comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

awayand · 2010-01-13 18:54:47

Hello everyone,

I have submitted an official proposal to the big-8 to create the unmoderated newsgroup:

comp.os.linux.arch

If you would like to see the creation of such a group, please vote here, and I will post the results in one week at the latest:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FG2RP5L

Advantages:
- an additional medium to discuss arch specific issues (imo less flashy, but more efficient and resource-friendly)

Disadvantages:
- the parallel existence of a newsgroup with a webforum may "water down" the number of users in the respective discussion medium

For those of you who don't have newsgroups access, you can get free access via nntp.aioe.org (see http://news.aioe.org/index.html)

For those of you who wish to see the original RFD (official proposal for the newsgroup), please subscribe to news.groups.proposals. I have copy-pasted the RFD for your convenience here:

Archive-Name: comp.os.linux.arch

                      REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
             unmoderated group {comp.os.linux.arch}

This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) for the creation of the 
unmoderated newsgroup comp.os.linux.arch.

NEWSGROUPS LINE: 
comp.os.linux.arch    Archlinux community, installation and configuration.

RATIONALE: 

This newsgroup is meant to supplement and complement the already existing, and highly active webforum-community on http://bbs.archlinux.org with another medium that some may consider more resource-friendly and efficient than a webforum.


CHARTER:

comp.os.linux.arch is an unmoderated group for the users of the archlinux distribution (http://www.archlinux.org). Discussions about any issue relating to arch, including but not limited to, installation problems, configuration problems, kernel issues or discussions on different applications for arch are welcome.

Posters are expected to abide by normal Usenet standards of decorum, 
and to ignore articles intended to disrupt the group.  The usual 
suspects are prohibited (spam, binaries, direct advertising, etc.)


PROCEDURE:

For more information on the newsgroup creation process, please see:

  http://www.big-8.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=policies:creation

Those who wish to influence the development of this RFD and its 
final resolution should subscribe to news.groups.proposals and 
participate in the relevant threads in that newsgroup.  This is both 
a courtesy to groups in which discussion of creating a new group is 
off-topic as well as the best method of making sure that one's 
comments or criticisms are heard.

All discussion of active proposals should be posted to 
news.groups.proposals

To this end, the followup header of this RFD has been set to
news.groups.proposals.

If desired by the readership of closely affected groups, the 
discussion may be crossposted to those groups, but care must be 
taken to ensure that all discussion appears in news.groups.proposals 
as well.

We urge those who would like to read or post in the proposed 
newsgroup to make a comment to that effect in this thread; we ask 
proponents to keep a list of such positive posts with the relevant 
message ID: 

Barney Fife, <4JGdnb60fsMzHA7ZnZ2dnUVZ_rWdnZ2d@sysmatrix.net>) 

Such lists of positive feedback for the proposal may constitute good 
evidence that the group will be well-used if it is created.

DISTRIBUTION:

This document has been posted to the following newsgroups:

  news.announce.newgroups
  news.groups.proposals
  linux.gentoo.user
  linux.debian.user

The proponent will also post pointers to:

  http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewforum.php?id=13 (Forum and Wiki Discussion for Archlinux) 

PROPONENT: 

Andre Wayand    newsaioeorg@awayand.sleepmail.com


CHANGE HISTORY:
2010-01-13  1st RFD.

EDIT:Made "vote here" bold.
EDIT2:changed subject to reflect new newsgroup name and added "help needed!"

Last edited by awayand (2010-01-24 13:03:55)

awayand · 2010-01-13 19:38:53

Just to let you know, the first vote has arrived, and it is a "yes".

I will keep this thread updated throughout, so you don't have to wait a week for the results.

The survey is limited to a hundred responses (free version), but it should be enough to get the idea implemented or thrown out.

awayand · 2010-01-13 22:39:02

I have three (3) yes votes and zero (0) no votes so far.

Allan · 2010-01-13 23:02:59

So now we will have the forum, mailing-list, IRC and a newsgroup... Seems a bit redundant.

Dieter@be · 2010-01-14 12:16:24

mailing list > newsgroup > forums

awayand · 2010-01-14 20:09:34

as of now, we have 7 yes votes, 1 no vote...

ngoonee · 2010-01-14 22:55:56

Not a good idea I'd think. Forums are easier to access (for newbies), MLs are easier to manage. IRC for real-time stuff.

Dusty · 2010-01-15 00:29:10

I reckon that if people want to communicate using a newsgroup, they should have that option. Anyone who thinks its a bad idea simply has to not use it.

Dusty

awayand · 2010-01-15 00:36:56

9 votes yes, 3 votes no, 3 comments so far:

comments:
1. No benefit over the current forum in ease-of-use/accessibility or the [arch-general] mailing list in resource usage.
2. this will only split up the communities even more. use the mailing list if you don't like the forums!
3. The name and location in the newsgroup hierarchies may need to be changed.

awayand · 2010-01-15 01:23:09

9 yes votes, 4 no votes, 3 comments (no new comments since the last time I posted that stats). To be honest, I was expecting more votes...

Dusty · 2010-01-15 16:36:01

Splitting the community is not a bad thing. Smaller, more localized communities, where localized may mean, "from the same geographic area," or maybe, "speaking the same language," or even, "choosing to communicate using the same technology," are more closely knit communities; they're communities where people know each other and have a little more in common than the whole. There are those who would argue the forum is too big (IIRC, it'd be the same moderator that argues a newsgroup would be redundant. ;-)) as it is.

I imagine somebody will argue "but it puts the answers in different places; I already have to search the wiki, forum, and mailing lists for help; now I'll have to search a newsgroup too..." To which I'll proactively reply: Google will search all of those at once for you.

The only reason not to do it is that there aren't enough people to support it. If there is enough people to support the newsgroup, then the rest of us shouldn't tell them they oughta be using different technology.

Dusty

toxygen · 2010-01-15 17:45:55

Dusty wrote:

I imagine somebody will argue "but it puts the answers in different places; I already have to search the wiki, forum, and mailing lists for help; now I'll have to search a newsgroup too..." To which I'll proactively reply: Google will search all of those at once for you.

some of us dont use google.

I for one am not against the newsgroup, but also wont be making use of it. i see the forums/wiki as the first resource for myself, and most people not actively involved in development. mailing list is a good second place to search. both are easily accessible through archlinux.org. Then the IRC channel is available for more immediate concerns.

I do agree the newsgroup adds redundancy, and this can be both good and bad, but i dont think a new user is likely to find much in the newsgroup that wouldnt (or couldnt) be answered elsewhere

awayand · 2010-01-15 18:02:22

Vote update: 13 yes, 5 no, 3 comments unchanged.

mianka · 2010-01-16 03:31:46

Big yes

awayand · 2010-01-16 18:16:49

vote update: 20 yes, 6 no, 3 comments unchanged

awayand · 2010-01-19 21:21:39

vote 21 yes, 6 no, 4 comments:

1. Been a fan of newsgroups for almost 6 years, bring it on Mon, Jan 18, 2010 8:50 PM findFind...
2. No benefit over the current forum in ease-of-use/accessibility or the [arch-general] mailing list in resource usage. Thu, Jan 14, 2010 11:55 PM findFind...
3. this will only split up the communities even more.

use the mailing list if you don't like the forums! Thu, Jan 14, 2010 9:20 PM findFind...
4. The name and location in the newsgroup hierarchies may need to be changed. Thu, Jan 14, 2010 5:52 PM findFind...

awayand · 2010-01-24 13:02:27

Hello everyone,

I have created a final revision of a request to create an archlinux newsgroup. I had to change the name from comp.os.linux.arch to comp.os.linux.archlinux.

There's one final step to convince the newsgroup administrators to create comp.os.linux.archlinux, and for that, I will need your help.

Here's the reply from one of the responsible admins:

Please ask them to come here and post in news.groups.proposals their
intention to make use of the new group if it is created. I think 22
people may be enough to make a viable newsgroup, but I would need to be
convinced that they actually do know how to use newsgroups and are
interested in using the group.

So, for those of you who actually voted "yes" on the webform, are kindly asked to subscribe to the newsgroup news.groups.proposals, find the thread: "2nd RFD: comp.os.linux.archlinux" and post something like "yes, I would like such a newsgroup and would use it". Judging from the number of viewers already of this thread I am assuming they will be quite surprised to see more than 22 responses.

How do you subscribe to such a newsgroup? See my initial post with directions, but that's just one of many options.

If you do *not* take the effort to post in this newsgroup, I am afraid the newsgroup administrators will not feel that such a newsgroup creation is justified. I am not sure if I agree (for example, I would use such a newsgroup if it existed, but I would be less inclined to actually post a vote first without guarantee that there is an outcome), but that's how the rules are.

So, if you want such a group, please, please, PLEASE post to news.groups.proposals, it depends on all of you now whether or not we will have such a newsgroup.

Thanks for all your help and best wishes!

sand_man · 2010-01-25 00:08:57

Well I wouldn't use it personally so I'm not going to vote yes. Can I be a fence sitter?

awayand · 2010-01-25 00:11:18

sand_man wrote:

Well I wouldn't use it personally so I'm not going to vote yes. Can I be a fence sitter?

Sure!

ngoonee · 2010-01-25 01:00:45

usermod -G "Fence Sitter" ngoonee

awayand · 2010-01-25 07:38:26

You left out -a

ngoonee · 2010-01-25 11:56:16

awayand wrote:

You left out -a

=p thanks

awayand · 2010-01-25 12:17:02

I think it's safe to say I am not really feeling the love for this newsgroup - me starts to doubt it's gonna happen at the rate people are pouring into the newsgroup to vote

ngoonee · 2010-01-25 14:23:21

Well, its Arch. Things happen because the community as a group want them to happen (the old example of x86_64 comes to mind). Or don't happen, as the case may be.

tlvb · 2010-01-25 16:34:13

I'm interested in the project, but as I am a complete newsgrop newbie, and if that wasn't enough, a lurker more than a poster, I feel that while while it would be fun, my expected contribution would be modest to say the least. And because of that I feel that I should not vote if there isn't more interest.

Arch Linux

#1 2010-01-13 18:54:47

comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#2 2010-01-13 19:38:53

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#3 2010-01-13 22:39:02

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#4 2010-01-13 23:02:59

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#5 2010-01-14 12:16:24

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#6 2010-01-14 20:09:34

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#7 2010-01-14 22:55:56

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#8 2010-01-15 00:29:10

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#9 2010-01-15 00:36:56

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#10 2010-01-15 01:23:09

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#11 2010-01-15 16:36:01

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#12 2010-01-15 17:45:55

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#13 2010-01-15 18:02:22

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#14 2010-01-16 03:31:46

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#15 2010-01-16 18:16:49

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#16 2010-01-19 21:21:39

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#17 2010-01-24 13:02:27

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#18 2010-01-25 00:08:57

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#19 2010-01-25 00:11:18

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#20 2010-01-25 01:00:45

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#21 2010-01-25 07:38:26

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#22 2010-01-25 11:56:16

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#23 2010-01-25 12:17:02

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#24 2010-01-25 14:23:21

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

#25 2010-01-25 16:34:13

Re: comp.os.linux.archlinux - creation of newsgroup - your help needed!

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