systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

fredbezies · 2012-02-19 22:20:32

Installed systemd, everything worked fine until I needed to do file search a DVD I burnt 1 month ago.

Automount didn't work, and double clicking on dvd icon in Nautilus throw me this error :

Error mounting: mount exited with exit code 1: helper failed with:
mount: mount point /media/cdrom does not exist

Got also this in my .xsession-errors log :

JS LOG: Unable to mount volume Disque de données (08 janv. 12): Error: Error invoking Gio.mount_finish: Error mounting: mount exited with exit code 1: helper failed with:
mount: mount point /media/cdrom does not exist

Deactivating helped me getting back DVD mounting.

Opened a bug on archlinux bugtracker : https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/28529

Did anybody get same error ?

fredbezies · 2012-02-20 07:03:35

Another question : When I wanted to install systemd-sysvcompat package, I got this :

[fred@fredo-arch ~]$ sudo pacman -S systemd-sysvcompat
résolution des dépendances...
recherche des conflits entre paquets...
:: systemd-sysvcompat et sysvinit sont en conflit. Supprimer sysvinit ? [o/N] n
Erreur : un conflit de paquets impossible à résoudre a été détecté
Erreur : la préparation de la transaction a échoué (conflit de dépendances)
:: systemd-sysvcompat et sysvinit sont en conflit

=> conflicting package, and when I say yes, my /etc/rc.conf is deleted

As I don't want to lose my /etc/rc.conf, is there any options ?

Last edited by fredbezies (2012-02-20 07:04:10)

sidneyk · 2012-02-20 11:06:04

fredbezies wrote:

Another question : When I wanted to install systemd-sysvcompat package, I got this :
[fred@fredo-arch ~]$ sudo pacman -S systemd-sysvcompat
résolution des dépendances...
recherche des conflits entre paquets...
:: systemd-sysvcompat et sysvinit sont en conflit. Supprimer sysvinit ? [o/N] n
Erreur : un conflit de paquets impossible à résoudre a été détecté
Erreur : la préparation de la transaction a échoué (conflit de dépendances)
:: systemd-sysvcompat et sysvinit sont en conflit
=> conflicting package, and when I say yes, my /etc/rc.conf is deleted
As I don't want to lose my /etc/rc.conf, is there any options ?

That happens, I believe, because rc.conf is part of the initscripts package, which requires sysvinit. When you install systemd-sysvcompat package it conflicts with sysvinit and sysvinit and apparently anything that depends on sysvinit will be removed when you say yes to the above question from pacman. I didn't realize it would do that because I already had initscripts and sysvinit uninstalled before I installed systemd-sysvcompat. You could make a backup, say rc.conf.old or something, but you probably just need to find the systemd equivalents.

Last edited by sidneyk (2012-02-20 11:08:54)

fredbezies · 2012-02-20 12:47:01

Well, I will wait until systemd is mandatory to install it. I do prefer (and from far) /etc/rc.conf management. Far simpler and KISS compatible than systemd.

Thanks for your answer.

lucke · 2012-02-20 13:07:51

You don't have to install systemd-sysvcompat to use systemd. You can keep original initscripts and rc.conf. I myself have removed initscripts, but I still keep rc.conf, /etc/rc.d/network and /etc/rc.d/functions, to have my static wired network setup working, without resorting to networkmanager or netcfg (there is apparently no .service file for net-profiles anyway, just for net-auto-wired).

fredbezies · 2012-02-20 14:22:35

Ok. But why it is horribly slow on shutdown. With old initscripts, my computer shuts down in about 15 seconds.

With systemd, I have to press power button because it is not shut down after 1 minute...

lucke · 2012-02-20 14:26:35

It should shutdown pretty much instantly.

fredbezies · 2012-02-20 14:33:42

lucke wrote:

It should shutdown pretty much instantly.

It should, but it is not the case. This is another reason why I uninstalled systemd for now.

ron9 · 2012-02-20 14:45:46

lucke wrote:

I still keep rc.conf, /etc/rc.d/network and /etc/rc.d/functions, to have my static wired network setup working, without resorting to networkmanager or netcfg.

You can use a service file for your static network. I use this for my static wireless network. It is really fast.
I had some failure (maybe ones a week) before I put in Requires= and After= because system device wasn't ready.
Try something like this and change to your device and ip address:

[Unit]
Description=Wireless Network Connectivity
Requires=sys-devices-pci0000:00-0000:00:1c.1-0000:03:00.0-net-wlan0.device
After=sys-devices-pci0000:00-0000:00:1c.1-0000:03:00.0-net-wlan0.device

[Service]
Type=oneshot
RemainAfterExit=yes
ExecStart=/sbin/ip link set wlan0 up ; /sbin/ip addr add 10.252.82.10/24 dev wlan0 ; /sbin/ip route add default via 10.252.82.1
ExecStop=/sbin/ip link set wlan0 down

[Install]
WantedBy=multi-user.target.

Earnestly · 2012-02-20 14:45:56

fredbezies wrote:

With old initscripts, my computer shuts down in about 15 seconds.

That's exceptionally slow even for initscripts.

fredbezies · 2012-02-20 14:47:50

Kaustic wrote:

fredbezies wrote:
With old initscripts, my computer shuts down in about 15 seconds.
That's exceptionally slow even for initscripts.

15 seconds is the worst I've ever seen. 10 seconds is more frequent.

lucke · 2012-02-20 15:07:39

Thanks, ron9. I thought of creating such a service file, but didn't get around to it yet.

ron9 · 2012-02-20 16:55:29

fredbezies wrote:

Kaustic wrote:
fredbezies wrote:
With old initscripts, my computer shuts down in about 15 seconds.
That's exceptionally slow even for initscripts.
15 seconds is the worst I've ever seen. 10 seconds is more frequent.

Try systemctl -f poweroff in terminal

alex_pa · 2012-02-20 17:27:02

fredbezies wrote:

Installed systemd, everything worked fine until I needed to do file search a DVD I burnt 1 month ago.
Automount didn't work, and double clicking on dvd icon in Nautilus throw me this error :
Error mounting: mount exited with exit code 1: helper failed with:
mount: mount point /media/cdrom does not exist
Got also this in my .xsession-errors log :
JS LOG: Unable to mount volume Disque de données (08 janv. 12): Error: Error invoking Gio.mount_finish: Error mounting: mount exited with exit code 1: helper failed with:
mount: mount point /media/cdrom does not exist
Deactivating helped me getting back DVD mounting.
Opened a bug on archlinux bugtracker : https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/28529
Did anybody get same error ?

This is probably because '/media' is a tmpfs mounted by systemd (and it's empty by default), if you have an entry for your dvd in fstab, change the mount point to '/mnt/cdrom' (and create that dir there) or just delete it from fstab. I don't have any fstab entries for dvd-rw drive but it still works ok.

Last edited by alex_pa (2012-02-20 17:27:45)

blackout23 · 2012-02-21 13:50:11

I tried to read most of the 48 pages. Is it worth it to try systemd?
Many people seem to run into trouble, but I still don't get
what the big benefit of systemd is.

ilpianista · 2012-02-21 13:58:27

blackout23 wrote:

what the big benefit of systemd is.

I suggest you to read http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html

blackout23 · 2012-02-21 14:09:21

bash wrote:

blackout23 wrote:
what the big benefit of systemd is.
I suggest you to read http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html

Thanks this post is extremely helpful. Just what I was looking for.
The summary gives an excellent explanation.

Earnestly · 2012-02-21 20:04:52

bash wrote:

I suggest you to read http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/why.html

I'm sorry, but that was one of the worst "comparisons" I've seen (which tries to be serious).
Now, I have no invested interest in either Init system (I don't know much about either), but that article comes across to me as extremely egotistical and deliberately trying to spread FUD.

Now there's probably a lot of good reasons to support that megaton of features (what can I say? I like ArchLinux and the appeal of "The Unix Way"), but holy balls batman you need to find a better article which rationally discusses the advantages and disadvantages. There was a rather good comment on this "method" of comparison, he posted a picture which was both apt and amusing: http://i.imgur.com/usftZ.png

Anyway, don't mean to derail this thread, but that article was pretty infuriating for someone who's interested in trying systemd. If anyone has a reasonable comparison please share it (while I continue to hunt down more information with some googlefu).

PS: Oh, and apparently SysV can't do fsck nor does it have a GUI. Really? Not to mention the random hate given to different SCMs.

PReP · 2012-02-22 00:21:49

Using less daemons, and less bloat when booting, leads to very fast boot and shutdown with the default initscripts imo.
And to keep things as slim as workably (no a real word i know) possible,
is something i prefer then to try to make bloated systems load faster, parallell service starting or not.

And "very old computers still take x amounts of seconds to boot", is something i don't feel are entirely a good reason either.

I dunno, it also does not seem, as i've followed the systemd mailing lists, or this thread, that systemd is easier to manage,
or gives more control - atleast not yet.

Also, i don't want to go blaming a single person, i don't know pottering or what his dreams are,
but sometimes, his "projects" seem to me like bloated aliases for things that already works quite well,
or - a way to get the same results, with another formatted config.

Last edited by PReP (2012-02-22 19:44:57)

alex_pa · 2012-02-23 17:31:47

Damn Windows! I had to create a custom unit for systemd to set my hwclock to localtime at boot, because windows can't handle hwclock in UTC properly. Time is going crazy with 'RealTimeIsUniversal=1' - windows reports correct time a few minutes after bootup, but after 10 min or so time jumps 2 hours backwards (my local time is GMT+2) and if you correct this it will jump backwards again in another 10 min

Trilby · 2012-02-23 22:24:11

Thanks Kaustic, I got a laugh out of that image - primarily because it was just what I was thinking when I read the original comparison.

I'm trying to keep my ear to the ground on systemd, but I just don't "get it". Early on it seemed to have many limitations, which is expected for anything new. But many people seemed to get excited when it started doing things "almost as well" as the current system. If something is supposed to be an improvement shouldn't the bar be set higher than doing things just as well as the present system?

Anyhoo, I don't know nearly enough to criticize, but I too am interested in balanced assessments of the pros and cons. Much of the info I've seen has been "full of sound and fury ..."

sidneyk · 2012-02-23 22:32:49

alex_pa wrote:

Damn Windows! I had to create a custom unit for systemd to set my hwclock to localtime at boot, because windows can't handle hwclock in UTC properly. Time is going crazy with 'RealTimeIsUniversal=1' - windows reports correct time a few minutes after bootup, but after 10 min or so time jumps 2 hours backwards (my local time is GMT+2) and if you correct this it will jump backwards again in another 10 min

You didn't say which Windows, but Windows 7_x64 Professional handles it well with the aforementioned registry key in the right place. Set Windows time to local time and set the appropriate time zone. I also set Windows to never update the time from the Internet. Then reboot, set your CMOS clock to UTC time and then boot Arch and get rid of that local time service and make sure you have the appropriate time zone set there also. You may have to boot back and forth a couple times, making sure the CMOS clock is set properly to UTC in between, but within a couple boots the 2 will be synched and correct.

Last edited by sidneyk (2012-02-24 04:31:40)

lucke · 2012-02-23 23:23:51

I prefer systemd over initscripts for a number of reasons:

- it boots and shutdowns faster (in big part thanks to readahead, which can be done with regular initscripts),
- the only thing I get on my screen when booting are the results of fsck,
- I get a proper overview of the running services, I can see why something has failed to run and I can see last lines from the log pertaining to the given service,
- I can have services run only when they're needed (cups, sshd),
- I can have automounting,
- it can remove old files from /tmp,
- it can continue booting while fscking non-root partitions,
- it can start gettys on demand,
- applications get shut down properly more readily (opera doesn't complain about an unclean shutdown, smplayer remembers the position of the movie - at least in KDE and LXDE, for some reason it doesn't seem to work in GNOME).
- it seems to tackle dependency resolving and parallel startup nicely,
- it seems to track processes nicely,
- the devs strive to "fix" multiseat (get rid of consolekit?),
- the devs seem to be adding new features all the time, so perhaps there's more goodies to come,
- unification of the init system among the distros sounds like a positive thing.

The cons? I can't read or modify the executables like I can bash scripts, it eats 2 MB of my memory more than the regular init, sometimes (perhaps after updates?) it doesn't proceed with shutting down - killing processes with magic sysrq makes it continue.

Similarly, I find pulseaudio to have many advantages over pure ALSA.

Last edited by lucke (2012-02-23 23:24:49)

Trilby · 2012-02-23 23:40:36

Thanks Lucke, that's an informative list - particularly because I can look at it and assess what would be of value to me. Faster boot time is always cool, but other than that none of these appeal or apply to me. I see why they could appeal to some, just for my circumstances nothing but boot time jumps out.

Last edited by Trilby (2012-02-23 23:40:57)

alex_pa · 2012-02-24 06:38:25

sidneyk wrote:

You didn't say which Windows, but Windows 7_x64 Professional handles it well with the aforementioned registry key in the right place.

Sorry, I forgot to mention it It's Windows XP. I know that rtc in localtime is bad, but at least I can configure it in Arch. MS won't fix it for sure.

Arch Linux

#1176 2012-02-19 22:20:32

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1177 2012-02-20 07:03:35

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1178 2012-02-20 11:06:04

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1179 2012-02-20 12:47:01

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1180 2012-02-20 13:07:51

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1181 2012-02-20 14:22:35

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1182 2012-02-20 14:26:35

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1183 2012-02-20 14:33:42

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1184 2012-02-20 14:45:46

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1185 2012-02-20 14:45:56

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1186 2012-02-20 14:47:50

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1187 2012-02-20 15:07:39

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1188 2012-02-20 16:55:29

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1189 2012-02-20 17:27:02

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1190 2012-02-21 13:50:11

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1191 2012-02-21 13:58:27

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1192 2012-02-21 14:09:21

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1193 2012-02-21 20:04:52

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1194 2012-02-22 00:21:49

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1195 2012-02-23 17:31:47

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1196 2012-02-23 22:24:11

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1197 2012-02-23 22:32:49

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1198 2012-02-23 23:23:51

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1199 2012-02-23 23:40:36

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

#1200 2012-02-24 06:38:25

Re: systemd: Yet Another Init Replacement

Board footer