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#1 2010-01-19 19:44:33

llawwehttam
Member
From: United Kingdom
Registered: 2010-01-19
Posts: 181

Thinking about switching to arch

I have used various distros over the last few years such as debian, fedora, opensuse and most recently ubuntu. I now have ubuntu on both my laptop and desktop and it is fine on my laptop but when I upgrade my desktop something breaks every time. I would like to try arch on my desktop but I don't know much about Arch and I have a few questions before I switch.

Firstly how easy is it to install and what is hardware compatibility like?
I want a lightweight desktop environment and have tried xfce but have never tried*box or icewm so I would like to see other people's opinions.

Any advice or links would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by llawwehttam (2010-01-19 22:00:56)

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#2 2010-01-19 19:54:52

madeye
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From: Denmark
Registered: 2006-07-19
Posts: 331
Website

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

How easy it is to install depends on the level of experience you have with a linux system.
I would suggest to check out the beginners guide to get some ideas about how it's put together.

Let me warn you up front, that after install you will only have a command prompt. You will need to install the x-server yourself, but at the same time you also have total control about what WM/DE you want to use.

It's a very customizable system, but the learning curve can be steep.

The best way to see if Arch is something you like, is to install it and try it out.


MadEye | Registered Linux user #167944 since 2000-02-28 | Homepage

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#3 2010-01-19 20:04:02

llawwehttam
Member
From: United Kingdom
Registered: 2010-01-19
Posts: 181

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

It sounds like the time I got very confident and attempted to install FreeBSD and slackware on two machines side by side at the same time.

That was a while ago now and I have a lot more experience. As I have more than one computer I will always have the forum for help so I'm not too nervous but any more advice or guides will be welcome.
Thanks all.

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#4 2010-01-19 20:15:36

ebal
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From: Athens, Greece
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 224
Website

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

@llawwehttam

I was on your shoes, some time a go.

I've followed this advice:

The best way to see if Arch is something you like, is to install it and try it out.

now after nine months i can tell you honestly that archlinux is for me, perhaps is for you too.
If you can overcome the ugly installer (i did) the final result is a simply/fast/light distro that serve my purpose.
I am using xfce and i have never missed kde nor gnome (not once).

Just to be 100% ownest, in the future i'll try freebsd but at the moment archlinux was/is the best choice for me.

Give it a try (a fair try), you have nothing to lose.

Last edited by ebal (2010-01-19 20:17:05)


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#5 2010-01-19 20:15:47

Cyrusm
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From: Bozeman, MT
Registered: 2007-11-15
Posts: 1,053

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

if you follow the beginners guide, you'll be up and running in no time.  as far as hardware compatibility goes, I would say that since Arch is a bleeding edge system with the newest kernel and drivers available, you probably won't have too many issues.  make sure you do your homework on what drivers you need for your graphics card and network cards (info for this is included in the beginners guide).

the only advice I can give on DE's/WM's is that Arch makes it easy to try them out and find one that fits your needs. 

Good luck with your install and welcome to Arch smile


Hofstadter's Law:
           It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

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#6 2010-01-19 20:21:28

Peasantoid
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Registered: 2009-04-26
Posts: 928
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Re: Thinking about switching to arch

Arch is very slick and the package management is second to none. (Well, there might be a few rivals, but I haven't used any of them so I wouldn't know.) I found pacman to be massively superior to apt/dpkg & associates. You'll need to do quite a bit of tweaking system-wise, but trust me --- and I mean really, trust me -- it's worth it.

If you enjoy tinkering, you'll like Arch.

Last edited by Peasantoid (2010-01-19 20:22:02)

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#7 2010-01-19 20:26:16

llawwehttam
Member
From: United Kingdom
Registered: 2010-01-19
Posts: 181

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

Peasantoid wrote:

Arch is very slick and the package management is second to none. (Well, there might be a few rivals, but I haven't used any of them so I wouldn't know.) I found pacman to be massively superior to apt/dpkg & associates. You'll need to do quite a bit of tweaking system-wise, but trust me --- and I mean really, trust me -- it's worth it.

If you enjoy tinkering, you'll like Arch.

It does sound like its for me..... especially the tinkering part. I am a fan of conky and that takes quite a bit of tinkering.

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#8 2010-01-19 20:27:36

Ghost1227
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From: Omaha, NE, USA
Registered: 2008-04-21
Posts: 1,422
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Re: Thinking about switching to arch

The others have pretty much said all there is to say. However, I thought I'd add my .02 (for what it's worth). You'll never know if Arch is for you unless you try it. If you have issues, read the Beginners Guide and the Wiki in general, ask questions in the forums or on IRC, and always remember Google is your friend!


.:[My Blog] || [My GitHub]:.

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#9 2010-01-19 21:11:21

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,059

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

If you unsure, you can always install Arch inside a virtual machine.

It may be different than installing on an actual machine, but its good for practice for things like editing your conf files, adding users, and installation of basic stuff like Xorg, DE/WM, programs.

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#10 2010-01-19 22:11:53

drcouzelis
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From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 4,092
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Re: Thinking about switching to arch

Ghost1227 wrote:

If you have issues, read the Beginners Guide...

I agree with everything that has been said so far. I just want to stress, please use the Beginner's Guide BEFORE you get any issues!

It makes me cringe every time I see a post saying something like "I downloaded and booted right into the Arch install CD and nothing worked LOL". Please do use the Beginner's Guide! I find it so easy to follow.

I apologize for asking such a simple question but, is the Beginner's Guide also included on the install disc somewhere? It kind of makes sense to include it, but since it is a wiki and gets updated so often, I suppose it doesn't make THAT much sense. tongue

Last edited by drcouzelis (2010-01-19 22:14:38)

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#11 2010-01-19 22:12:58

Epiphanic
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Registered: 2009-02-22
Posts: 44

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

I came to Arch with less than 6 months on the Linux scene (I think).  I used Linux Mint and then Fedora.  My suggestion is to read the Beginner's Guide before you even install it so you know what's gonna happen and what choices you'll need to make when you do install it.  If you follow the guide, you'll be fine.

As far as what environment you want to try once you get Arch installed, you're on your own.  Just try some out and see what you like.  I personally use Openbox and it works pretty well for me.

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#12 2010-01-19 22:39:45

llawwehttam
Member
From: United Kingdom
Registered: 2010-01-19
Posts: 181

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

Thanks for all the help and advice , I do appreciate it. I am going to university next september so I need all my computers set up and working by then and with the workload I don't really want to have to do massive upgrades like with ubuntu, and then get everything sorted out again.

I do like XFCE but do I need the xfce4-xfapplet-plugin and so the gnome-desktop or has xfce got enough on its own?

Thanks again for all the advice.

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#13 2010-01-19 22:40:42

hw-tph
Member
Registered: 2006-11-01
Posts: 149

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

anonymous_user wrote:

If you unsure, you can always install Arch inside a virtual machine.

What (s)he said.

By installing it in a virtual machine you can get a grip on whether you like the methods of installation, configuration, system maintenance and so on. And if you decide it's not for you just leave it be and give something else a try.

Nobody is going to force you to run Arch.

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#14 2010-01-19 22:51:32

whacath
Member
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 283

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

ebal wrote:

...blablabla If you can overcome the ugly installer blablabla...

What!?! It is the most beautiful installer I've ever seen! How could you call it something like the word ugly!?! shame on you! sad

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#15 2010-01-19 23:03:58

Primoz
Member
From: Ljubljana-Slovena-EU
Registered: 2009-03-04
Posts: 688

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

I'd say that only requirement for successfully installing Arch is reading comprehension and active knowledge of English.
Also when you're asked to choose core packages to install during installation process don't forget to choose Links it's a life saver.
So you can as soon as you boot in your new install go to Arch wiki and follow beginners guide for the rest of your way.

That's that... Pretty much everything work. Well getting periferals to work was a challenge for me first time, but I managed to get it right and since then I had no trouble (I've installed Arch three times, which is a lot for just one and half year of usage, but I first have changed from i686 to x86_64 and then when I changed my computer...).

Anyway good luck with installing it. And don't forget links and wiki are your friends.


Arch x86_64 ATI AMD APU KDE frameworks 5
---------------------------------
Whatever I do, I always end up with something horribly mis-configured.

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#16 2010-01-19 23:18:41

llawwehttam
Member
From: United Kingdom
Registered: 2010-01-19
Posts: 181

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

Primoz wrote:

I'd say that only requirement for successfully installing Arch is reading comprehension and active knowledge of English.
Also when you're asked to choose core packages to install during installation process don't forget to choose Links it's a life saver.
So you can as soon as you boot in your new install go to Arch wiki and follow beginners guide for the rest of your way.
.

English is no problem, I was born there and have lived there for 17 and a bit years, ( not saying that I haven't spent the last 4 years wishing I didn't !).

I'm just wondering what Links is?

Last edited by llawwehttam (2010-01-19 23:19:00)

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#17 2010-01-19 23:23:37

Primoz
Member
From: Ljubljana-Slovena-EU
Registered: 2009-03-04
Posts: 688

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

llawwehttam wrote:
Primoz wrote:

I'd say that only requirement for successfully installing Arch is reading comprehension and active knowledge of English.
Also when you're asked to choose core packages to install during installation process don't forget to choose Links it's a life saver.
So you can as soon as you boot in your new install go to Arch wiki and follow beginners guide for the rest of your way.
.

English is no problem, I was born there and have lived there for 17 and a bit years, ( not saying that I haven't spent the last 4 years wishing I didn't !).

I'm just wondering what Links is?

Links is CLI based browser. Very useful in Arch where you get just CLI when you install it. Be ready to stay in CLI at least 30 min.
What I do is log in in tty 1-3 and in one I run Links with Arch wiki in other I run nano (or editor of your choice) where I edit all the configs and the third is for actual installing through pacman.
Then you just switch with alt+Fn n={1-3} and that's that.


Arch x86_64 ATI AMD APU KDE frameworks 5
---------------------------------
Whatever I do, I always end up with something horribly mis-configured.

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#18 2010-01-20 00:10:57

Sia
Member
Registered: 2010-01-17
Posts: 29
Website

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

The distributions  most be different from each other, therefore called Archlinux smile but linux base knowloge is very important before using Arch.

Good Luck.

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#19 2010-01-20 00:59:48

AlexS
Member
From: Munich, Germany
Registered: 2009-05-16
Posts: 114

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

I'm also new to Arch, and I just have one advice: take care to really READ the install manual, everything is there,and  explained in a simple way. If you don't skip the manual, you should be fine.

It does not take long to install Arch. The first time it should take you 1-2 hours (because of the careful reading), so you definitely won't have problems installing it before starting your studies. Just make sure that you won't be disturbed while you are installing, because it really pays to stay concentrated the first time you install it.

Since then I installed Arch on a second machine and found the install procedure really FAST and easy (i.e. use powerpill instead of pacman to accelerate downloats, etc).

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#20 2010-01-20 01:12:56

stryder
Member
Registered: 2009-02-28
Posts: 500

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

On xfce4-xfapplet-plugin, pacman -S xfce4 installs the whole xfce4 package but if you say no when asked you will be given the option to select what you want.

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#21 2010-01-20 01:43:04

mythus
Member
From: MS Gulf Coast
Registered: 2008-05-15
Posts: 509
Website

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

Just want to add, please use the Beginners Guide and the WIKI.

Really, everything you need is in the Beginner's Guide for installing all the way to ending with a working wm/de environment. If you follow the instructions carefully and know what equipment your system has you will be fine.

Anything else you could want to know about Arch Linux including tips and lists on applications and wm's can be found in the WIKI. Really, it is very complete.

What you can do since you have a laptop at your disposal is to keep it next to you open on the Beginner's Guide. If you can't use that, Links is also good. As with wm's just install what you are used to at first then when you have your pc set up you can play with the other wm's.

Pacman is a wonderful tool, learn it well. With a simple pacman-syu, your computer will be completely up to date. You will never need to reinstall or worry about a distro-upgrade as there are none. Instead you will always have an updated system when you issue that simple command. It is suggested - strongly - to do pacman -Syu often, once a day is a good habit.


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#22 2010-01-20 07:07:27

.:B:.
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2006-11-26
Posts: 5,819
Website

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

Nothing GNU/Linux-specific about this, new users => Newbie corner.

Three tips:
- Use the wiki
- Use the forum (forum search is crap, use google to filter results)
- Use Google

Not necessarily in that order wink. They're not mutually exclusive either.

E.g. You might easily have looked up Links online instead of asking what it is. No offense, but the Ubuntu forum culture is very different from the Arch one. Initiative and self-help are very much appreciated, if not mandatory. If you keep that in mind and adjust your mindset to it, you'll have no problems whatsoever running or installing Arch. Documentation is good and communication is excellent - that is, if you take the time to follow it wink.

The installation process aside, hardware compatibility only depends on the kernel that is used. As a rule of thumb, the newer the kernel, the more hardware should be supported (although support for obsolete hardware is phased out once in a while, too). As for any of the lighter DE/WM's, you'll find plenty of threads on this forum about the pros and cons of each of them. Rest assured: it's more information than you'd like, but nevertheless you're the one that has to sift through it, and, ultimately, has to try them. You don't know until you try, so give everything that interests you a run for a few days, read the related documentation so you can eliminate some of them before you try them - saves you a lot of time.


Got Leenucks? :: Arch: Power in simplicity :: Get Counted! Registered Linux User #392717 :: Blog thingy

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#23 2010-01-20 08:13:33

Firepower
Member
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 90

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

Arch is in fact quite an simple distro to use. In line with it's philosophy, if you consult the wiki, it is in fact quite simple.


Archers take their arrows in the knee.

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#24 2010-01-20 09:17:19

llawwehttam
Member
From: United Kingdom
Registered: 2010-01-19
Posts: 181

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

B wrote:

Nothing GNU/Linux-specific about this, new users => Newbie corner.

Three tips:
- Use the wiki
- Use the forum (forum search is crap, use google to filter results)
- Use Google

Not necessarily in that order wink. They're not mutually exclusive either.

E.g. You might easily have looked up Links online instead of asking what it is. No offense, but the Ubuntu forum culture is very different from the Arch one. Initiative and self-help are very much appreciated, if not mandatory. If you keep that in mind and adjust your mindset to it, you'll have no problems whatsoever running or installing Arch. Documentation is good and communication is excellent - that is, if you take the time to follow it wink.
.

Thanks for the pointer. I did have a look at the wiki and looked at the links but I was really after other people's opinions.  I know what you mean by the different culture, and I quite like it this way.

I will definitely spend more time reading the documentation before asking next time.
Thanks for the advice
Matt

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#25 2010-01-20 10:05:51

.:B:.
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2006-11-26
Posts: 5,819
Website

Re: Thinking about switching to arch

Good luck with the installation smile. As someone said, if you have a spare system it's a good thing to have the installation guide open during your first run - especially if you want to tune things right off the bat.


Got Leenucks? :: Arch: Power in simplicity :: Get Counted! Registered Linux User #392717 :: Blog thingy

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