Looking for a new window manager

m4co · 2009-12-29 14:31:46

Hello all!

My first post here and I'd like to share a little discussion.

So I have this idea of "perfect desktop" in my mind:
- It must be lightweight
- Very clean.
- No menus
- Highly customizable.
- Able to run compiz

I've come to Enlightenment 17 on Fedora and that was close to perfection.
I just loved, everything I wanted. Nice animations, clean, and man you can change absolutely everything there.
But then I started getting frustrated with bugs since it's not stable and I had to move on.

Then I came to XFCE4.6. Great, fairly customizable. Fewer bugs that you can live with it.
And I could run compiz. I just love using compiz here and got used to it. I use compiz to be more productive with the desktops , shortcuts and just a few animations.

But I few like trying something new. XFCE is just here for a lack of a better choice. It doesn't feel it fits me.
So maybe someone could recommend a new Window Manager for me?

I am interested in OpenBox and FluxBox.
I'm astonished with some OpenBox screenshots where you don't have anything, just the right-click menu and some apps running.
That's exactly what I would want.

But then, things like NetworkManager. How do you connect to internet (wireless)? On the command line?
What if I'd need to scan for open wireless networks..everything would have to be on command line?
Laptop Battery widget that warns when it's almost over, etc..

Are those WM really that raw or am I missing a few hidden goodies?

Would LXDE be a better choice?

Epiphanic · 2009-12-29 14:50:04

Why don't you run Compiz on its own? From what I understand when you use Compiz in a DE like Gnome, KDE, or Xfce, it just replaces the default window manager (Metacity, Kwin, and Xfwm, respectively) with Compiz.

rson451 · 2009-12-29 15:28:37

m4co wrote:

- Able to run compiz

If you are looking for a new window manager that is able to run compiz, then you only have one choice -- compiz.

whacath · 2009-12-29 15:32:32

Fuck Compiz and DEs! There is only one solution: Ratpoison!

Last edited by whacath (2009-12-29 15:32:49)

sHyLoCk · 2009-12-29 15:37:41

rson451 wrote:

m4co wrote:
- Able to run compiz
If you are looking for a new window manager that is able to run compiz, then you only have one choice -- compiz.

Lol, most people don't get that compiz is a window manager itself, how can you run it inside another one? I have seen people asking how to run compiz in fluxbox.

whacath · 2009-12-29 15:42:30

sHyLoCk wrote:

rson451 wrote:
m4co wrote:
- Able to run compiz
If you are looking for a new window manager that is able to run compiz, then you only have one choice -- compiz.
Lol, most people don't get that compiz is a window manager itself, how can you run it inside another one? I have seen people asking how to run compiz in fluxbox.

Thats what Ratpoisons tmpwm-command is for! ;D

Lexion · 2009-12-29 16:01:57

I would recomend compiz standalone with dmenu and/or gmrun for program launching.

sHyLoCk · 2009-12-29 16:07:20

whacath wrote:

Fuck Compiz and DEs! There is only one solution: Ratpoison!

whacath wrote:

FThats what Ratpoisons tmpwm-command is for! ;D

It seems to me you are a new ratpoison user, give it time, it will get annoying.

Last edited by sHyLoCk (2009-12-29 16:07:53)

Cyrusm · 2009-12-29 16:22:21

m4co wrote:

Hello all!

But then, things like NetworkManager. How do you connect to internet (wireless)? On the command line?
What if I'd need to scan for open wireless networks..everything would have to be on command line?
Laptop Battery widget that warns when it's almost over, etc..

wireless networking from the command line isn't so bad. I use netcfg2 for wireless network management
and to detect open wireless networks just run the following

sudo iwlist <wireless interface> scan | less

and you'll get a list of all networks in range and information on all of those networks.

as far as battery monitoring goes, maybe conky???

whacath · 2009-12-29 16:30:08

sHyLoCk wrote:

whacath wrote:
Fuck Compiz and DEs! There is only one solution: Ratpoison!
whacath wrote:
FThats what Ratpoisons tmpwm-command is for! ;D
It seems to me you are a new ratpoison user, give it time, it will get annoying.

No just joking around.

pogeymanz · 2009-12-29 17:15:24

Like has been mentioned before: Compiz IS a WM. You can't run Openbox and Compiz at the same time. What you have been using (XFCE, Gnome, KDE) are referred to as DEs because they come with WMs and software to manage the destkop,etc.

I recommend running Compiz by itself. There is a good wiki page on it in the Arch wiki. Some apps you'll want to go with it are:
LXAppearance --change GTK/icon theme
Feh or Nitrogen --Set Wallpaper
Xfce4-panel --The lightest one that works with Compiz properly
Or, if you don't want a panel: stalonetray
Compiz-deskmenu --For a customizable right-click main menu
Gmrun --Run dialog (Alt+F2 in most DEs)

linkmaster03 · 2009-12-29 17:44:12

I also suggest running Compiz stand-alone.

As for wireless network management from the terminal, I highly suggest you try wicd. It now has a curses client that works very good.

jack.mitchell · 2009-12-29 20:49:12

linkmaster03 wrote:

I also suggest running Compiz stand-alone.
As for wireless network management from the terminal, I highly suggest you try wicd. It now has a curses client that works very good.

I second wicd-curses for wireless management.

m4co · 2009-12-29 21:42:19

Wow is this forum active. Makes me feel welcome here

The thing about wireless, I actually like command line, but there are a few things that are worth having a applet or something.
And wireless is one of those. I guess I can take a look on wicd.

It's a good idea to have compiz as the WM actually. Would it be lightweight to have it like that?
Is there anybody here that uses compiz as a WM?

For the xfce4-panel, is it possible to get transparency on it? That's probably the only thing holding me back with xfce4-panel.

If "able to run compiz" wasn't a requisite, what other WM would you suggest for my "profile" ?
I would like to hear other users opinions who like to customize everything on a WM.

I recommend running Compiz by itself. There is a good wiki page on it in the Arch wiki. Some apps you'll want to go with it are:
LXAppearance --change GTK/icon theme
Feh or Nitrogen --Set Wallpaper
Xfce4-panel --The lightest one that works with Compiz properly
Or, if you don't want a panel: stalonetray
Compiz-deskmenu --For a customizable right-click main menu
Gmrun --Run dialog (Alt+F2 in most DEs)

And this helped me a lot.

Thank you all for the replies. I appreciate.

linkmaster03 · 2009-12-29 22:14:36

If xfce4-panel doesn't have an option for transparency in its own configuration, you can write a Compiz rule to set its opacity.

By the way, wicd has a GTK+ tray applet along with the curses interface, so you can use whichever you like.

Last edited by linkmaster03 (2009-12-29 22:15:50)

pogeymanz · 2009-12-29 22:37:03

m4co wrote:

Wow is this forum active. Makes me feel welcome here
The thing about wireless, I actually like command line, but there are a few things that are worth having a applet or something.
And wireless is one of those. I guess I can take a look on wicd.
It's a good idea to have compiz as the WM actually. Would it be lightweight to have it like that?
Is there anybody here that uses compiz as a WM?
For the xfce4-panel, is it possible to get transparency on it? That's probably the only thing holding me back with xfce4-panel.
If "able to run compiz" wasn't a requisite, what other WM would you suggest for my "profile" ?
I would like to hear other users opinions who like to customize everything on a WM.
I recommend running Compiz by itself. There is a good wiki page on it in the Arch wiki. Some apps you'll want to go with it are:
LXAppearance --change GTK/icon theme
Feh or Nitrogen --Set Wallpaper
Xfce4-panel --The lightest one that works with Compiz properly
Or, if you don't want a panel: stalonetray
Compiz-deskmenu --For a customizable right-click main menu
Gmrun --Run dialog (Alt+F2 in most DEs)
And this helped me a lot.
Thank you all for the replies. I appreciate.

Xfce4-panel can have transparency. The only problem is that everything become transparent: text, icons, everything.

I use Compiz as a standalone WM and it is much lighter than DE+Compiz. My Compiz setup uses about 30MB(out of 1GB) more RAM than my Openbox setup (which are both the same except for the WM).

mythus · 2009-12-30 00:07:26

If you don't want to use compiz, your choices become many lol!

Undoubtedly, the favorite among many archers is openbox. However you should know that while openbox is fast, light, and can be sexy... it doesn't allow pixmaps and the like so you won't get any really fancy decorations out of it.

My favotire WM's (not DE's) are currently pekwm, fluxbox, and JWM. Pekwm and fluxbox both have a wonderful feature called grouping or tabbing. Basically, you are able to combine two programs... say pidgin and pidgin chat box, multiple gimp windows, or something like file manager + firefox + terminal + Goggles Music Manager into one lovely window with it's title bar becoming tabs for each window. They also both have great key binding support and the like. Fluxbox is a little lighter than pekwm, but pekwm looks nicer IMO. Also fluxbox comes with it's own panel + system tray while pekWM does not.

JWM is a very light WM that has it's own panel and system tray. It also has swallowing features and is insanely customizable in most aspects... except perhaps appearance. In appearance you can really only change the colors as far as I can tell, but you can use gradients and icons. I am currently using JWM right now, and despite that one small thing, it is a very nice WM. If you like openbox, you may also like JWM even more since you won't be so quick to judge on the lack of decorative options. JWM does use an XML file for configuration, however it is very easy to read and follow, and the JWM documentation is also good. With my JWM, I have it set to run xfce-desktop + thundar + orage (enabled on the clock) + parcelite (for clipboard) and it is rocking and blazingly fast for this old computer.

I suggest installing some and trying them out. If you don't like them... just delete them. Simple as that.

JohannesSM64 · 2009-12-30 00:37:21

Yeah, install some different ones (Openbox, dwm/xmonad/awesome/etc, Ratpoison..) and find one you like. If need eye candy, Compiz is your only option.

pogeymanz · 2009-12-30 03:25:36

PekWM and Openbox are both great. Openbox has way better default settings, but PekWM is more customizable. Neither one has a panel, wallpaper setter, etc. So, you'll want to use the same apps I suggested for Compiz (except for compiz-deskmenu, since they have their own menus).

I have limited experience with Fluxbox, but I didn't like it when I tried it. It tries to do too much while staying lightweight. I prefer Openbox and PekWM because they are so minimal and modular.

Honestly, there are so many good options you just have to try some.

I'd say try Openbox first, since there is so much documentation and tips & tricks, since just about every Arch user has spent time with it. Once you see what a WM is and how it's different from having a DE, you'll start trying others out of curiosity.

m4co · 2009-12-30 04:22:13

pekwm, fluxbox and JWM, Ratpoison (I thought you were joking with this name?)

Thank you! I'm googling them all.

Fluxbox always called my attention, but it always looked it required much work to make it how I want it (transparency, shortcuts, theming..).

I tried Openbox and I really liked but I missed some "compiz" things on it and I know you can't use both.
The cool thing about compiz to me is productivity, so if I can do something like that with another WM, I'm sold.

The one that I could do that and more was E17. But too buggy.

So I'm glad using compiz as standalone is not just and idea and actually stable.

I will try a few of these WM's!

I'm amazed with these posts. Thanks again!
Time to browse for screenshots and read some wikis.

If you have any idea or something to share please post here.

I didn't know I had these many options

I might let you know of my choices later on.

EDIT: Fluxbos users, Is it possible to remove that fluxbox bar that always stay on the bottom? or make it transparent?

Last edited by m4co (2009-12-30 04:40:32)

mythus · 2009-12-30 05:45:32

EDIT: Fluxbos users, Is it possible to remove that fluxbox bar that always stay on the bottom? or make it transparent?

Yes.

You can set it to hide complete,y or to autohide with appearing at mouseover or whatever. Also you can change it's screen position and size (i.e. make it at bottom right, bottom center, bottom left, top right, top center, top left, same with left and right sides... all at varying degree's of leneght as a percentage such as 30% coverage, 75% coverage, 100%, etc...) Also fluxbox does make use of pseudo-transparency.

I am not sure what tools you were using or liked from compiz, but do know, most of these WM's are extremely configurable.. pekWM and fluxbox included. The nice thing about pekWM and fluxbox is that they are configurable through easy to read and edit plain text files. Openbox uses XML files however it does have awesome tools to make the job easier. JWM uses a single xml file but is so easy to read and use you'd hardly notice it.

Of course, all of these tings take time compared to a full fledge DE, but once you get yourself into it and fleshed out a WM to just how you like it you will so enjoy the benifits of functions you may have never even knew you wanted or missed. Beware though, just like distro hopping, WM hopping is very addictive .

dmz · 2009-12-30 05:52:36

sHyLoCk wrote:

rson451 wrote:
m4co wrote:
- Able to run compiz
If you are looking for a new window manager that is able to run compiz, then you only have one choice -- compiz.
Lol, most people don't get that compiz is a window manager itself, how can you run it inside another one? I have seen people asking how to run compiz in fluxbox.

No problem. You could use xnest, xephyr or similar.

Nice list you compiled there, sir! Lightweight, clean, no menus, etc. But then, when my eyes read "compiz"... I sort of had a mental breakdown.

jasonwryan · 2009-12-30 05:53:18

mythus wrote:

Beware though, just like distro hopping, WM hopping is very addictive .

Never a truer word posted...

toxygen · 2009-12-30 06:08:32

dont forget to check out the latest screenshot thread (there's probably going to be a new one tomorrow night for january).

There are some good ideas and implementations of all of the above shown by fellow archers with good taste!

jdarnold · 2009-12-30 14:26:26

jasonwryan wrote:

mythus wrote:
Beware though, just like distro hopping, WM hopping is very addictive .
Never a truer word posted...

Then you better not click this link

Arch Linux

#1 2009-12-29 14:31:46

Looking for a new window manager

#2 2009-12-29 14:50:04

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#3 2009-12-29 15:28:37

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#4 2009-12-29 15:32:32

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#5 2009-12-29 15:37:41

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#6 2009-12-29 15:42:30

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#7 2009-12-29 16:01:57

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#8 2009-12-29 16:07:20

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#9 2009-12-29 16:22:21

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#10 2009-12-29 16:30:08

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#11 2009-12-29 17:15:24

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#12 2009-12-29 17:44:12

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#13 2009-12-29 20:49:12

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#14 2009-12-29 21:42:19

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#15 2009-12-29 22:14:36

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#16 2009-12-29 22:37:03

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#17 2009-12-30 00:07:26

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#18 2009-12-30 00:37:21

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#19 2009-12-30 03:25:36

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#20 2009-12-30 04:22:13

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#21 2009-12-30 05:45:32

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#22 2009-12-30 05:52:36

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#23 2009-12-30 05:53:18

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#24 2009-12-30 06:08:32

Re: Looking for a new window manager

#25 2009-12-30 14:26:26

Re: Looking for a new window manager

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