Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

dumas · 2009-11-12 10:23:26

Hi all,

I personally always like and use minimalistic (floating) WM. I use a minimalistic fluxbox setup, and use urxvt for pretty much everything. However, I always thought Compiz potentially could bring more than eye-candy. If the developers are careful in decision making, I think Compiz can use compositing to bring additional productivity, to my taste at least. This week, after trying Compiz again, I think Compiz finally allow as much (or little) eye candy as you like, and enables productive workflow given by composition. I'm not sure if fellow Archers are aware of this improvement, and I just thought I'd share my experience.

In my opinion, one of the most potentially productive feature of Compiz is the scale addon. I think this is "borrowed" from Mac's expose? To me, it means I can effectively select or monitor all windows, and is more efficient than a taskbar or those windows lists, mostly because scale gives you the visual information about each particular window. Perhaps tiling WM lovers have their solutions that maximizes their workflow, but personally I prefer a floating WM to a tiling one. Compiz has a simple but fairly effective window placement algorithm, by trying not to have new windows overlap, and place them in edges and corners. Compiz has the feature from I think OpenBox and pekwm, which stretches a window in all four directions until they hit an edge. Again, tiling WM advocates probably has nothing to gain here, but for people who like floating WMs, these windows operations are probably good enough for day to day use.

Compiz now allows eye candy as an option, but I find I can turn them all off if I like, and I mean all, and I doubt too many who try will disagree. For example, in the Alt+Tab thingy, it is simple to configure Compiz to be non-intrusive while presenting a pop-up window list after a small time lag. The fanciful shrinking of the whole desktop while Alt+Tabbing is optional. (I'm not sure who wants that!)

I use Compiz as a standalone WM on my eeepc, with the 7.9" inch screen. I find I can free up additional screen space compared to fluxbox, because I don't need a taskbar anymore. I just use the Alt+Tab thingy and scale to select windows, and I find that very productive and enjoyable. The magnifying glass is also somewhat helpful for such a small screen. Also, the last few times I tried Compiz, there were always some cheap bugs, although I don't recall any particular ones. This time, I can't find any. The only problem I run into is that I'm trying out some simple OpenGL programming, which runs in fluxbox, but now in Compiz it doesn't. At this point, I don't bother fixing it yet.

Overall, I am very satisfied with Compiz, and will use it in all my computers. I think it is now possible to configure Compiz to be a minimalistic WM while gaining efficiency through compositing. All eye candy is optional. While tiling WM lovers probably have nothing to gain from Compiz, floating WM users, for example *Box users, might find it enjoyable and useful.

pseup · 2009-11-12 11:16:08

I agree. I think Compiz gets a bad wrap from all the videos and screenshots floating around with everything possible turned on, which is total overkill and makes it look rubbish.

I haven't used Compiz in a while now, but when I did I found myself disabling almost everything. I have no need for most of the plugins, cube/sphere/whatever they have these days, cheesy animations and what not. But once you turn off all 'junk' it is a nice window manager, the emerald decorator is unmatched imo and a number of plugins have great functionality.

I tried standalone for a bit, but found that the desktop-menu solution at the time was quite slow spawning which bugged me to no end, and there was some problems with background images and transparent docks etc. I eventually settled for XFCE + Compiz for a *Box like environment + some polish.

Since PekWM and Flux don't want to behave with xcompmgr for me now, and I have some apps I'm fiddling with I need to test in floating + composited window manager I might just revisit Compiz standalone

sand_man · 2009-11-12 11:16:27

Completely agree. I'm using compiz standalone right now. I usually switch between compiz and openbox.
IMO, compiz = openbox with all the eye candy you desire

toxygen · 2009-11-12 16:07:49

+1 for compiz. Even though I use kde(mod3) for some things, the WM is compiz, most effects are off, but I dig how it handles transparency (trailfocus), window placement, animations, etc. never used the scale add-on but having just tried it, i will be from now on

i would say compiz standalone, or compiz + features of your favorite DE make for the best environment. I've used kde+compiz since i first heard of compiz.

iBertus · 2009-11-12 21:31:29

I've replaced kwin with compiz+kde4-window-decorator in my KDE4 setup. It's much faster than kwin with effects enabled and seems to be more stable. IMHO, KDE4 + compiz + QtCurve is almost a perfect Linux DE. I'm really happy with the way KDE4 is heading. It's much better than GNOME 2.2X and KDE 3.X in terms of interface design. I thought that GNOME was too minimalistic and KDE3 too cluttered. KDE4 is just right.

m4co · 2010-01-01 21:24:22

Nice! Currently I'm looking for a new wm and I might settle with compiz.

I have the same impression that you have. I have here xfce + compiz but xfce is being used just for the power manager and panel.
Everything else is compiz, all the way.

What I use the most is alt+tab and viewports switch, alt + N goes to desktop N (with a nice transition effect).
Things like that made me very used to this. When I'm working I'm changing and moving things around all the time.

I don't like the dependencies that compiz have though, so I will give it a try others wm and see if I can be as productive as I am with compiz.

That is the requisite for me in a minimal wm now : productivity.

Last edited by m4co (2010-01-01 21:25:16)

x0rg · 2010-01-01 21:44:04

yeah I kinda agree, I would easily switch to compiz-standalone if I would be still using openbox.
Nowadays I use pekwm and I I'm loving it. The simple config files, the straightforward autoproperties, autogrouping.
Does compiz have per-app settings and tabbing? And what right-click menu do you use? Is compiz-deskmenu useable? What's with the keybindings? Do I have to use xkeybind?

pogeymanz · 2010-01-01 23:26:55

x0rg wrote:

yeah I kinda agree, I would easily switch to compiz-standalone if I would be still using openbox.
Nowadays I use pekwm and I I'm loving it. The simple config files, the straightforward autoproperties, autogrouping.
Does compiz have per-app settings and tabbing? And what right-click menu do you use? Is compiz-deskmenu useable? What's with the keybindings? Do I have to use xkeybind?

Yes, compiz has per-app settings and tabbing.
Compiz-deskmenu is useable, but as mentioned above, it doesn't draw instantly like in OB and PekWM because it's calling an externel program.
In the compiz config manager you can set keybindings, etc. No need for xkeybind.

I love Compiz standalone. Scale is great. So is Expo. I have a few per-app rules, but I mostly use it for those two plugins. I also have minimize animation enabled, mostly for the shade animation.

It honestly doesn't use that much memory either (about 30MB more than Openbox on my machine (1GB)).

pogeymanz · 2010-01-01 23:27:38

m4co wrote:

Nice! Currently I'm looking for a new wm and I might settle with compiz.
I have the same impression that you have. I have here xfce + compiz but xfce is being used just for the power manager and panel.
Everything else is compiz, all the way.
What I use the most is alt+tab and viewports switch, alt + N goes to desktop N (with a nice transition effect).
Things like that made me very used to this. When I'm working I'm changing and moving things around all the time.
I don't like the dependencies that compiz have though, so I will give it a try others wm and see if I can be as productive as I am with compiz.
That is the requisite for me in a minimal wm now : productivity.

What dependencies?

x0rg · 2010-01-02 01:29:53

Is it possible to disable certain properties such as shadows for certain apps in the compiz autoproperties?

ngoonee · 2010-01-02 10:48:21

x0rg wrote:

Is it possible to disable certain properties such as shadows for certain apps in the compiz autoproperties?

Have not done that before, but I believe you can, as there's "Window Rules" which lets you set a whole bunch of things for specific windows, including 'not handled by WM'.

ArchArael · 2010-01-02 13:35:38

Playing right now with compiz. I have set the same environment I had before in openbox. Now I have the same key bindings and the same concept (fully usable only with keyboard and only with mouse). I tried to avoid the bloat and to privilege the usability. Very usable and successful so far. None other window manager could make me switch from openbox. I'll try compiz for a couple of weeks to see if it will fit better than openbox. Thank you for your suggestion dumas.

pogeymanz · 2010-01-02 19:32:49

Compiz is just like Firefox for me: I got hooked on one or two plugins and now I can't switch to anything else!

markp1989 · 2010-01-02 19:39:13

+1 i used to use compiz as a stand alone wm, with most dissabled, it was nice, used little resources. i think compiz does most of the work in the gpu (im not sure corect me if im wrong) leaving the cpu for application

karabaja4 · 2010-01-02 20:12:48

The one thing that keeps me from using compiz over openbox is right-click openbox desktop menu.

There is compiz-deskmenu, which is the buggiest piece of software I have ever seen. Half the time it doesn't even open

There is also myGtkMenu (it's in AUR), which is better, but it's still a bit slow for my taste, and somewhat intrusive.

If someone would make a decent menu which is integrated more tightly into the system so it doesn't require external program call each time it opens, I would probably be using Compiz right now instead of openbox

Meyithi · 2010-01-02 20:21:52

My problem with Compiz is that sometimes you need to disable the effects when playing certain games, using certain apps which is where fusion-icon comes in handy when there is another WM to switch to. I don't like the idea of having to configure and install another WM or even of it's possible when using Compiz standalone.

markp1989 · 2010-01-02 20:33:52

karabaja4 wrote:

The one thing that keeps me from using compiz over openbox is right-click openbox desktop menu.
There is compiz-deskmenu, which is the buggiest piece of software I have ever seen. Half the time it doesn't even open
There is also myGtkMenu (it's in AUR), which is better, but it's still a bit slow for my taste, and somewhat intrusive.
If someone would make a decent menu which is integrated more tightly into the system so it doesn't require external program call each time it opens, I would probably be using Compiz right now instead of openbox

i have tried writing a application launcher thats uses zenity,

the problem i have right now is that i have to "hard code" the list of available apps,

im hoping to eventualy make it so that it will check /usr/share/applications and make entrys for that rather then having to set them up in the list manualy.

i have it set to run when i press the extra button on my mouse

#!/bin/bash
menuitem=`zenity --list --title="Application Launcher" \
--width=325 --height=325 \
--text="Application Launcher" \
--column="Modename" --column="Description" --separator=";" \
Firefox           "Firefox Web Browser" \
Thunar            "File manager" \
VLC               "Media Player" \
Pidgin            "Messenger" \
Lxterminal        "Lxterminal" \
Sonata          "MPD front end" \
Sylpheed      "Email client" `
case $menuitem in 
    Firefox) firefox;;
    Lxterminal) lxterminal ;;
    Pidgin) pidgin;;
    Thunar) thunar ~/ ;;
    VLC) vlc;;
    Sonata)  if pidof mpd | grep [0-9] > /dev/null; then  sonata ; else  mpd & sonata ;  fi ;;
    Sylpheed) sylpheed ;;
 esac

Last edited by markp1989 (2010-01-02 20:44:45)

ngoonee · 2010-01-02 22:41:26

pogeymanz wrote:

Compiz is just like Firefox for me: I got hooked on one or two plugins and now I can't switch to anything else!

+1

sand_man · 2010-01-03 00:07:55

karabaja4 wrote:

The one thing that keeps me from using compiz over openbox is right-click openbox desktop menu.
There is compiz-deskmenu, which is the buggiest piece of software I have ever seen. Half the time it doesn't even open
There is also myGtkMenu (it's in AUR), which is better, but it's still a bit slow for my taste, and somewhat intrusive.
If someone would make a decent menu which is integrated more tightly into the system so it doesn't require external program call each time it opens, I would probably be using Compiz right now instead of openbox

Just keybind dmenu. I use dmenu more than I use openbox's root menu anyway.
I get sick of having to add and remove apps to the list all the time. dmenu is way easier.

Wintervenom · 2010-01-03 00:22:54

karabaja4 wrote:

[...]
the problem i have right now is that i have to "hard code" the list of available apps,
im hoping to eventualy make it so that it will check /usr/share/applications and make entrys for that rather then having to set them up in the list manualy. [...]

Perhaps you may find this useful:

#!/bin/dash
### Dmenu Launcher #############
# Version 0.4 by Scott Garrett #
# Wintervenom [(at)] gmail.com #
################################
# Depends on:  dmenu, exo      #
################################

# Path to XDG shortcut (*.desktop) directories.
xdg_paths="/usr/share/applications
/usr/local/share/applications
$XDG_DATA_HOME/applications"

# Dmenu command.
dm='dmenu -i'

# Run in Terminal flag.
terminal='no'

# Returns the friendly names from XDG shortcuts and the names of
# executables (according to $PATH).
# Syntax:
#   get_app_names <path> [<path> ...]
get_app_names () {
  # Go through the list of XDG shortcut directories that we were fed.
  until [ -z "$1" ]; do
    # Return a the list of friendly names from the XDG shortcut files,
    # replacing the "Name=" part with a space, so we can later tell if
    # the user chose an XDG shortcut or an executable.
    [ -d "$1" ] && grep -h '^Name=' "$1/"*.desktop | sed -e 's:Name=: :'
    shift
  done
  # Now, tack on the list of regular executables.
  dmenu_path
}

# Look for an XDG shortcut by its friendly name and return the 'Exec'
# parameter inside it.  If we find more than one XDG shortcut with the
# same friendly name, we just return all of their 'Exec' parameters.
# Syntax:
#   get_xdg_app_cmd <path> [<path> ...] -n <XDG friendly name>
get_xdg_app_cmd () {
  # Grab the friendly name we're supposed to be looking for from the
  # parameters.
  name=`echo "$*" | sed 's:^.*-n ::'`
  # Loop through the XDG shortcut paths.
  until [ -z "$1" ]; do
    # Return the paths to the XDG shortcuts that contain the friendly
    # name we're seeking.
    [ -d "$1" ] && grep -l "^Name=$name$" "$1/"*.desktop
    shift
    # Get out of this loop if we hit the friendly name switch.
    [ "$1" = '-n' ] && break
  # Now, we go through our search results...
  done | while read file; do
    # ...and grab the 'Exec' parameter from each of them, getting rid
    # of the extra stuff we don't need.
    grep '^Exec=' "$file" | sed -e 's:^Exec=::' -e 's: %.::'
  done
}

# The reason this is a function is so that we can see only the first
# parameter -- the name of the executable.  We don't give a crap about
# the users arguments if he or she entered any.
program_exists () {
  which "$1"
}

# Ask the user to select a program to launch.
while :; do
  app=`(echo "[Run in Terminal: $terminal]"; get_app_names $xdg_paths) | $dm -p 'Execute:'`
  [ "$app" != "[Run in Terminal: $terminal]" ] && break
  terminal=`[ $terminal = no ] && echo yes || echo no`
done
# Quit if he or she selected nothing.
[ ! "$app" ] && exit
# Figure out whether or not the application selected was an executable
# or an XDG shortcut by seeing if it started with a space.
if [ ! "`echo "$app" | cut -d' ' -f1`" ]; then
  # If it did, it was an XDG shortcut, and we need to get a list of
  # the shortcuts by that name, just in case there's more than one.
  app=`get_xdg_app_cmd $xdg_paths -n $app`
  # If there's more than one, we ask the user which target executable
  # he or she would like to launch.
  [ "`echo "$app" | wc -l`" != '1' ] && app=`echo "$app" | $dm -p 'Which program?'`
  # Quit it they selected nothing.
  [ -z "$app" ] && exit
fi
# Check and see if the program (without params) exists, and launch it
# (with params), if so.
if program_exists $app; then
  [ $terminal = no ] && (exec $app &) || (exo-open --launch TerminalEmulator $app &)
fi

Last edited by Wintervenom (2010-01-03 00:24:05)

some-guy94 · 2010-01-03 03:31:16

sand_man wrote:

karabaja4 wrote:
The one thing that keeps me from using compiz over openbox is right-click openbox desktop menu.
There is compiz-deskmenu, which is the buggiest piece of software I have ever seen. Half the time it doesn't even open
There is also myGtkMenu (it's in AUR), which is better, but it's still a bit slow for my taste, and somewhat intrusive.
If someone would make a decent menu which is integrated more tightly into the system so it doesn't require external program call each time it opens, I would probably be using Compiz right now instead of openbox
Just keybind dmenu. I use dmenu more than I use openbox's root menu anyway.
I get sick of having to add and remove apps to the list all the time. dmenu is way easier.

Or use compiz-deskmenu + gnome-do

toxygen · 2010-01-03 04:09:11

Has anyone gone from kde4 to compiz? I was using kde 3.5+compiz and recently upgraded. kwin with composite is nice but it doesnt feel as compiz did for me, and i've been considering switching back, or maybe using compiz standalone as described on this thread. any advice or tips from others who made similar transitions?

[edit to add keeping kde dependencies would not be an issue for me at this point, but maybe later i'd start stripping things away as i found replacements]

Last edited by toxygen (2010-01-03 04:09:52)

falconindy · 2010-01-03 04:47:40

Bleh.. all those plugins and it doesn't even tile well. Also, unless I've missed something, it's a bit limiting as far as keyboard shortcuts. I suppose that can be solved via other means, though.

Sad panda.

sHyLoCk · 2010-01-03 04:50:57

I have fluxbox, trying out compiz now. I don't want unnecessary kde stuffs, although I use k3b, stilll compiz-fusion entirepackage wanted to pull in a lot of other kde stuffs, like kdelibs,etc. Hopefully this will be sufficient:

p -S compiz-fusion-gtk
compiz-fusion-gtk package not found, searching for group...
:: group compiz-fusion-gtk (including ignored packages):
    ccsm  compiz-fusion-plugins-extra  compiz-fusion-plugins-main  compizconfig-backend-gconf  emerald  emerald-themes  fusion-icon  
:: Install whole content? [Y/n] 
resolving dependencies...
looking for inter-conflicts...

Targets (12): compiz-core-0.8.4-1 [1.52 MB]  libcompizconfig-0.8.4-1 [0.11 MB]  pyrex-0.9.8.5-2 [0.30 MB]  compizconfig-python-0.8.4-1 [0.10 MB]  
              ccsm-0.8.4-1 [0.67 MB]  compiz-bcop-0.8.4-1 [0.01 MB]  compiz-fusion-plugins-main-0.8.4-1 [2.24 MB]  compiz-fusion-plugins-extra-0.8.4-1 [3.54 MB]  
              compizconfig-backend-gconf-0.8.4-1 [0.03 MB]  emerald-0.8.4-2 [0.43 MB]  emerald-themes-0.6.0-2 [1.40 MB]  fusion-icon-20091023-1 [0.03 MB]  

Total Download Size:    10.08 MB
Total Installed Size:   33.76 MB

Proceed with installation? [Y/n]

EDIT: Compiz taking up a lot of memory, just started it with bmpanel and already it's using 100% of CPU. System getting slow and unstable. Back to flux for now.

EDIT2: Working fine, after I modified .xinitrc like this:

#!/bin/bash
bmpanel &
#compiz ccp&
conky -q &
parcellite &
xscreensaver -no-splash &
rox -p default &
pacupdate &
gkrellm -g +917+120&
exec ck-launch-session fusion-icon

Last edited by sHyLoCk (2010-01-03 05:59:37)

pedepy · 2010-01-03 05:58:45

problem with using compiz as a standalone WM was never much bloat in the window manager itself but the fact that very few of those 'helper apps' (from panels & launchers to simple things like apps to draw a wallpaper on the root window) one so crucially needs when not in a fully featured DE like gnome or KDE, were all designed for non composited environements and never played nice with compiz.

maybe this is what's changing ?

Arch Linux

#1 2009-11-12 10:23:26

Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#2 2009-11-12 11:16:08

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#3 2009-11-12 11:16:27

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#4 2009-11-12 16:07:49

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#5 2009-11-12 21:31:29

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#6 2010-01-01 21:24:22

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#7 2010-01-01 21:44:04

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#8 2010-01-01 23:26:55

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#9 2010-01-01 23:27:38

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#10 2010-01-02 01:29:53

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#11 2010-01-02 10:48:21

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#12 2010-01-02 13:35:38

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#13 2010-01-02 19:32:49

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#14 2010-01-02 19:39:13

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#15 2010-01-02 20:12:48

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#16 2010-01-02 20:21:52

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#17 2010-01-02 20:33:52

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#18 2010-01-02 22:41:26

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#19 2010-01-03 00:07:55

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#20 2010-01-03 00:22:54

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#21 2010-01-03 03:31:16

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#22 2010-01-03 04:09:11

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#23 2010-01-03 04:47:40

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#24 2010-01-03 04:50:57

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

#25 2010-01-03 05:58:45

Re: Compiz has improved as a potential minimalistic WM

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