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#51 2011-07-15 09:54:37

buzzqw
Member
Registered: 2010-08-18
Posts: 59

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

one more suggestion: what about adding NTPD in daemon array  for time sync ?

(since it is already installed)

BHH


HDConvertToX, AutoMen, AutoMKV author

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#52 2011-07-15 10:11:12

ying
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-03-02
Posts: 110

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Hi. Thank you for your fix and the daemon suggestion! They will be included in the next release(0.1.2).  wink

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#53 2011-08-22 12:45:00

buzzqw
Member
Registered: 2010-08-18
Posts: 59

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

installed on acer 5920 (t8300,nvidia 8600gm,4gb ram), the installation of proprietary nvidia driver (173.xx) fails
so i reinstalled with nouveau , then installed latest nvidia wink

BHH


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#54 2011-08-22 17:07:27

oskar.einstein
Member
From: Poland
Registered: 2009-10-23
Posts: 30

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Your site doesn't work sad

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#55 2011-08-22 17:31:38

buzzqw
Member
Registered: 2010-08-18
Posts: 59

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

the correct link is http://manjarolinux.org

BHH


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#56 2011-08-31 13:38:48

zester
Member
From: Wilkes Barre Pa
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 156
Website

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Just to give you a little heads up don't pack those nvidia, nvidia-173xx, catalyst drivers in your iso, the minute the FreeSoftware foundation finds out your
doing that, if you are. All hell is going to break loose that's a serious GPL violation. Thats why no distro ships them on there iso's.

Just letting you know. wink

Last edited by zester (2011-08-31 13:39:26)

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#57 2011-08-31 16:55:54

Zom
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2007-10-27
Posts: 406

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

zester wrote:

Just to give you a little heads up don't pack those nvidia, nvidia-173xx, catalyst drivers in your iso, the minute the FreeSoftware foundation finds out your
doing that, if you are. All hell is going to break loose that's a serious GPL violation. Thats why no distro ships them on there iso's.

Just letting you know. wink

This is wrong. Just adding packages for the drivers on the installation media doesn't violate GPL. It may however violate the license of the drivers themselves, as some drivers can't be distributed freely.

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#58 2011-08-31 19:17:32

zester
Member
From: Wilkes Barre Pa
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 156
Website

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Ummm no if you look on nvidia site they give linux users permission to distribute the binary linux nvidia drivers.

But that doesn't matter be cause the compilation(derivative work) as a whole falls under GPL compliance. And distributing
a closed source binary blob that links to GPL code it illegal to ship. Everyone know this! You cant ship anything that you
cant provide the source code to.

If you think I am full of it ask the Arch devs or send an email to the Freedom Law Center, or FSF.org
the linux kernel is GPL2 if you violate that you could loose your right to ever distribute it again.

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#59 2011-08-31 19:50:29

Zom
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2007-10-27
Posts: 406

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

zester wrote:

Ummm no if you look on nvidia site they give linux users permission to distribute the binary linux nvidia drivers.

But that doesn't matter be cause the compilation(derivative work) as a whole falls under GPL compliance. And distributing
a closed source binary blob that links to GPL code it illegal to ship. Everyone know this! You cant ship anything that you
cant provide the source code to.

If you think I am full of it ask the Arch devs or send an email to the Freedom Law Center, or FSF.org
the linux kernel is GPL2 if you violate that you could loose your right to ever distribute it again.

I actually mailed torvalds myself about this.

> I suppose that'd be the main reason behind distributions not shipping these
> drivers as packages on their liveCDs?

The main reason tends to be different:

- they generally cannot support those drivers if anything goes wrong,
so they'd rather not install them by default

- some proprietary drivers also don't allow free redistribution, so
people have to get them separately.

The GPL supports the notion of "mere aggregation", which means that
just putting things together on a DVD doesn't trigger the GPL.

                       Linus

So no, unless it's preinstalled there shouldn't be any issue.

And it was some drivers, not all of them.

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#60 2011-08-31 20:09:25

zester
Member
From: Wilkes Barre Pa
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 156
Website

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Zom wrote:
zester wrote:

Ummm no if you look on nvidia site they give linux users permission to distribute the binary linux nvidia drivers.

But that doesn't matter be cause the compilation(derivative work) as a whole falls under GPL compliance. And distributing
a closed source binary blob that links to GPL code it illegal to ship. Everyone know this! You cant ship anything that you
cant provide the source code to.

If you think I am full of it ask the Arch devs or send an email to the Freedom Law Center, or FSF.org
the linux kernel is GPL2 if you violate that you could loose your right to ever distribute it again.

I actually mailed torvalds myself about this.

> I suppose that'd be the main reason behind distributions not shipping these
> drivers as packages on their liveCDs?

The main reason tends to be different:

- they generally cannot support those drivers if anything goes wrong,
so they'd rather not install them by default

- some proprietary drivers also don't allow free redistribution, so
people have to get them separately.

The GPL supports the notion of "mere aggregation", which means that
just putting things together on a DVD doesn't trigger the GPL.

                       Linus

So no, unless it's preinstalled there shouldn't be any issue.

And it was some drivers, not all of them.

Would you mind forwarding that email to steven.l.starr@gmail.com I wasn't trying to be a know it all
a couple of years ago when I was working with Zenwalk linux we shipped Nvidia's binary drivers in the
iso not pre-installed. Then a bunch of other distros did the same-thing. It hit www.linuxtoday.com and the FSF
caught wind of it claimed what I said above and threatened all of use with legal action. Since then no major linux distro
has shipped nvidia binary drivers. Search it on google it was huge about 5 years ago. If you would forward that email to me so
I can go stick it in RMS face because I already know what he is going to say.

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#61 2011-08-31 20:15:51

zester
Member
From: Wilkes Barre Pa
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 156
Website

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

From Fedora

The NVIDIA graphics drivers are proprietary, and many kernel developers consider this driver to violate the GPL license of the kernel. Fedora does not include proprietary software.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden … cs_Drivers

Here is another

After the excitement of being the first live CD shipping with the new Xgl and Compiz, the Kororaa project was hit by an ugly controversy over the weekend. It is alleged that the project's inclusion of proprietary NVIDIA and ATI kernel modules on their live CDs is a violation of the General Public License (GPL). Kororaa's Chris Smart told DistroWatch that the allegation came from a kernel developer who is probably familiar with the finer nuances of the GPL. On Sunday, the story was widely publicised on several popular geek sites, including Slashdot and OSNews.

http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20060515#news

Ill post those old articals when I find them.

Last edited by zester (2011-08-31 20:24:15)

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#62 2011-08-31 20:18:43

Zom
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2007-10-27
Posts: 406

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

zester wrote:

Would you mind forwarding that email to steven.l.starr@gmail.com I wasn't trying to be a know it all
a couple of years ago when I was working with Zenwalk linux we shipped Nvidia's binary drivers in the
iso not pre-installed. Then a bunch of other distros did the same-thing. It hit www.linuxtoday.com and the FSF
caught wind of it claimed what I said above and threatened all of use with legal action. Since then no major linux distro
has shipped nvidia binary drivers. Search it on google it was huge about 5 years ago. If you would forward that email to me so
I can go stick it in RMS face because I already know what he is going to say.

Done, and yeah, FSF can be a pain sometimes, since a lot of them think all proprietary linux drivers are illegal.

http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Kernel/propri … dules.html <-- I found this pretty informative, yet some of the things were confusing and that's why I sent the mail.

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#63 2011-08-31 20:28:08

zester
Member
From: Wilkes Barre Pa
Registered: 2011-08-13
Posts: 156
Website

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Thanks ill keep those on hand for when I release my Chipara project smile Because of those issues is why I avoid the GPL and only use the BSD/MIT licenses for the software I write.

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#64 2011-08-31 20:37:31

ying
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-03-02
Posts: 110

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Hmm. First of all we will leave our two closed source drivers in the iso. We will discuss about it and if there are any problems, we can remove the drivers from the livecd and retrieve them from the repos. Thxs for that notice!

installed on acer 5920 (t8300,nvidia 8600gm,4gb ram), the installation of proprietary nvidia driver (173.xx) fails
so i reinstalled with nouveau , then installed latest nvidia wink

BHH

The next version will fix all this problems. But it still needs 2-3 month development/testing time. There are quite a lot of changes.

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#65 2011-11-24 03:53:33

kdas
Member
Registered: 2009-09-29
Posts: 3

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

I can't seem to find the source for the installer anywhere?

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#66 2011-11-26 10:11:45

ying
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-03-02
Posts: 110

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

We are currently changing to a root server. The webpage and git will be also transferred. We will publish everything when 0.2 is published. This can take still some time, due to final exams in school,...

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#67 2012-02-21 04:12:34

Jristz
Member
From: America/Santiago
Registered: 2011-06-11
Posts: 921

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

today I try to download the manjaro-mirrorlist from you website
and try to fetch the repos from my web-browser...but

but I have a 404

my sugestion is to move the project to a website like github/gitorious/sourceforge/launchpad ffor more control and not lost the spurces if the web is down or lost or worst

PD: I love the look and feel of this project...is Greeny


Well, I suppose that this is somekind of signature, no?

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#68 2012-03-19 23:25:24

ying
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-03-02
Posts: 110

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

We have changed servers. However there will be a lot of changes in the repositories in the next few weeks. You can get the mirrorlist from repo.manjaro.org. wink

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#69 2012-08-02 13:55:24

ying
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-03-02
Posts: 110

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Back again. Check out our blog wink

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#70 2012-08-02 14:34:12

SanskritFritz
Member
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2009-01-08
Posts: 1,615
Website

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

ying wrote:

Back again. Check out our blog wink

You guys seem to go on a route similar to Chakra. Good luck and have fun with Manjaro!


zʇıɹɟʇıɹʞsuɐs AUR || Cycling in Budapest with a helmet camera || Revised log levels proposal: "FYI" "WTF" and "OMG" (John Barnette)

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#71 2012-08-02 19:37:40

ying
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-03-02
Posts: 110

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Hi,
no actually we will stay compatible to Arch. We made our own repos due to stability wink Phil Miller, previous Chakra project leader, has joined our team and we won't reexperience the mistakes of Chakra wink

Roland

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#72 2012-08-02 19:48:04

SanskritFritz
Member
From: Budapest, Hungary
Registered: 2009-01-08
Posts: 1,615
Website

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

What mistakes if I may ask?


zʇıɹɟʇıɹʞsuɐs AUR || Cycling in Budapest with a helmet camera || Revised log levels proposal: "FYI" "WTF" and "OMG" (John Barnette)

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#73 2012-08-02 19:58:09

ying
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-03-02
Posts: 110

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Removing all GTk apps, keeping a kernel without any updates for a few months,... phil can tell you more about it.... wink

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#74 2012-08-06 16:50:52

ying
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-03-02
Posts: 110

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Whatever wink

Last edited by ying (2012-08-06 23:43:36)

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#75 2012-08-27 21:56:47

Black_Sector
Member
Registered: 2012-08-27
Posts: 1

Re: Manjaro Linux Distribution

Frankly, I do not really care what Stallman and the FSF thinks. I respect Stallman on a lot of levels, and I appreciate his contributions to free software. However, he is not a reliable source of information when it comes to stuff like this, despite writing the GPL. Linus is an objective expert on the version of the GPL that the kernel is released under, and deals with these legal issues every day of his life. Stallman has an agenda to destroy the existence of software patents by use of copyright. He gets upset if Debian even offers the CHOICE to download optional third party repositories, even though Debian's definition of free software is more liberating for the end-user than the FSF's definition is.

I do not mean to be 'ablest' in my observation here but I do not know how to otherwise make my point.....Something is a little 'off' about Richard Stallman. He could be on the functional Autism scale (which is not necessarily a bad thing), but he seems to have it a lot worse than most people I know with aspergers. With Stallman it is very visibly obvious if you watch him in public. Stallman will do some VERY odd things in front of a crowd which I will not mention out of respect, and he will stand there oblivious to their reaction. He doesn't 'get it'. He is a poor front man for Linux because he does not understand other humans. He is highly intelligent within his own sphere of expertise, but he also seems to have tunnel vision when it comes to social issues.

Stallman has been involved in projects to bring 'free software' to latin America. Does anyone want to guess why it has not caught on? The distro he created lacks a graphical installer.....which is perfectly fine for us hackers, but I do not see Arch-Linux claiming to be a noob friendly distro intended for introducing developing nations to  technology. It is too difficult for children and most of society to install, so it already fails to 'introduce' the technology to anyone....In fact, it probably does more to scare people off and crush their self esteem when they cannot figure out how to install it. Then when they finally get it installed on their system, the wireless drivers and other proprietary hardware might not work....and without wifi they might not even be able to get online to learn how to fix it. Stallman expects these people to run out and buy new hardware that is 'open source', which shows the extent of his naivety in regard to social issues. People in the developing world are lucky to HAVE a computer, considering that food and shelter is cheaper by their local economic standards but a lot of imported technology is still priced for the west. Expecting these people to run out and buy new hardware is obnoxious and is the epitome of western hubris, and not effectively a remedy to class division he claims to oppose. I prefer free software applications, but I see absolutely zero benefit to denying access to proprietary drivers and codecs, ESPECIALLY in the developing world. The only way such a thing could "help" free software would be if it forces manufacturers to produce open drivers for market reasons, but desktop linux does not have the market share for that, and we will not have the market share for that if people experience Linux as not reliably supporting wifi or 3d graphics or as being able to play their favorite media. It is a cache 22. Linus at least understands how to negotiate with corporations (like Nvidia), while maintaining the usefulness of the system.

FYI, I am a proponent of intellectual freedom. I come from an Anarcho-Syndicalist tradition. My friends from Spain were members of the CNT, and I am a member of the IWW (even though I am self employed). I am anti-capitalist and oppose pretty much all models of intellectual property, even trademark if it is used to monopolize characters and the like, though I do see a limited justification in verifying the producer......Though brand names itself does not prove who the producer is sometimes, just like how IBM/Lonovo has their corporate class factories and their 'consumer' class factories both producing for the same brand...Trademark in itself is not a sure way to verify a products manufacturer. Copyright has some useful applications in this society, but ultimately Stallman wishes to attack one form of intellectual property with another. His approach was actually quite clever, though he was very wrong about GPL effectively destroying the existence of intellectual property in his lifetime and he is bitter about it.


Notice that Stallman chose a computer that had the most open bios.....but it came out of a Chinese factory that probably had poor standards for workers and the environment. It shows his single minded obsession with a singular issue to the exclusion of other social causes. He thinks free software will fix everything for everyone, and expects people to quit their job if they need to run a proprietary application to do it...He says that the end-users are immoral for using the software, rather than putting the blame squarely on the corporations who produce it. I find that position absolutely obnoxious, though I otherwise sympathize with his views against patents and technology monopolies. However, the monopoly on land and capital is just as fundamental if not MORE fundamental, and GPL software is not going to fix everyones social problems if the corporations own all the land and water in their country.....It may help some upstart companies get off the ground who rely on office software, but it is not a cure-all if you do not embrace a wider spectrum of social awareness. Pirated Windows XP is more popular than Linux in the developing world, partly because Stallman is so obtuse when it comes to making things easy for people.



Back on topic for Manjaro: I think it is a good noob friendly distro for new users. I have no problem with them having the proprietary drivers, though I like to be able to have the choice to use them or not. For password cracking I require the closed source drivers to take advantage of Cuda and ATI technology. However, the open ATI drivers are becoming suitable for 3d gaming as of kernel 3.5, while Nvidia has the better proprietary driver but an inferior open driver. I like to be able to seamlessly hotswap between drivers and only use the proprietary drivers 'as needed', and not unless I actually need them. I would like to be able to turn the proprietary wifi drivers on and off, just so my system can try a libre default and only enable proprietary as it is necessary.


Including both video drivers is NOT a GPL violation. However, it might violate the software standards of the FSF, which is irrelevant to most people who just want to get online and for their computer to work out of the box reliably.

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