Thoughts on the film "Revolution OS"?

xelados · 2010-02-19 09:38:33

I recently checked it out; it's a series of interviews outlining the beginnings of the free software movement. Such interviewees include Linus Torvalds, Eric S. Raymond, Richard Stallman, and a few other key players.

I considered it quite an educational documentary. For the time, Red Hat was apparently the highest priced IPO. Has a company beaten that yet? I recall the first day's price reaching something like $280/share. Unfortunately during the time Linux was up-and-coming I was a kid and hadn't even bought my first home PC, but it's interesting to go back and marvel at just how uncanny it was that everything fell into place for GNU and Linux.

What are your thoughts?

sand_man · 2010-02-19 12:37:33

Where can I find this film? Is it free? Because if it's not...*shakes fist*

combuster · 2010-02-19 12:41:28

Yeah it's free. I've downloaded it from some ftp, I don't remember witch one.

Googled it: http://mirrors.unixsol.org/revolution_os/

Cyrusm · 2010-02-19 14:12:52

Here's a Torrent file so you don't have to spend 20hrs downloading it through your browser currently has lots of seeds, relatively fast download.

Misfit138 · 2010-02-19 16:16:00

I've seen the film.
My reflections? I liked it.
There was one very telling segment which infuriated me, though. Firstly, the fact that RMS and the FSF were awarded the "Linus Torvalds Award" was rightly described by RMS as "like giving the Han Solo award to the entire rebel fleet". It was disrespectful at best.
The part that really hit me, though, was when RMS was speaking, Linus can be seen off to the side, posturing his smug little self by bringing his toddlers onto the stage and rudely calling attention to himself.
He was saying "look at me, the lighthearted, approachable poster boy for this OS that I take credit for! Don't look at RMS, look at me and how I don't even need to take any of this seriously...I'm playing with my wonderful kids while this old wizard is boring you while he compliments me on my 'better' kernel and goes on about his philosophy! Weeeeeee!"

raf_kig · 2010-02-19 17:41:39

Yeah, Linus sometimes really is an asshole.

urist · 2010-02-19 18:03:42

I may be wrong, but it looks to me like his kids were the ones that wanted to come up. He was just standing there with his older daughter when some burly guy carries his younger daughter up and sets her on the stage.

jdarnold · 2010-02-19 18:18:43

It's also on Netflix, even available "instantly", although, ironically enough, Netflix Instant isn't available for Linux (yet) I hope:

http://goo.gl/JcD5

I have it in my queue but haven't watched it yet.

Misfit138 · 2010-02-19 18:30:28

raf_kig wrote:

Yeah, Linus sometimes really is an asshole.

This made me laugh, thanks!

jason.blier · 2010-02-19 20:40:24

Misfit138 wrote:

I've seen the film.
My reflections? I liked it.
There was one very telling segment which infuriated me, though. Firstly, the fact that RMS and the FSF were awarded the "Linus Torvalds Award" was rightly described by RMS as "like giving the Han Solo award to the entire rebel fleet". It was disrespectful at best.
The part that really hit me, though, was when RMS was speaking, Linus can be seen off to the side, posturing his smug little self by bringing his toddlers onto the stage and rudely calling attention to himself.
He was saying "look at me, the lighthearted, approachable poster boy for this OS that I take credit for! Don't look at RMS, look at me and how I don't even need to take any of this seriously...I'm playing with my wonderful kids while this old wizard is boring you while he compliments me on my better kernel and goes on about his philosophy! Weeeeeee!"

Ha! That's funny - I saw something completely different.

I saw RMS come on stage - pissed that Linus has had all this recognition - but not so pissed that he wouldn't accept the award...becuase it will give him yet another chance to dive into his Gnu/Linux rant that I am sure everyone in the audience has heard about 30 times already. Plus the star wars comment was funny - but an obvious stab at Linus/Linux. I think that the clip of Linus playing with his children was to illustrate the difference between Linus and RMS. RMS throws a jab at Linus...goes off on his verbal crusade, with Linus standing 20 feet away, and not giving a flying crap about what RMS is saying because his priorities are on more important things, like life and family. The linux kernel does not define who Linus is. RMS uses the GNU project and it's politics to help define himself.

That's just my opinion - I could be way off base.

-J

Last edited by jason.blier (2010-02-19 20:41:56)

Misfit138 · 2010-02-19 21:12:32

jason.blier wrote:

... I think that the clip of Linus playing with his children was to illustrate the difference between Linus and RMS...

That's exactly what posturing is; Intentionally positioning oneself in order to convince onlookers of the intended effect.

I do disagree with how you see it, though. I think our interpretations of what we both saw tells us something about ourselves and each other. Interesting how that works. Quite fascinating, really.

toxygen · 2010-02-19 21:19:51

jason.blier wrote:

Misfit138 wrote:
I've seen the film.
My reflections? I liked it.
There was one very telling segment which infuriated me, though. Firstly, the fact that RMS and the FSF were awarded the "Linus Torvalds Award" was rightly described by RMS as "like giving the Han Solo award to the entire rebel fleet". It was disrespectful at best.
The part that really hit me, though, was when RMS was speaking, Linus can be seen off to the side, posturing his smug little self by bringing his toddlers onto the stage and rudely calling attention to himself.
He was saying "look at me, the lighthearted, approachable poster boy for this OS that I take credit for! Don't look at RMS, look at me and how I don't even need to take any of this seriously...I'm playing with my wonderful kids while this old wizard is boring you while he compliments me on my better kernel and goes on about his philosophy! Weeeeeee!"
Ha! That's funny - I saw something completely different.
I saw RMS come on stage - pissed that Linus has had all this recognition - but not so pissed that he wouldn't accept the award...becuase it will give him yet another chance to dive into his Gnu/Linux rant that I am sure everyone in the audience has heard about 30 times already. Plus the star wars comment was funny - but an obvious stab at Linus/Linux. I think that the clip of Linus playing with his children was to illustrate the difference between Linus and RMS. RMS throws a jab at Linus...goes off on his verbal crusade, with Linus standing 20 feet away, and not giving a flying crap about what RMS is saying because his priorities are on more important things, like life and family. The linux kernel does not define who Linus is. RMS uses the GNU project and it's politics to help define himself.
That's just my opinion - I could be way off base.
-J

And this, my friends, defines the two camps in the OSS community.

i ilke RMS, i ike linus, and the rest. but the whole celebrity/celebrity leader thing seems to be something all these characters like to avoid. the movie was a good overview of the OSS movement though.

Last edited by toxygen (2010-02-19 21:20:22)

toad · 2010-02-19 21:47:30

Misfit138 wrote:

jason.blier wrote:
... I think that the clip of Linus playing with his children was to illustrate the difference between Linus and RMS...
That's exactly what posturing is; Intentionally positioning oneself in order to convince onlookers of the intended effect.
I do disagree with how you see it, though. I think our interpretations of what we both saw tells us something about ourselves and each other. Interesting how that works. Quite fascinating, really.

And, of course, you are both right

Anikom15 · 2010-02-19 23:04:32

I really hate when people judge Linus and Stallman, have any of you actually met them in person? Even then, if you wouldn't say it to their face, don't say it at all.

Themaister · 2010-02-19 23:09:20

I think it's a quite good documentary actually. Watched it several times

raf_kig · 2010-02-19 23:44:14

Anikom15 wrote:

I really hate when people judge Linus and Stallman, have any of you actually met them in person? Even then, if you wouldn't say it to their face, don't say it at all.

Linus Torvalds wrote:

I'm a bastard. I have absolutely no clue why people can ever think otherwise.

jason.blier · 2010-02-20 00:19:26

Anikom15 wrote:

I really hate when people judge Linus and Stallman, have any of you actually met them in person? Even then, if you wouldn't say it to their face, don't say it at all.

NO, I have never met either one in person or through any media/forum of any kind.

But, there are many things that I would say to their face without hesitation:

Me to Stallman: "Quit it with the GNU/Linux whining - we have heard it all before and we don't want to hear it all again. Face it - the GNU team did a wicked job on replicating the unix toolkit. But when it came to a kernel, you fell on your face, and to this day, continue to fall on your face. The linux kernel came along matured quickly and gave you the last vital component that you all needed to proliferate - you should be thanking Linus and buying him beer"

Me to Linus: "As much of a pain in the ass as RMS is, without him and the underlying groundwork he laid, you would have no userland to make the kernel viable and no GPL to protect and release the code to the public - Linux would be just a small "proof of concept" experiment with very few developers. You should thank Richard and buy him beer...or whatever he drinks"

Linus and RMS are the yin and yang of the open source community.

Misfit138 wrote:

That's exactly what posturing is; Intentionally positioning oneself in order to convince onlookers of the intended effect.
I do disagree with how you see it, though. I think our interpretations of what we both saw tells us something about ourselves and each other. Interesting how that works. smile Quite fascinating, really.

Right....so when Linus' kids approached him, he was supposed to do what.....ignore them?? kick them in the face??

I look at that scene and wonder if Stallman and Linus even know they will be in a documentry. IS Linus being genuine on stage with his kids? (I though he was) What was the attitude that Each had towards the other (Linus and Stallman) at that point in time? What are the attitudes that each has towards OSS at that point in time. Are they so different at all?? (They are both determined (aka stubborn) and set in their ways (aka inflexible)). Plus, was the person taping/editing the documentry, biased towards one or the other?

If you read the kernel mailing lists and all the stuff from RMS, that may shine a light on where they are in their lives and what their personal priorities are. I would bet that if Linus didn't have a family, that would have been a very different scene. Now that Linus has a family - his priorities in life have changed. he likes to code and work on the kernel and do his occasional side projects like maintaining git. He is not really wrapped up in the OSS/FSF politics (from what I can tell). RMS has nothing but time to devote to the FSF and all it's politics and efforts - that's his life.

When I look at the clip -THAT is what I see...it has nothing to do with who I like better. RMS and Linus are both kickass in my book - just for different reasons.

Forgive me, I'm not trying to be defensive - but a lot of geeks think that because of your assumed view on a certain aspect of the OSS movement, they are able to shine a light on some massive aspect of your personality. (That wasn't directed at you, Misfit - it is just a trend that I see in the FSF/OSS community)

Ok...I need to go compile something

Last edited by jason.blier (2010-02-20 00:20:37)

lifeafter2am · 2010-02-20 00:31:56

jason.blier wrote:

Me to Stallman: "Quit it with the GNU/Linux whining - we have heard it all before and we don't want to hear it all again. Face it - the GNU team did a wicked job on replicating the unix toolkit. But when it came to a kernel, you fell on your face, and to this day, continue to fall on your face. The linux kernel came along matured quickly and gave you the last vital component that you all needed to proliferate - you should be thanking Linus and buying him beer"
Me to Linus: "As much of a pain in the ass as RMS is, without him and the underlying groundwork he laid, you would have no userland to make the kernel viable and no GPL to protect and release the code to the public - Linux would be just a small "proof of concept" experiment with very few developers. You should thank Richard and buy him beer...or whatever he drinks"
Linus and RMS are the yin and yang of the open source community.

+1

I like them both, but sometimes Linus seems too poster-childy and can come off as high-and-mighty, and I am sorry, but Stallman comes off as VERY preachy and whiny sometimes.

Being the scientist that I am, I have always wondered if your "place" in the Linux community determines your view more on these two. Like, do users take to the Linus camp more and more developers take to the Stallman camp? Does it depend on how you heard the story, where, how versed you were in the FOSS camp and Linux kernel you already were? Sorry ...... going off on a thought process there.

Oh .... and I liked the movie. I have actually watched it several times, usually during re-installs or the like.

jason.blier · 2010-02-20 00:41:16

lifeafter2am wrote:

+1
I like them both, but sometimes Linus seems too poster-childy and can come off as high-and-mighty, and I am sorry, but Stallman comes off as VERY preachy and whiny sometimes.
Being the scientist that I am, I have always wondered if your "place" in the Linux community determines your view more on these two. Like, do users take to the Linus camp more and more developers take to the Stallman camp? Does it depend on how you heard the story, where, how versed you were in the FOSS camp and Linux kernel you already were? Sorry ...... going off on a thought process there.
Oh .... and I liked the movie. I have actually watched it several times, usually during re-installs or the like.

That's a good question. I think that people tend to learn about Linus first due to the fact that most people call the entire OS "Linux". I was in my early teens when Linux was released and cut my teeth with slackware and redhat once it was married with the GNU tools. I did loosely follow the happenings in the OSS/FSF world and recognize that Linus and RMS needed each other to succeed - that is obvious when you look back on everything. I dont really see Linus and RMS being is "different camps". I look at the GPL and BSD licences being in different camps - and I think that divides the community more than Linus/RMS.

Last edited by jason.blier (2010-02-20 00:41:55)

Peasantoid · 2010-02-20 01:09:43

Here is a link if mirrors.unixsol.org is going slow for y'all.

http://3p.peasantoid.org/revolution-os.avi

Misfit138 · 2010-02-20 01:42:24

jason.blier wrote:

Right....so when Linus' kids approached him, he was supposed to do what.....ignore them?? kick them in the face??

No, I just think he should have discouraged them from getting onstage, and gently handed them back to their mother (or whomever had them to begin with). That would have shown proper regard and professionalism.

I look at that scene and wonder if Stallman and Linus even know they will be in a documentry. IS Linus being genuine on stage with his kids? (I though he was)

I disagree and I guess I just interpret his actions completely opposite as you, as I stated above.

I also find it disturbing that when asked on film, he states that the term GNU/Linux is 'ridiculous'. Though, I fear that to proceed by reiterating and stressing my position, I would merely provoke a more contentious response, which was certainly not my aim when I engaged a discussion with you above.
I do think it is open to interpretation and I do believe it is very telling about the beholder.

jason.blier · 2010-02-20 03:29:09

Misfit138 wrote:

jason.blier wrote:
Right....so when Linus' kids approached him, he was supposed to do what.....ignore them?? kick them in the face??
No, I just think he should have discouraged them from getting onstage, and gently handed them back to their mother (or whomever had them to begin with). That would have shown proper regard and professionalism.
I look at that scene and wonder if Stallman and Linus even know they will be in a documentry. IS Linus being genuine on stage with his kids? (I though he was)
I disagree and I guess I just interpret his actions completely opposite as you, as I stated above.
I also find it disturbing that when asked on film, he states that the term GNU/Linux is 'ridiculous'. Though, I fear that to proceed by reiterating and stressing my position, I would merely provoke a more contentious response, which was certainly not my aim when I engaged a discussion with you above.
I do think it is open to interpretation and I do believe it is very telling about the beholder.

Have no fear - I am pretty neutral on the Linus/RMS thing - I agree with you about Linus response about the GNU/Linux name - credit where credit is due.

Berticus · 2010-02-20 04:38:34

Anikom15 wrote:

I really hate when people judge Linus and Stallman, have any of you actually met them in person? Even then, if you wouldn't say it to their face, don't say it at all.

I'm gonna be meeting Stallman in person on Monday. Sorry for being off topic, I just remembered.

I enjoyed the movie a lot. Found it very educational since I didn't really know the history of GNU/Linux all that well. I agree with post #17 - both about how they needed each other, and how Stallman has dedicated every moment of his life to FOSS.

Cyrusm · 2010-02-20 04:53:31

sure Richard Stallman might be a little nutters, but he's full of great ideas and a driven passion, without which the free software community wouldn't be what it is today. and as for Linus Torvalds, he offers a personable, friendly, and of course marketable face for open-source software. Plus, he came up with a really catchy name (you have to admit that Linux sounds more catchy than GNU.)

In the end, I don't think it really matters what the name is (GNU, Linux, Open Source, etc. ) or who should "get credit" I think that what really matters in the end is the idea behind it all. there is free software, and all of the developers, maintainers, testers, and users each deserve some credit. In any institution, it's not the people that deliver a message that's important, it's the message that they deliver that matters.

as a result everyone has a free and open computing platform with a variety of high quality software available to choose from.
this isn't necessarily thanks to Linus and RMS (although they did play their parts), this phenomenon is a result of the plethora of people
who have chosen to develop and distribute free software for everyone. It's a rare example of anarchy working, of large groups of
people working to make the lives of strangers better not for personal gain, but for the general improvement of a societal network.
all of which is pretty awesome. imho.

Anikom15 · 2010-02-20 05:16:43

It's not really anarchy since we're bound by a license more powerful and strict than any EULA.

Arch Linux

#1 2010-02-19 09:38:33

Thoughts on the film "Revolution OS"?

#2 2010-02-19 12:37:33

Re: Thoughts on the film "Revolution OS"?

#3 2010-02-19 12:41:28

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