You are not logged in.

#1 2011-11-01 13:10:37

rekado
Member
From: Shanghai, China
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 98
Website

Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

I just read this mail on the fedora list regaring the proposal to merge the different directories for binaries:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/piperma … 58845.html

It does seem like a practice from times long gone.
What is your take on this? Wouldn't this be something in the spirit of Arch, too?

Offline

#2 2011-11-01 14:22:43

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

Offline

#3 2011-11-01 14:30:56

rekado
Member
From: Shanghai, China
Registered: 2009-01-13
Posts: 98
Website

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

karol wrote:

Ha!

(Actually, I really like static linking for its simplicity.)

Offline

#4 2011-11-03 03:23:03

Grinch
Member
Registered: 2010-11-07
Posts: 265

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

Offline

#5 2011-11-03 03:56:36

freemind
Member
Registered: 2011-03-07
Posts: 20

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

Can't open. But for what i've read on other places it's a good change.

Last edited by freemind (2011-11-03 03:56:53)

Offline

#6 2011-11-03 05:16:15

lunamystry
Member
From: South Africa
Registered: 2011-04-14
Posts: 23

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

I like the Idea, I saw that another distro took it a step further (http://gobolinux.org/?page=at_a_glance), how hard would be for me (average Ubuntu target user) to do what gobolinux is doing on my Arch installations?

Offline

#7 2011-11-03 07:02:26

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 7,238

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

lunamystry wrote:

how hard would be for me (average Ubuntu target user) to do what gobolinux is doing on my Arch installations?

Very hard (assuming you're really as you describe yourself to be). Its not a copy-paste job.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

Offline

#8 2011-11-03 07:32:06

.:B:.
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2006-11-26
Posts: 5,819

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

lunamystry wrote:

I like the Idea, I saw that another distro took it a step further (http://gobolinux.org/?page=at_a_glance), how hard would be for me (average Ubuntu target user) to do what gobolinux is doing on my Arch installations?

Not unachievable, but completely unmaintainable in the long run.


Got Leenucks? :: Arch: Power in simplicity :: Get Counted! Registered Linux User #392717 :: Blog thingy

Offline

#9 2011-11-03 08:14:49

cybertorture
Member
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 338

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

This may sounds good for mobile and embeded devices, but for anything other than that will be a mistake.


O' rly ? Ya rly Oo

Offline

#10 2011-11-03 14:20:35

the.ridikulus.rat
Member
From: Indiana, USA
Registered: 2011-10-04
Posts: 765

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

Mods: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=129464 . Should this be merged?

Offline

#11 2011-11-03 14:44:25

Allan
Member
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,893
Website

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

When I first saw this, I wondered why they did not follow Hurd and just abandon /usr (with the addition of merging /bin and /sbin).   But the explanation given seems reasonable...

Online

#12 2011-11-03 15:13:41

fsckd
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2009-06-15
Posts: 4,173

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

mod action: I've merged Grinch's thread with Rekado's thread. Original title for Grinch's thread: "Fedora to simplify filesystem hierarchy". Rekado's thread used to be in Arch Discussion. I've added Fedora to the title. Original was "Merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin?"


aur S & M :: forum rules :: Community Ethos
Resources for Women, POC, LGBT*, and allies

Offline

#13 2011-11-03 21:40:14

Leonid.I
Member
From: Aethyr
Registered: 2009-03-22
Posts: 999

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

rekado wrote:

I just read this mail on the fedora list regaring the proposal to merge the different directories for binaries:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/piperma … 58845.html

It does seem like a practice from times long gone.
What is your take on this? Wouldn't this be something in the spirit of Arch, too?

Was that due in F16, or just a prospect?

This could be possible for F17 since those people usually work fast, but for arch I expect a very slow transition because this will breab almost every package... Also, some of the reasoning includes cross-distro compatibility, which implies a new FHS, no?


Arch Linux is more than just GNU/Linux -- it's an adventure
pkill -9 systemd

Offline

#14 2011-11-03 21:51:50

jondkent
Member
From: London
Registered: 2005-09-13
Posts: 123

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

I like the idea of binning dynamic linking as much as possible.  Been bitten too much by libs issues that I'm coming to hate dynamic and very much lean towards static.  There is a lot of stuff in any *nix system that been done because, well, thats what has always been done.  I do think its time to question whether the original reason is valid anymore.

Be interesting to see how this goes.

Offline

#15 2011-12-05 13:45:23

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

Fedora's filesystem restructuring: http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/ … 89851.html

Offline

#16 2011-12-21 20:00:50

the.ridikulus.rat
Member
From: Indiana, USA
Registered: 2011-10-04
Posts: 765

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

Is this possible to do in an existing Archlinux (x86_64 with multilib) system? Something like using Parted Magic to copy files from /bin , /sbin , /lib to /usr/bin , /usr/sbin , /usr/lib respectively and creating the symlinks.

Offline

#17 2011-12-22 20:32:48

WorMzy
Forum Moderator
From: Scotland
Registered: 2010-06-16
Posts: 9,081
Website

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

Not sure why you'd want to, it just sounds like busywork to me.


Sakura:-
Mobo: MSI X299 TOMAHAWK ARCTIC // Processor: Intel Core i7-7820X 3.6GHz // GFX: nVidia GeForce GTX 970 // RAM: 32GB (4x 8GB) Corsair DDR4 (@ 3000MHz) // Storage: 1x 3TB HDD, 5x 1TB HDD, 2x 120GB SSD, 1x 275GB M2 SSD

Making lemonade from lemons since 2015.

Offline

#18 2012-01-27 00:50:02

taylorchu
Member
Registered: 2010-08-09
Posts: 405

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

if you dont know what i am reading now, read http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Softwar … heUsrMerge

this seems to tidy up the root dir, so we dont have to look around in the filesystem to find the binary files.
this also seems easy to implement too. just symlink the dir for compatibility.

what do you think?

Last edited by taylorchu (2012-01-27 00:50:35)


"After you do enough distro research, you will choose Arch."

Offline

#19 2012-01-27 02:02:12

fsckd
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2009-06-15
Posts: 4,173

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

mod action: Merged in taylorchu's post titled "plan to merge some dirs to /usr" from Arch Discussion.


aur S & M :: forum rules :: Community Ethos
Resources for Women, POC, LGBT*, and allies

Offline

#20 2012-01-27 14:38:17

Spider.007
Member
Registered: 2004-06-20
Posts: 1,170

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

I came across this interesting proposal and was interested how the Archlinux community feels about this:

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge wrote:

[...]

  • Improved compatibility with other Unixes/Linuxes in behaviour: After the /usr merge all binaries become available in both /bin and /usr/bin, resp. both /sbin and /usr/sbin (simply because /bin becomes a symlink to /usr/bin, resp. /sbin to /usr/sbin). That means scripts/programs written for other Unixes or other Linuxes and ported to your distribution will no longer need fixing for the file system paths of the binaries called, which is otherwise a major source of frustration. /usr/bin and /bin (resp. /usr/sbin and /sbin) become entirely equivalent.

  • Improved compatibility with other Unixes (in particular Solaris) in appearance: The primary commercial Unix implementation is nowadays Oracle Solaris. Solaris has already completed the same /usr merge in Solaris 11. By making the same change in Linux we minimize the difference towards the primary Unix implementation, thus easing portability from Solaris.

  • Improved compatibility with GNU build systems: The biggest part of Linux software is built with GNU autoconf/automake (i.e. GNU autotools), which are unaware of the Linux-specific /usr split. Maintaining the /usr split requires non-trivial project-specific handling in the upstream build system, and in your distribution's packages. With the /usr merge, this work becomes unnecessary and porting packages to Linux becomes simpler.

  • Improved compatibility with current upstream development: In order to minimize the delta from your Linux distribution to upstream development the /usr merge is key.

[...]

Offline

#21 2012-01-27 14:53:05

Diaz
Member
From: Lisbon, Portugal
Registered: 2008-04-16
Posts: 361
Website

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin


Owner of Asus 1215B :: User of Xfce :: Vasco Dias @blog

Offline

#22 2012-01-27 15:45:09

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 7,238

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

Merging to the on-going thread. Please search before posting.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

Offline

#23 2012-01-27 15:59:39

Spider.007
Member
Registered: 2004-06-20
Posts: 1,170

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

ngoonee wrote:

Merging to the on-going thread. Please search before posting.

Offtopic: the 30s waiting period between searches made me stop after 2 attempts. But thanks for merging

Last edited by Spider.007 (2012-01-27 15:59:54)

Offline

#24 2012-01-27 16:00:38

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,440

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

Spider.007 wrote:
ngoonee wrote:

Merging to the on-going thread. Please search before posting.

Offtopic: the 30s waiting period between searches made me stop after 2 attempts. But thanks for merging

Use Google.

Offline

#25 2012-01-30 00:29:08

Jristz
Member
From: America/Santiago
Registered: 2011-06-11
Posts: 1,022

Re: Fedora merging /usr/bin with /sbin and /bin

merginbg /bin and /sbin into /usr and make symlinks
....trow busybox and trow live-cd

BAD idea...break my sistem and make unable to mount (first try) and/or make unable to initscripts to...init-ialize (second try)

I ask: ...devs-arch have pans to merge those directories too? (LONGS plans....RESLY longs plans (Sun 20-years plan, Fedora 6-months plan)
or axist any ticket or request of this???


Well, I suppose that this is somekind of signature, no?

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB