under ubuntu. I'll try to fine a way to adjust this. Anyway, I'm planning to buy a new laptop soon. smile

I did use linux with it (it also died under arch wink), but I had cpu scaling enabled and gpu produced noticeable heat only during gaming. Fan was behaving normally, aside from being loose and noisy (fan rotor was hitting its compartment most of the time). So I don't think that using linux had anything to do with it, it would probably die sooner under eg vista because of higher cpu load and hardware accelerated GUI.

About acer build quality, I've also seen some nicely built ones - I have another old acer laptop that is still running, cdrom and hard disk died after 5-6 years which is kind of expected. I put hdd from this acer that died into that old acer and it still runs arch nicely. So, it's a mixed bag, but their build quality varies too much to recommend their laptops.

Anyway, I now run lenovo R500 as my main system, it has very cool cpu and gpu (intel core2 duo and intel gma 4500) and excellent heat dissipation. It runs completely quiet even under load. Heat, noise and build quality were my main concerns when buying this laptop, I guess I got too tired of fan sounding like it's grinding coffee and video cards dying on me big_smile.

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#10 2009-11-26 11:52:13

charti
Member
From: Germany, Erfurt
Registered: 2009-10-30
Posts: 4

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

I had the same problem with my 8600 m... I cant use the nvidia driver cause of crashing xserver and flickering... but it was the same problem with windows os... I got it solved by updating my bios... asus (I got a asus notebook) said that there was some problems with the voltage management of the nvidia chip

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#11 2009-11-26 12:22:13

xtony
Member
Registered: 2009-11-11
Posts: 14

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

Hello,

I got my laptop back now (after 2 weeks sad). I would say this thread should be closed with my warning...

PLEASE BE AWARE OF ARCH'S THERMAL MANAGEMENT!!!

Now, I'm quite sure that there is something wrong with arch's fan control. It works differently in vista. This is just my final words, believe me or leave it. From now, I'll monitor fan speed and thermal activities on my laptop. Here are links you may interest:

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fan_control
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lm_sensors

Good luck. I'm going to be happy with arch again. smile roll

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#12 2009-11-26 14:07:01

tigrmesh
IRC Op
From: Florida, US
Registered: 2007-12-11
Posts: 794

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

Please mark this thread as [solved] (edit your first post).  That way, others can find the solution you found.

Thank you.

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#13 2009-11-26 17:00:06

xtony
Member
Registered: 2009-11-11
Posts: 14

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

Plus,

This is not actually arch's problem. Have a look here.

http://help.lockergnome.com/linux/22-re … 87365.html

good luck

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#14 2009-11-26 17:32:32

takedown
Member
From: Argentina
Registered: 2008-08-31
Posts: 219

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

If you really believe that the problem of temperatures and poor quality of construction of the notebook is linux problem, you should know, that ArchLinux is not responsible.
At most, the power management tools will have a somewhat lower level than in windows (I do not see it, but it would be your point of view), and it still exceeds the limits of ArchLinux.

On the other side would do well to understand that, as manufacturers do not give serious and responsible support in linux, development rests with the community, day to day work to improve things, avoiding obstacles that manufacturers impose absurd.

bye

Last edited by takedown (2009-11-26 17:35:47)

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#15 2009-11-26 17:35:50

arkham
Member
From: Stockholm
Registered: 2008-10-26
Posts: 516
Website

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

From the title:

Arch kill my laptop!!!

From the first post:

My intention is not to blame arch or linux world

roll


"I'm Winston Wolfe. I solve problems."

~ Need moar games? [arch-games] ~ [aurcheck] AUR haz updates? ~

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#16 2009-11-26 18:35:17

xtony
Member
Registered: 2009-11-11
Posts: 14

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

takedown, arkham,

I really mean that. I'm still arch user and will always be. Just need a little bit more concern. cool
Anyway, How can i close this thread???

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#17 2009-11-26 18:37:35

.:B:.
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2006-11-26
Posts: 5,819
Website

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

You can't. May I suggest pick a more fitting topic title next time wink.


Got Leenucks? :: Arch: Power in simplicity :: Get Counted! Registered Linux User #392717 :: Blog thingy

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#18 2009-11-26 19:25:36

lilsirecho
Veteran
Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

Perhaps you can EDIT the first post with the edit option on lower right of the post and mark it as solved( also consider to change the title at that time to reflect the failure mode of your computer...not archlinux).


Prediction...This year will be a very odd year!
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#19 2009-11-28 09:08:14

buddabrod
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-02-25
Posts: 220

Re: Arch kill my laptop!!!

You broke it yourself by using that "workaround" to put the graphics card to high power mode.
So dont complain and think about it next time. It's pure logic that it creates much more heat afterwards tongue If your bios doesnt control your fans correctly, it's your job to do that.

My thinkpad doesnt have that issue, the fan just starts when my nvidia gets about 55°C or when my cpu reaches ~52°C. That does barely ever happen..

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