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#1 2011-07-23 23:45:53

ScionicSpectre
Member
Registered: 2011-06-25
Posts: 98

Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

I've put together a short, three-page paper for the most often cited reasons people have for shying away from Linux as a full-time OS. That is, the most often cited challenges that are also the most difficult to resolve- Adobe, Autodesk, and videogames.

My reason for this is to pull together a short analysis with a description of the problem and the most pragmatic solutions available. I'd like your feedback on what I could do to edit this paper to make it more concise, powerful, or accurate (it is meant as a general guide).

Of course, I know many people will disagree with me, but I think many more will agree with the basic premise of the article. Please give it a short read and tell me what you think.

P.S. I'll be adding some sources later where I find them to be necessary.

Pastebin link (if there is a more preferable site to upload to, please let me know).

Last edited by ScionicSpectre (2011-07-24 00:35:36)

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#2 2011-07-24 00:07:58

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,176

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

0. I have never heard of autodesk
1. Thanks to AUR/odt2txt, I could read this obscure format. I hope this paper doesn't have anything that might be lost when converted to pure text.
2. wah wah wah?
3. It looks like a board post. It reads like a board post. Why the hassle with all the downloading, converting and piping through less?
4. I read it twice, but I can't find the most pragmatic solutions you were talking about. What about HTML5<>Adobe?
5. Solution to what by the way? All I can see is the fact, that there are people who prefer something else. Your post reads like it is imperative that everyone is enlightened.

Summary: Linux CAD sucks and Linux gaming sucks. Platform exclusivity sucks as well.

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#3 2011-07-24 00:29:10

ScionicSpectre
Member
Registered: 2011-06-25
Posts: 98

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that it's imperative that everyone be involved. Only that people who prefer Adobe/Autodesk software can have a solution on Linux through the means I mention. I think it's great if you don't have any needs that aren't met by Linux, and if you do then this paper is for you (or Windows/OS X is for you, obviously). I felt like it was a bit too much information to include in a post by itself (TL|DR). I agree that if it were practical for Adobe and Autodesk to port their software to HTML5 it would be the better option, but there are bottlenecks and complications there that wouldn't exist with a native port.

I preferred the formatting of the original document for readability, but I think I'll upload a raw text file as an option for people who don't care for getting a program that reads ODF formats.

I'll take what you've said into account in my next revision of the document. And in advance, if you don't care about these issues, I'm not imploring that you or anyone else start caring. I just think a Linux forum is a likely place to find people who have heard of these problems and might care about resolving them for themselves or their friends some time in the future.

Last edited by ScionicSpectre (2011-07-24 00:44:25)

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#4 2011-07-24 00:34:33

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,427

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

A nice read, but what am I supposed to do with people who think Linux is a game character, like Mario? They use 'computers' or 'the internet' and they're fine with it (most of the time).
Companies want stable systems, stable applications. Photoshop in the late 90's was already great and setting up a printer, scanner and even a digital camera on Win98 wasn't a big deal. In my relatively limited experience, usually it just worked.

I can share some links for people who care about 'alternative systems' evangelism:

https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=19256
Windows needed for tax software & online banking is something I thought a thing of the past.

There's also http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_op … e_packages

http://alternativeto.net
http://linuxappfinder.com/alternatives
http://www.linuxalt.com
http://www.linuxlinks.com

Last edited by karol (2011-07-24 00:56:15)

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#5 2011-07-24 00:41:22

ScionicSpectre
Member
Registered: 2011-06-25
Posts: 98

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

I'll do some research, but for now I think I might include tax software in the introduction next to iTunes, since I think it comes up about as often, and might not be too difficult to solve (many institutions have online applications available with the same features, working for Linux browsers). I should say that I think Tax software is more important than little things like iTunes, and I've had 2 installations I've done become dual-boots because of it. Definitely something to consider- thanks for reading, you guys.

Last edited by ScionicSpectre (2011-07-24 00:43:38)

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#6 2011-07-24 02:44:44

ScionicSpectre
Member
Registered: 2011-06-25
Posts: 98

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

While I think Linux can fit into the lives of those people who don't know what an OS is (much resistance is to the public image or perceived difficulty- I'm not saying everyone should be using Arch, or even Linux for that matter), it obviously fits in better for people who, say, know how to download and install Firefox for themselves.

Smartphones have shown that people can adapt quite easily to different interfaces and ideas of how to manage their software. I don't think modern Linux distributions are any more difficult than their community these days. But of course, the point is that free software CAN suit your needs, not that it will replace Windows on every desktop in the world. Convincing people to use Linux doesn't make any sense unless they want to use it in the first place. Educating people about free and open source software makes a bit more sense.

By the way, some good resources Karol- I found them enlightening. I was both amused and intrigued by FSF's high priority project list.

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#7 2011-08-01 12:45:54

X-dark
Member
From: France
Registered: 2009-10-25
Posts: 135
Website

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

There is one showstopper that you forget: MS Office. At work, I use Linux but need to launch Windows inside a Virtualbox each time I need to edit a document. Libreoffice/OpenOffice is OK to read most documents (PPTX may be the area where it's still difficult) but if you try saving a document with it, you are almost certain to break style and formatting.


Cedric Girard

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#8 2011-08-01 13:11:13

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,427

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

X-dark wrote:

There is one showstopper that you forget: MS Office. At work, I use Linux but need to launch Windows inside a Virtualbox each time I need to edit a document. Libreoffice/OpenOffice is OK to read most documents (PPTX may be the area where it's still difficult) but if you try saving a document with it, you are almost certain to break style and formatting.

I think OP meant apps that don't have their free replacements. If you use only LibreOffice in your workflow so you don't have to convert between MS Office and LibreOffice, you should be fine.

There's no FLOSS app that does what Photoshop or AutoCAD is capable of.

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#9 2011-08-01 13:20:32

X-dark
Member
From: France
Registered: 2009-10-25
Posts: 135
Website

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

karol wrote:

I think OP meant apps that don't have their free replacements. If you use only LibreOffice in your workflow so you don't have to convert between MS Office and LibreOffice, you should be fine.

Except:
* In a professional environment, you does not always have the choice of the document format. If you send odt files you'll get complaint from people/client not being able to read it.
* Most people keep using Windows because of MS Office, not because of Adobe or Autodesk software that have a less generalized usage.

But yes, if I write document I am the only one to edit, I use ODF format or LaTeX.


Cedric Girard

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#10 2011-08-01 13:25:44

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,427

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

X-dark wrote:

* Most people keep using Windows because of MS Office, not because of Adobe or Autodesk software that have a less generalized usage.

Good point. We can say MS Office + games is what keeps the average consumer [1] from switching and various Adobe and Autodesk products are indispensable for the pros.


[1] The are many hardcore gamers that don't really fit in the 'average consumer' group ;P

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#11 2011-08-17 08:58:34

ScionicSpectre
Member
Registered: 2011-06-25
Posts: 98

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

I quite agree, although I'd note that the bigger problem than file formats are the people who use MS Office for their work databases. There are open packages that plug into these enterprise systems, but they are not always entirely seamless. MS Office from 2007 onward allows you to open ODF formats and even set them as the default format, but if I remember correctly they don't support the latest version of the ODF standard. Also, many businesses stick to old versions of Windows and MS Office. Microsoft has formally collaborated with the team that does the ODF conversion plugin for Office, however, so that's a plus. I think if someone has the right version of Office, sending them an .odt is about as bad as sending them a .docx. Of course, making people confused/uncomfortable isn't the best way to prove the point, and businesses are about running smoothly, not thinking about software.

So yes, totally forgot about it, just because most people I talk to are talking about their freelance work or home use. Luckily, designers have a bit more flexible of a work flow on average than a typical office. Open standards catch on much better in design than in business, as it's a necessity, not merely an option.

Office runs in WINE, of course, but not every version works. That's another reason why I sort of ignored it, since some Adobe and Autodesk applications don't work in WINE regardless of the version you use. Also, generally people don't have issues saving/opening documents between LibreOffice and MS Office unless it's a highly formatted document utilizing high level features of Word and Excel. Having nothing like After Effects isn't something you can easily work around. I will of course add Microsoft Office to the list next time (even though the title wouldn't be as catchy tongue), although I think we are far closer to successfully interoperating with it, what with the international pressure on Microsoft to discontinue monopolistic behavior. People usually don't think about Adobe's design software domination as a monopoly, unfortunately.

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#12 2012-04-03 11:29:07

cyberpunkarch
Banned
From: New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: 2012-03-16
Posts: 36
Website

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

Ok ScionicSpectre I read you form and i hear yeah, what you are saying is true. The thing is with most pc games are all program for direct x and not so much on OpenGL but i'll give Kudos to ID Software for some games in OpenGL, but the sad thing is they have to redo the entire games that are ported for pc windows gaming for the linux / mac / bsd  (unix platform) I gave up pc gaming for a Power User of Arch Linux , and even though I really enjoy the benifit of windows for pc gaming, I didn't like windows at all, their controlling on all companies and products in the market, and shoving out linux in the gutter, as well linux came along ways , and i've been using linux / unix systems for about 15 years and i always love the great benifits of linux for great hardware support, and great security and how light weight arch linux is most canadian distro are very light weight, for example Puppy Linux which i used alot over the years in the past :],  now the sad thing is PC gaming as i tried to put fallout 3 with playonlinux when they say its GOLD in winehq it doesn't work with the newer wine.

Wine suppose to go forward, but to me its going backwards, they support windows app for their needs, and not for the community demands,  people don't use linux because of pc gaming, and linux need to really focus on that,, they already master the business FRONT END , for security and stable server systems. the web host are on Linux / Bsd systems and we all know why , great support and great security in the kernel :] and that what golden linux alot and what linux is know for .. its known more for Server OS instead for a actually full blown desktop... but now of days thanks to google we get more apps for the internet and more people switch for that approach , but the lack of support from other companies, like Yahoo for one thing competely ignore the linux users ... and yes gaim / pidgin been doing great for yahoo chat and text support but very lazy and not up to date with voice / video chat and i dont see how hard that can be man.

Gyachi / gyache suppose to have "voice chat" but i never seen anybody got pyvoice working lately LOL, and yes video chat works, but the sourceforge code is not updated offend and now yahoo change their captcha and have having problems, no boot protection for yahoo and its really pissing me off.

Pidgin been a very long wait for them to switch to 3.0 and they need to kick their self in the ass for yahoo support as i see ALOT of linux user want it and demand it, and its funny how they focus on google talk which nobody gives a flying fuck about ... most people want to use yahoo and most people want to use pc gaming,, they dont like windows but they should give us all the support that the user want, if linux want to progress and stay sharp ,  they have to target kids and younger people i respect the traditional unix geek. i do love the unix system and its lightweight and all that nice stuff and scripting and bash shell scripting , perl and python LUA and C its all fun and u learn alot using linux system and i mean that u do.

but to get people more invole and u got to think of the future , and i you want linux to keep going and not die out like unix did, you got to give back what people want, i know you get alot of people like me saying GIVE PC GAMING SUPPORT MORE MAKE BETTER YAHOO MESSENGER / CHAT SUPPORT and how many time do we have to say and repeat until we get the point where people not using linux because lack of features in linux in today world 2012 this is not 1998 man so its time to wake up and move forward , and not backwards.

I say arch linux do got a nice community , but i also see alot of the are lazy and not give people help with their own good will, they just link u a fucking arch wiki form and not try to help you, i see the community is more lazy and not giving a fuck anymore, linux is getting bad and i mean i love it and i support it 100% but im traditional, if people ask for my help i give it all i got, i love to teach and i love to help out, i dont give people links, thats not the linux way man... linux / unix principals are K.I.S.S. and if that in arch linux it should be alot of support and help the future of linux.. i'm the future.. i see lack of help and lack of interest of what people want and u laugh and act like smart asses and thinking u know alot, and which u may but u are being like microsoft / apple acting high class and ignoring the public. which make users just end up not using linux.

I writing this because this is how i feel about the community i see alot of half asses in the community lately and its fucking sad.

I wish i can have more people like me that willing do their best to make linux #1 top dog eh !!!! arch linux started in canada by judd vinet and he fucking made what arch is today man.. since it been pass down i see arch went down eh... and i think it should be better .. we ace the server end part,, now focus on the fun of computers, GAMING is #1 and all u geeks and nerds and hardcore gamers can agree we need to shape the fuck up and get our ass in gear man. and support should be more friendly and people should give and help out more,, THATS WHAT GNU is all about and what richard stallman is all about.. not half ass ... FULL SUPPORT,

Gary


WM: Awesome
DM: GDM3
OS: Arch Linux 64bit vanilla
PC: ASUSTek M2A-VM [AMD] 8GB of Memory Cooler-Master Elite 330

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#13 2012-04-03 13:37:10

Bellum
Member
Registered: 2011-08-24
Posts: 230

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

Awebb wrote:

Linux gaming sucks.

I've been having a lot of fun playing games on Linux, actually. tongue

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#14 2012-04-03 13:48:54

cyberpunkarch
Banned
From: New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: 2012-03-16
Posts: 36
Website

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

Bellum wrote:
Awebb wrote:

Linux gaming sucks.

I've been having a lot of fun playing games on Linux, actually. tongue


should make a forum on how you done that because i tried some games with wine 1.5 and no avail i also use play on linux no avail.. what did u done to get all this up and going eh ? can you used pirate crack games ur do u need the orginal copy because i dont buy games or i dont buy anything i'm all about open source and free stuff and pirate stuff that cost money for.. lol fuck the sytem man!


WM: Awesome
DM: GDM3
OS: Arch Linux 64bit vanilla
PC: ASUSTek M2A-VM [AMD] 8GB of Memory Cooler-Master Elite 330

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#15 2012-04-03 14:48:04

jgreen1tc
Member
From: St. Louis
Registered: 2011-05-16
Posts: 247

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

cyberpunkarch wrote:
Bellum wrote:
Awebb wrote:

Linux gaming sucks.

I've been having a lot of fun playing games on Linux, actually. tongue


should make a forum on how you done that because i tried some games with wine 1.5 and no avail i also use play on linux no avail.. what did u done to get all this up and going eh ? can you used pirate crack games ur do u need the orginal copy because i dont buy games or i dont buy anything i'm all about open source and free stuff and pirate stuff that cost money for.. lol fuck the sytem man!

There are already wiki's and tutorials out there.

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#16 2012-04-03 15:13:27

cyberpunkarch
Banned
From: New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: 2012-03-16
Posts: 36
Website

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

jgreen1tc wrote:
cyberpunkarch wrote:
Bellum wrote:

I've been having a lot of fun playing games on Linux, actually. tongue


should make a forum on how you done that because i tried some games with wine 1.5 and no avail i also use play on linux no avail.. what did u done to get all this up and going eh ? can you used pirate crack games ur do u need the orginal copy because i dont buy games or i dont buy anything i'm all about open source and free stuff and pirate stuff that cost money for.. lol fuck the sytem man!

There are already wiki's and tutorials out there.


Ok you posting it to me would be a very Arch Linux way of helping the community ?? ?? just saying thanks for that but i did search if you got the source to share, please do , Thank you


WM: Awesome
DM: GDM3
OS: Arch Linux 64bit vanilla
PC: ASUSTek M2A-VM [AMD] 8GB of Memory Cooler-Master Elite 330

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#17 2012-04-03 15:28:41

Bellum
Member
Registered: 2011-08-24
Posts: 230

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

I don't know what to tell you, bro man. Most of the games I've tried in wine work next to flawlessly, though I'm stuck on an older computer and don't play any brand-new AAA games. The only games I've played on Wine that I've had to do something difficult for is EverQuest, otherwise winecfg and winetricks has everything you need. Most of the problems I've had running games are driver problems. Legacy nvidia users like me are stuck with nouveau and nouveau sucks.

That said, if you only want to support free and open source games, you should eat your own dogfood and play free and open source games. There are a small handfull of really good ones: Battle for Wesnoth comes to mind. I've played a lot of Urban Terror. You could try Xonotic, if you've got a computer that can handle it (I don't think mine could).

Also, dosbox works great in Linux and there are a lot of great dos games out there. I play a ton of minecraft, myself, which runs in Java. Java games usually work fine in Linux.

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#18 2012-04-03 15:37:10

jgreen1tc
Member
From: St. Louis
Registered: 2011-05-16
Posts: 247

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

cyberpunkarch wrote:

Ok you posting it to me would be a very Arch Linux way of helping the community ?? ?? just saying thanks for that but i did search if you got the source to share, please do , Thank you

Sure:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wine+tutorial+linux
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wine+arch+wiki

Why do you act so helpless? It's your computer. Do the research - the material is there. Holding peoples hands for issues that are well documented is not beneficial to the community.

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#19 2012-04-03 15:50:31

litemotiv
Forum Fellow
Registered: 2008-08-01
Posts: 5,026

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

jgreen1tc wrote:

Why do you act so helpless?

Considering his earlier mantra, i suspect it's some form of Wiki Welfare he feels he's entitled to.


ᶘ ᵒᴥᵒᶅ

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#20 2012-04-03 18:01:48

cyberpunkarch
Banned
From: New Brunswick, Canada
Registered: 2012-03-16
Posts: 36
Website

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)

Dicks! ! !

haha thanks for the link eh..

and i tried fallout 3 doesnt work i tried out devil may cry 3 and 4 both doesnt work fallout new vegas doesnt work lol... shitty because they all work very nicely with 1.1+ to 1.3 but with the new wine 1.5 seems like wineHQ going backwards instead of forward because lack of game support now.. i dont want play shit old pc games i want to play today games that i can run in windows 7.. but i guess not and i dont want to be on windows 7 i want to be on arch be nice if they put more effort in gaming on linux and as well for yahooo chat clients


WM: Awesome
DM: GDM3
OS: Arch Linux 64bit vanilla
PC: ASUSTek M2A-VM [AMD] 8GB of Memory Cooler-Master Elite 330

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#21 2012-04-03 19:38:48

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 12,736

Re: Adobe, Autodesk, and Games (a review)


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Like you, I have no idea what you are doing, but I am pretty sure it is wrong...Jasonwryan
----
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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