You are not logged in.

#26 2012-03-16 05:04:56

hadrons123
Member
From: chennai
Registered: 2011-10-07
Posts: 1,249

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

@Inxsible
Liked your explanation.


LENOVO Y 580 IVYBRIDGE 660M NVIDIA
Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with. - Steven King

Offline

#27 2012-03-22 06:04:03

rz
Member
From: Jita
Registered: 2012-01-11
Posts: 17
Website

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

tomk wrote:
hadrons123 wrote:

patching does improve stability and reliablity.

You sure about that? You have some examples for us?

Debian


There's 52 ways to murder anyone. One and two are the same and they both work as well.

Offline

#28 2012-03-22 06:18:53

/dev/zero
Member
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 1,176
Website

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

I tend not to trust assertions that don't come with such colourful little appendages as references, data, logical argument, etc. Hell, even personal anecdotes are better than nothing.


Linux is NOT Windows | The Rootless Root
Toshiba Satellite i5-3230M 2.6GHz CPUs, 4Gb RAM, ArchLinux, wmii, nVidia GeForce GT 740M.

Offline

#29 2012-03-22 06:30:27

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,834

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

rz wrote:
tomk wrote:
hadrons123 wrote:

patching does improve stability and reliablity.

You sure about that? You have some examples for us?

Debian

The question then is - does stability come from patching or does it come from using 3-year-old packages?


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

Offline

#30 2012-03-22 06:35:01

hadrons123
Member
From: chennai
Registered: 2011-10-07
Posts: 1,249

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

I think patching a 3-year-old package for security and bug fixes increases stability.


LENOVO Y 580 IVYBRIDGE 660M NVIDIA
Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with. - Steven King

Offline

#31 2012-03-22 06:43:01

rz
Member
From: Jita
Registered: 2012-01-11
Posts: 17
Website

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

ngoonee wrote:
rz wrote:
tomk wrote:

You sure about that? You have some examples for us?

Debian

The question then is - does stability come from patching or does it come from using 3-year-old packages?

If software does everything you need it to then why would age or version numbers matter?


There's 52 ways to murder anyone. One and two are the same and they both work as well.

Offline

#32 2012-03-22 06:46:30

Cosmin
Member
Registered: 2008-10-06
Posts: 248

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

hadrons123 wrote:

I think patching a 3-year-old package for security and bug fixes increases stability.

I tend to agree with hadrons123. I like arch very much, but using it on servers or on a lot of production workstations it is a lot of more work compared to Debian. I like to have cutting edge software, but if possible not the new bugs or upgrade bugs coming with some new arch packages. Would be nice to have a repo or some sort of marker for stability or bug free status for the new packages. Maybe would be nice to know when there are known bugs for old packages and an update is recommended and the new packages are marked as stable. That would be nice and would enable me to use arch on production servers and workstations.

Offline

#33 2012-03-22 06:54:18

hadrons123
Member
From: chennai
Registered: 2011-10-07
Posts: 1,249

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

Cosmin wrote:

Would be nice to have a repo or some sort of marker for stability or bug free status for the new packages. Maybe would be nice to know when there are known bugs for old packages and an update is recommended and the new packages are marked as stable. That would be nice and would enable me to use arch on production servers and workstations.

I guess Arch doesn't have the resources to do that.(maintaining old packages and fixing).
If arch is ever to do that, the focus and direction of the distro would have to be different.
i hope arch could do it someday, to cater the needs of more people, having a version of Arch comparable to Debian stable,RHEL.

Last edited by hadrons123 (2012-03-22 06:54:40)


LENOVO Y 580 IVYBRIDGE 660M NVIDIA
Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with. - Steven King

Offline

#34 2012-03-22 07:24:27

/dev/zero
Member
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2011-10-20
Posts: 1,176
Website

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

hadrons123 wrote:

I guess Arch doesn't have the resources to do that.(maintaining old packages and fixing).
If arch is ever to do that, the focus and direction of the distro would have to be different.
i hope arch could do it someday, to cater the needs of more people, having a version of Arch comparable to Debian stable,RHEL.

No. This is the good thing about Linux: multiple distributions. If someone prefers the way Debian does things, certainly they should use Debian - not Procrusteanise Arch into a Debian clone.


Linux is NOT Windows | The Rootless Root
Toshiba Satellite i5-3230M 2.6GHz CPUs, 4Gb RAM, ArchLinux, wmii, nVidia GeForce GT 740M.

Offline

#35 2012-03-22 07:27:41

Allan
Developer
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,409
Website

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

That is never going to officially happen.  The whole point of Arch is rolling release and providing the latest versions of software.  If you want Debian stable or RHEL, then install them!

By the way, there have been community attempts at doing this  (Arch Server, Arch Stable, Arch Rock...) but all have failed, usually due to lack of man-power.

Offline

#36 2012-03-22 07:27:50

hadrons123
Member
From: chennai
Registered: 2011-10-07
Posts: 1,249

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

/dev/zero wrote:

not Procrusteanise Arch into a Debian clone.

Wht I suggested is an extension of features not the way you describe it.

Arch and debian are very different already.


LENOVO Y 580 IVYBRIDGE 660M NVIDIA
Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with. - Steven King

Offline

#37 2012-03-22 08:10:58

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,834

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

rz wrote:
ngoonee wrote:
rz wrote:

Debian

The question then is - does stability come from patching or does it come from using 3-year-old packages?

If software does everything you need it to then why would age or version numbers matter?

If stability is more important than the latest packages then Debian is the way to go. Or BSD.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

Offline

#38 2012-03-22 15:53:05

Xyne
Moderator/TU
Registered: 2008-08-03
Posts: 5,688
Website

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

The thread title reminded me of this:
tagline_03.png

Offline

#39 2012-03-22 15:56:28

hadrons123
Member
From: chennai
Registered: 2011-10-07
Posts: 1,249

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

Great wallpaper,  Xyne !


LENOVO Y 580 IVYBRIDGE 660M NVIDIA
Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with. - Steven King

Offline

#40 2012-03-22 20:58:39

Cosmin
Member
Registered: 2008-10-06
Posts: 248

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

/dev/zero wrote:
hadrons123 wrote:

I guess Arch doesn't have the resources to do that.(maintaining old packages and fixing).
If arch is ever to do that, the focus and direction of the distro would have to be different.
i hope arch could do it someday, to cater the needs of more people, having a version of Arch comparable to Debian stable,RHEL.

No. This is the good thing about Linux: multiple distributions. If someone prefers the way Debian does things, certainly they should use Debian - not Procrusteanise Arch into a Debian clone.

I like arch as it is for home use. It's great for that. big_smile

Offline

#41 2012-04-07 09:11:50

rz
Member
From: Jita
Registered: 2012-01-11
Posts: 17
Website

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

hadrons123 wrote:
Cosmin wrote:

Would be nice to have a repo or some sort of marker for stability or bug free status for the new packages. Maybe would be nice to know when there are known bugs for old packages and an update is recommended and the new packages are marked as stable. That would be nice and would enable me to use arch on production servers and workstations.

I guess Arch doesn't have the resources to do that.(maintaining old packages and fixing).
If arch is ever to do that, the focus and direction of the distro would have to be different.
i hope arch could do it someday, to cater the needs of more people, having a version of Arch comparable to Debian stable,RHEL.

Arch could always do things how Gentoo kind of does it.  If no new showstopper or security bugs are posted to a package after X amount of time that package is marked as stable... and this rolls.

Brilliant IMO.


There's 52 ways to murder anyone. One and two are the same and they both work as well.

Offline

#42 2012-04-07 09:25:14

Allan
Developer
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,409
Website

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

rz wrote:

Arch could always do things how Gentoo kind of does it.  If no new showstopper or security bugs are posted to a package after X amount of time that package is marked as stable... and this rolls.

That is exactly how it is done...   It is just X = 0 for some packages.

Offline

#43 2012-04-07 09:35:24

hadrons123
Member
From: chennai
Registered: 2011-10-07
Posts: 1,249

Re: Arch vanilla packages Vs other distros

Allan wrote:
rz wrote:

Arch could always do things how Gentoo kind of does it.  If no new showstopper or security bugs are posted to a package after X amount of time that package is marked as stable... and this rolls.

That is exactly how it is done...   It is just X = 0 for some packages.

If x=0, it does make me feel bit worried.
Although never had any issues with arch for the last 6 months, except for the last week ati package upgrade, not booting into X.
but still acceptable, when comparing with other major distros having more issues.


LENOVO Y 580 IVYBRIDGE 660M NVIDIA
Unix is user-friendly. It just isn't promiscuous about which users it's friendly with. - Steven King

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB