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#1 2010-03-16 00:59:56

trusktr
Banned
From: .earth
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 907
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Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

Hey guys, So i've been using Arch Linux for the first time (Linux for the first time, actually!) and I want to upgrade the system.

I want to use "pacman -Syu" to update everything. Are there any precautions I should take, or will this upgrade everything and all my apps will work fine? Everything I have on my system was installed with pacman, nothing was custom installed, except for one plugin for Gimp with out the use of pacman, just makepkg, makeinstall, etc (oops!).

Has anyone had problems after upgrading with apps no longer working or settings overwritten? What settings should I look out for? etc?

Thanks! big_smile


joe@trusktr.io - joe at true skater dot io.

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#2 2010-03-16 01:02:10

flamelab
Member
From: Athens, Hellas (Greece)
Registered: 2007-12-26
Posts: 2,160

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

Upgrade with no fear big_smile

If you encounter any prob, right here.

Last edited by flamelab (2010-03-16 01:02:23)

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#3 2010-03-16 01:05:55

trusktr
Banned
From: .earth
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 907
Website

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

Ok cool, I'm gunna do it. How often do you perform a system update?


joe@trusktr.io - joe at true skater dot io.

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#4 2010-03-16 01:11:54

flamelab
Member
From: Athens, Hellas (Greece)
Registered: 2007-12-26
Posts: 2,160

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

...Almost daily tongue

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#5 2010-03-16 01:14:05

fsckd
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2009-06-15
Posts: 4,173

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

Have you heard of a user named trusktr,
Who upgrades with the aid of a muster?
Alas for him, today,
Everyone went away,
And left him alone in a fluster.

trusktr wrote:

Ok cool, I'm gunna do it. How often do you perform a system update?

Every few seconds, why?

Last edited by fsckd (2010-03-16 01:15:25)


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#6 2010-03-16 01:18:17

sand_man
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2008-06-10
Posts: 2,164

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

Don't worry, pacman won't override your settings wink


neutral

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#7 2010-03-16 01:19:29

trusktr
Banned
From: .earth
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 907
Website

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

hehe. Well i haven't done one since i started using Arch in the first half of February. I guess if you perform one daily then the easier it is to catch an error if it occurs, otherwise if you wait for a month or two then there a too many updates to know what you upgraded that could be causing a problem.

I've heard of someone upgrading and loosing some functionality before, so that's the only reason why I was wondering.

Anyways, everything seems to be working just nifty! big_smile


joe@trusktr.io - joe at true skater dot io.

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#8 2010-03-16 01:20:45

trusktr
Banned
From: .earth
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 907
Website

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

By the way, i friggin love the Arch pacman utility. When was the last time you were on windows and could upgrade EVERYTHING with one command? ... never. I love being an Archer.


joe@trusktr.io - joe at true skater dot io.

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#9 2010-03-16 01:36:28

sand_man
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2008-06-10
Posts: 2,164

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

trusktr wrote:

By the way, i friggin love the Arch pacman utility. When was the last time you were on windows and could upgrade EVERYTHING with one command? ... never. I love being an Archer.

Now you know how Neo felt when he first opened his eyes tongue


neutral

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#10 2010-03-16 03:24:23

skottish
Forum Fellow
From: Here
Registered: 2006-06-16
Posts: 7,942

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

trusktr wrote:

hehe. Well i haven't done one since i started using Arch in the first half of February. I guess if you perform one daily then the easier it is to catch an error if it occurs, otherwise if you wait for a month or two then there a too many updates to know what you upgraded that could be causing a problem.

I've heard of someone upgrading and loosing some functionality before, so that's the only reason why I was wondering.

Anyways, everything seems to be working just nifty! big_smile

You installed a working system before, right? It was the same pacman going through the same process. It's true that upgrades occasionally break things. Normally just looking around the forums, checking the news on the front page, and maybe even reading the dev-public mailing list is enough to know what needs to be done. And when you do -Suy, read the output on the command line. Occasionally there's information that's important to your situation.

Later on as you become closer to Arch expert status, you'll find all sorts of clever ways to break your own system. At that point, the rolling release is the least of your problems. Just the other day I deleted most of /usr on a running system. That's freakin' stupid. Was I concerned about upgrades? Hell no! I erased pacman!

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#11 2010-03-16 03:24:56

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 7,354

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

trusktr wrote:

hehe. Well i haven't done one since i started using Arch in the first half of February.

Houston, we found the problem!

I'd only recommend holding off updates if you know you need something done urgently (right now!). If that happens too often (every other day) then you should have two machines, one to test and one to do work on.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#12 2010-03-16 03:26:40

Allan
Pacman
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 11,365
Website

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

skottish wrote:

Later on as you become closer to Arch expert status, you'll find all sorts of clever ways to break your own system. At that point, the rolling release is the least of your problems. Just the other day I deleted most of /usr on a running system. That's freakin' stupid. Was I concerned about upgrades? Hell no! I erased pacman!

Ahhh....  breakage that had nothing to do with me!  big_smile

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#13 2010-03-16 06:45:14

trusktr
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From: .earth
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 907
Website

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

haha, nice sand_man. I'm in the real world now! big_smile

Why would you delete you /usr folder Skottish? lol

Hehe, yeah, maybe in the future when i have more $$$ ngoonee. wink


joe@trusktr.io - joe at true skater dot io.

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#14 2010-03-16 06:55:32

tomk
Forum Fellow
From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,839

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

trusktr wrote:

I want to use "pacman -Syu" to update everything.

trusktr wrote:

...upgrade EVERYTHING with one command...

Just so you're clear - pacman -Syu will upgrade installed packages that have been upgraded in the Arch repos. It's not all packages, every time.

Also the advice given here is essential.

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#15 2010-03-16 06:57:07

Firepower
Member
Registered: 2009-12-16
Posts: 90

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

No, -Syu will not break your system, unlike apt-get or ubuntu. (blehhh)

This is mostly due to the simple and modular structure of Arch, the rolling release system, and the superiority of pacman.

As such, you do only need to run updates every other day, updating a few packages. This ensures a lesser chance of screwing up your system, as less dependencies are involved.


Archers take their arrows in the knee.

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#16 2010-03-16 07:15:26

itburnz
Member
Registered: 2009-12-01
Posts: 26

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

Ok, I'll offer my 2 cents, too.

YES, you can break stuff. I run Arch on only one machine: my work computer and every so often an update breaks something or I loose some functionality. My advices would be to

1) update regularly - once a week or more - that way if something doesn't work anymore as it should it makes debugging the system a lot easier (les packages that potentially screwed it up)

2) read the pacman output - it'll provide you with valuable info in case you have to update a config file etc

3) learn how to downgrade packages (have never had to do it, but...) to be able to go back to a working setup

I had things break before (most annoyingly the poweroff function) but sooner or later the next update may catch the glitch and the system will run like a dream again automatically.

Generally, keeping Arch up to date is easy and Pacman is a dream to use I think. Just take some time when you update and don't do it if you have to get that all-important project done on that machine on that particular day.

Last edited by itburnz (2010-03-16 07:16:21)

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#17 2010-03-16 07:57:05

trusktr
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From: .earth
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 907
Website

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

Oh yeah, I knew that tomk. It's cool that everything you install from the repos has the potential for auto upgrade via pacman IF there's an update ready for it. smile Thanks for that info, i'm reading it. It's very useful!

No, -Syu will not break your system, unlike apt-get or ubuntu. (blehhh)

Great advice Firepower. Hey does apt-get exist on arch? I've never used any other distro before, but I believe Arch was the best choice! big_smile

3) learn how to downgrade packages (have never had to do it, but...) to be able to go back to a working setup

That number 3 is good advice, thanks itburnz! If anyone else is reading this for info, here's the "Downgrading Packages" page from the ArchWiki: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Downgrade_packages


joe@trusktr.io - joe at true skater dot io.

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#18 2010-03-16 08:21:24

itburnz
Member
Registered: 2009-12-01
Posts: 26

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

There's no apt-get on Arch (if you're really keen and into programming you could probably replace pacman with apt-get somehow, but why would you?). apt-get is the Debian package manager. As you probably know, Ubuntu and a bunch of other distros are Debian based and hence use apt-get as well.

I think Arch is a great choice much more for the simplicity and transparency than its package manager. As much as I like pacman, apt-get works just as well for me as pacman.

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#19 2010-03-16 15:22:35

cjazz
Member
Registered: 2009-03-12
Posts: 47

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

I don't mean to sermonize, but I'd just like to put in a word for reading the stickies. At the top of this very forum, there is a thread titled "PLEASE READ BEFORE UPGRADING," which addresses some of the very questions raised here. I realize it's human nature to read "past" things -- directions, licenses, warning signs -- but we seem to spend a pretty good amount of time stepping over the very information we need. And I'm as guilty as anybody.

Just want to point out yet another excellent category of resources that exist on this forum.

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#20 2010-03-16 15:23:57

Mr.Elendig
#archlinux@freenode channel op
From: The intertubes
Registered: 2004-11-07
Posts: 4,092

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?


Evil #archlinux@libera.chat channel op and general support dude.
. files on github, Screenshots, Random pics and the rest

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#21 2010-03-16 19:22:53

trusktr
Banned
From: .earth
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 907
Website

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

Mr.Elendig wrote:

Aha! I was wondering about these ".pacsave" files. Great info. Thanks Mr.Elendig. smile
So when I see those warnings it means that the file had custom content inside. eh? Shall I replace the new file with the contents of the pacsaves? Is there a pacsave utility that you know of to view pacsaves and replace if necessary?

Last edited by trusktr (2010-03-16 19:25:42)


joe@trusktr.io - joe at true skater dot io.

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#22 2010-03-16 19:39:36

tomk
Forum Fellow
From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,839

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

trusktr - the reason people post links to wiki pages is so that other people - you, in this case - will read them. The questions you just asked are answered there. neutral

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#23 2010-03-16 19:47:07

fsckd
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2009-06-15
Posts: 4,173

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

pacsaves are just the files renamed. They are the same format as the original, so use whatever program you used to modify the original to view the pacsaves.

Do not merely copy the contents over. Usually a pacsave is generated because you had modified the original. Merge your changes in the older file into the pacsave and then copy it over.


aur S & M :: forum rules :: Community Ethos
Resources for Women, POC, LGBT*, and allies

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#24 2010-03-16 20:40:02

Tleilaxu
Member
From: Plymouth, England
Registered: 2010-02-06
Posts: 9

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

I usually glance over the list to see if anything important looking. Nvidia/ATI drivers are worth looking up, as they can break sometimes. X and kernels are usually okay...

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#25 2010-03-16 22:03:01

trusktr
Banned
From: .earth
Registered: 2010-02-18
Posts: 907
Website

Re: Upgrading the system for the first time! Tips anyone?

Hey tomk, my question is actually not answered in that link!  I'll just take a look at my pacsave files and find out for myself wink

Man, i've seen many of these .pacsave warning messages! i'm gunna go see what's up.


joe@trusktr.io - joe at true skater dot io.

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