Considering Thinkpad T520

ayr0 · 2012-04-23 16:26:43

Hi,

I'm considering buying a Thinkpad T520 and I had a couple of questions for the thinkpad users on this forum. I've spent the past few days browsing the search results for 'thinkpad' and 'thinkpad t520' and have found that overall, there seem to be only minor issues with lenovo thinkpads. However, I do have a few concerns about some of the hardware that I would like to clarify.

1. Optimus graphics. I have the money to get a discrete gfx card, but I worry that it might be money not wisely spent. Optimus doesn't seem to be supported under Linux at the moment. Is it possible to run only on Intel gfx or Nvida? How hard is it to switch between the two? How annoying is it to switch between the two? Do both provide full gfx capability, specifically video output for all ports (some posts I read mentioned that nvidia card wasn't connected to some output ports)?

2. Wireless. I plan on getting the 3x3 antenna intel centrino wireless. Can't seem to find any specific info on this particular configuration (I found posts regarding the 2x2 and stock thinkpad wireless).

3. FHD screen. Some older reports that I seen mention that the FHD screen has strange colors in Linux. Is this still an issue?

4. Other hardware. There seem to be several issues lately with the touchpads on the thinkpads. Most of these issues were reported by X220 owners. Are these issues widespread across all thinkpads?

And lastly, are there any other annoyances that I should pay attention to before buying a thinkpad t520? Also, out of curiosity, what is the average battery life for a thinkpad t520 in archlinux (for 6 or 9 cell batteries)?

Thank you.

Last edited by ayr0 (2012-04-23 16:27:03)

kreyszig · 2012-04-23 20:33:58

ayr0 wrote:

Hi,
I'm considering buying a Thinkpad T520 and I had a couple of questions for the thinkpad users on this forum. I've spent the past few days browsing the search results for 'thinkpad' and 'thinkpad t520' and have found that overall, there seem to be only minor issues with lenovo thinkpads. However, I do have a few concerns about some of the hardware that I would like to clarify.
1. Optimus graphics. I have the money to get a discrete gfx card, but I worry that it might be money not wisely spent. Optimus doesn't seem to be supported under Linux at the moment. Is it possible to run only on Intel gfx or Nvida? How hard is it to switch between the two? How annoying is it to switch between the two? Do both provide full gfx capability, specifically video output for all ports (some posts I read mentioned that nvidia card wasn't connected to some output ports)?

Bumblebee allows to use both graphics chipsets for Optimus laptops, although it uses some kind of trick to achieve it which is not the most efficient solution. On some machines, with the current version of bumblebee, the graphics performance is lower with the discrete chipset than the integrated graphics. Thinkpads are among the few (if not the only) laptops that will allow you to select between integrated, Optimus and the discrete graphics in the BIOS. So if you don't want to use Optimus, or you want to use the discrete graphics at their full potential, this will require a reboot with a BIOS setting change, but this is about it. About video output on all ports, my knowledge is about the same as yours...

2. Wireless. I plan on getting the 3x3 antenna intel centrino wireless. Can't seem to find any specific info on this particular configuration (I found posts regarding the 2x2 and stock thinkpad wireless).

You will probably simply get a better signal with the 3x3. Select the Intel 2905 wireless since it is the most supported one.

3. FHD screen. Some older reports that I seen mention that the FHD screen has strange colors in Linux. Is this still an issue?

I ordered a W520 so I should know soon. Getting the colours right on Linux (or Windows) requires to define the colour profile. This is supposed to be possible through the xcalib utility. The FHD screen is supposed to be worth it...

4. Other hardware. There seem to be several issues lately with the touchpads on the thinkpads. Most of these issues were reported by X220 owners. Are these issues widespread across all thinkpads?

From what I have read all Lenovos have some issues with the touchpads, or at least it does not work nearly as well as the MacBooks. The solution seems to get used to the trackpad, which is supposed to be very good.

And lastly, are there any other annoyances that I should pay attention to before buying a thinkpad t520? Also, out of curiosity, what is the average battery life for a thinkpad t520 in archlinux (for 6 or 9 cell batteries)?

Pick the minimal amount of RAM and the cheapest hard drive from Lenovo and buy these components separately, you will save money. The W520 becomes less expensive than the T520 quite fast when going above the minimal configuration. I don't know about the T520, but from what I read the W520 lasts about 2-3 hours with a 9 cell battery... Sitting idle, it can supposedly last 6 hours...

Last edited by kreyszig (2012-04-23 20:58:34)

ayr0 · 2012-04-23 23:22:30

If needed, I would be fine running the nvidia gpu all the time. I just want to make sure that is possible (as on some optimus laptops, it is not possible).
so, if I run the nvidia card, is it possible to disable the sandy bridge graphics?

joshua.finkbeiner · 2012-04-24 01:35:00

I have a W520 (nearly identical to the T520 with a few extras) and have been very happy with it; it's the best laptop I've ever owned. However, it has three quirks which are a bit odd in an Arch install, one of which you already indicated.

ayr0 wrote:

1. Optimus graphics. I have the money to get a discrete gfx card, but I worry that it might be money not wisely spent. Optimus doesn't seem to be supported under Linux at the moment. Is it possible to run only on Intel gfx or Nvida? How hard is it to switch between the two? How annoying is it to switch between the two? Do both provide full gfx capability, specifically video output for all ports (some posts I read mentioned that nvidia card wasn't connected to some output ports)?

The BIOS on the machine allows you to run in Integrated Graphics (Intel), Discrete Graphics (NVIDIA), and Optimus mode. It's fairly straightforward to boot into any mode without much difficulty - just change the BIOS setting and boot. I usually run in Optinus mode (using bumblebee and bbswitch) and only boot into Discrete mode when I need to use the external VGA port; I was pleasantly surprised that the bumblebee NVIDIA drivers just worked under Discrete mode. However, that highlights the first quirk: the external graphics ports only work in Discrete mode - they do not work in Integrated or Optimus modes. I've heard rumors to the contrary on other T520/W520 builds, but my machine isn't one of them. If you get the NVIDIA graphics option, you'll most likely have to run in Discrete mode to use those ports.

ayr0 wrote:

2. Wireless. I plan on getting the 3x3 antenna intel centrino wireless. Can't seem to find any specific info on this particular configuration (I found posts regarding the 2x2 and stock thinkpad wireless).

As long as you get any of the Intel upgrades, you should be in good shape. I've heard that the Thinkpad b/g/n wireless is troublesome; any of the Intel options should be supported natively in the kernel.

ayr0 wrote:

3. FHD screen. Some older reports that I seen mention that the FHD screen has strange colors in Linux. Is this still an issue?

I have the FHD (but not the color sensor). I've never noticed anything strange with colors, but I'm not particularly sensitive to color issues. In my non-professional opinion, it's a beautiful display.

ayr0 wrote:

4. Other hardware. There seem to be several issues lately with the touchpads on the thinkpads. Most of these issues were reported by X220 owners. Are these issues widespread across all thinkpads?

Nothing major; the only issue recently has been coasting while scrolling (i.e., you release the touchpad when scrolling, and the display continues to scroll). This only recently developed from an update from the synaptics driver; I think I've fixed it in the xorg confs, but haven't fully checked it. I should probably also mention that it is fairly sensitive to palm pressure while typing (also relatively easily fixed in the xorg confs).

ayr0 wrote:

And lastly, are there any other annoyances that I should pay attention to before buying a thinkpad t520?

I mentioned three quirks earlier, of which I've described one (external graphics ports only work in Discrete mode). The second quirk is a series of oddities in the Lenovo BIOS; I have not yet had luck installing and booting GRUB2 in UEFI mode, and this is apparently fairly common. This isn't a huge problem; using Legacy BIOS mode is a simple change in the BIOS. However, the Legacy BIOS is incapable of booting a GPT-partitioned disk, so you need to run using MBR-partitioned disks. This is not a problem anymore either since fdisk now properly aligns SSDs (I have an Intel 310 80GB mSATA SSD in addition to my platter drive - I believe this is supported by a T520; if so, I highly recommend adding this drive as your boot and root disk)
The third quirk is that this laptop suffers from the infamous "low volume" issue prevalent among many laptop models. This can be partially, albeit somewhat unsatisfactorily, remedied by using a pre-amp in either ALSA or Pulseaudio.

ayr0 wrote:

Also, out of curiosity, what is the average battery life for a thinkpad t520 in archlinux (for 6 or 9 cell batteries)?

With my W520 on a 9-cell battery and some aggressive power-saving (low backlight, Integrated graphics, laptop-mode-tools tweaked out), I can routinely pull 8-10 hours. That time shrinks dramatically (2-4 hours as reported by kreyszig) using Discrete graphics.

My only recommendation to you is to look into adding an mSATA SSD. Lenovo provides disassembly/assembly manuals online and make this addition straightforward - you just need to know which screws to remove. If you have enough money for either the NVIDIA card or mSATA SSD, go with the mSATA. If you can swing both, why not?

Good luck,
Josh

ayr0 · 2012-04-24 16:20:45

How well does the Intel 3000 graphics perform under linux? Is it fast enough for occasional, yet intensive 3d uses (I'm a researcher at a university and occasionally deal with 3d visualizations).

Also, I just noticed the rumors of a Thinkpad T530 with a new processor just released yesterday. It is going to have an Intel 4000 integrated gfx, which is said to be about 2x faster than Intel 3000 (from what I've read). Not knowing a whole lot about hardware, would it be worth it to wait a month before buying. The only downside I see to waiting is that the newer systems would be very new on the market and not have the testing, etc. that the T520 has now.

ANOKNUSA · 2012-04-24 23:02:31

I couldn't be happier with my T520, though I don't do anything too intense with it. I just use the integrated graphics chip under Linux, and it does just fine for me. Granted, I use tiling WMs most of the time, but I've played around with both GNOME Shell and KDE and had them run smoothly. I do play games sometimes, but it's always under Windows; in that case, only the Nvidia chip can output to my television, so I believe you may need to use the Nvidia chip if you want to use an external monitor. Of course, I haven't tried it under Linux, so I could be wrong. And if I understand joshua.finkbeiner, you can use the Nvidia driver and chip on its own, though I haven't tried it. As for battery life, I can usually squeeze about 3-1/4 hrs out of it on a 6-cell battery using laptop mode, and turning off unnecessary hardware in the BIOS.

joshua.finkbeiner · 2012-04-25 00:42:14

ayr0 wrote:

How well does the Intel 3000 graphics perform under linux? Is it fast enough for occasional, yet intensive 3d uses (I'm a researcher at a university and occasionally deal with 3d visualizations).

I run CFD visualization on my machine fairly regularly. Tecplot runs well enough under Integrated graphics, although it isn't as responsive as when I run it with bumblebee (not that responsiveness matters much with Tecplot). However, anything more interactive (such as CAD) won't run well under the Integrated chip; you'll want to run such software under bumblebee or with a full Discrete boot.

ayr0 wrote:

Also, I just noticed the rumors of a Thinkpad T530 with a new processor just released yesterday. It is going to have an Intel 4000 integrated gfx, which is said to be about 2x faster than Intel 3000 (from what I've read). Not knowing a whole lot about hardware, would it be worth it to wait a month before buying. The only downside I see to waiting is that the newer systems would be very new on the market and not have the testing, etc. that the T520 has now.

The Ivy Bridge chip will certainly give you better graphics performance than the Sandy Bridge chips (in addition to some significant power savings), so that might be one good reason to wait. On the other hand, Lenovo might have a firesale on the T520 (or W520, or that matter) to clear stock before starting to sell the 530 models. If you are able to take advantage of such a deal, getting a Discrete chip on the 520 model might outweigh the newer Integrated chip on a 530.

Good luck,
Josh

ayr0 · 2012-04-26 00:30:34

Thank you for all the valuable feed back. I think I will settle with the following specs.

Processor: Intel Core i7-2640M Processor (2.80GHz, 4M Cache with Turbo Boost up to 3.50GHz)
Operating system: Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium (64 bit)
Operating system language: Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium 64 - English
Display type: 15.6" FHD (1920x1080) LED Backlit AntiGlare display, with Wireless WAN Antenna
System graphics: NVIDIA Quadro NVS4200M Optimus technology (1GB)
Total memory: 4 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)
Keyboard: Keyboard - US English
Camera: 720p HD Camera with Microphone
Hard drive: 500GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
Optical device: DVD Recordable
System expansion slots: Express Card Slot, 4-in-1 Card Reader with place-holder cover
Battery: 6 Cell 2.6Ah Li-Ion Battery
Power cord: 90W AC Adapter - North America, Latin America (2pin)
Bluetooth: Broadcom Bluetooth 3.0 with antenna
Integrated WiFi wireless LAN adapters: Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 AGN
Integrated mobile broadband: Mobile Broadband ready (no mobile broadband module)

I'm still a little unsure about the optimus graphics though. Does the nvidia card emit a lot of heat? If I use just the discrete card, do I still have to use the bumblebee-nvidia drivers? After thinking about it for a bit, I must opt just for intel gfx.
I'm probably going to place my order this weekend.

Last edited by ayr0 (2012-04-26 00:38:19)

cfr · 2012-04-26 00:55:32

If the BIOS is similar to that on the x-series thinkpads, you may be able to boot in UEFI mode by formatting the EFI partition fat 16. At least, that works here whereas fat 32 did not (although it should according to spec).

I have problems with VGA out but that could be KDE.

The internal mic is basically unusable - I suspect this may be (at least partly) a config issue but I can't figure it out.

Arch Linux

#1 2012-04-23 16:26:43

Considering Thinkpad T520

#2 2012-04-23 20:33:58

Re: Considering Thinkpad T520

#3 2012-04-23 23:22:30

Re: Considering Thinkpad T520

#4 2012-04-24 01:35:00

Re: Considering Thinkpad T520

#5 2012-04-24 16:20:45

Re: Considering Thinkpad T520

#6 2012-04-24 23:02:31

Re: Considering Thinkpad T520

#7 2012-04-25 00:42:14

Re: Considering Thinkpad T520

#8 2012-04-26 00:30:34

Re: Considering Thinkpad T520

#9 2012-04-26 00:55:32

Re: Considering Thinkpad T520

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