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#1 2012-05-17 17:43:56

dhave
Arch Linux f@h Team Member
From: Outside the matrix.
Registered: 2005-05-15
Posts: 1,110

Linus on EFI


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#2 2012-05-17 17:57:06

ANOKNUSA
Member
Registered: 2010-10-22
Posts: 2,141

Re: Linus on EFI

One man, one opinion.  Who cares?  I wouldn't have taken Nikola Tesla's opinion on rechargable batteries seriously, either.

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#3 2012-05-17 18:00:27

jasonwryan
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From: .nz
Registered: 2009-05-09
Posts: 18,830
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Re: Linus on EFI

ANOKNUSA wrote:

I wouldn't have taken Nikola Tesla's opinion on rechargable batteries seriously, either.

Tesla? The greatest geek that ever lived...


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#4 2012-05-17 18:01:39

Bellum
Member
Registered: 2011-08-24
Posts: 230

Re: Linus on EFI

Why not?

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#5 2012-05-17 18:07:55

ANOKNUSA
Member
Registered: 2010-10-22
Posts: 2,141

Re: Linus on EFI

A) Tesla wasn't too fond of Direct Current, and for good reason: It didn't really have any practical value at that time.

B) Linus is essentially complaining about technology not being the same as it was 30 years ago.  It's a senseless thing to bitch about.  Tesla, awesome though he may have been, had a pretty big ego himself, and likely would've complained about the same.

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#6 2012-05-17 18:14:08

Bellum
Member
Registered: 2011-08-24
Posts: 230

Re: Linus on EFI

Sounds to me like he's bitching about his computer not working correctly, which is legitimate enough as far as I'm concerned. And anyway, just because an expert is human and has biases is not a good reason to reject possible wisdom from their perspective and experiences.

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#7 2012-05-17 18:24:45

ANOKNUSA
Member
Registered: 2010-10-22
Posts: 2,141

Re: Linus on EFI

Linus Torvalds has a long track record pitching a fit every time a project doesn't go his way, and most of the time he's in no way involved in those projects and doesn't have any say in the matter anyway.  I suspect this is just more of the same. You can add EFI to the list including:

- Fedora
- OpenSuSE
- XFCE 4.8
- KDE 4
- GNOME 3

and likely more that I don't know about and don't care about.  It's all well and good not to like something that's not your forte; feeling the need to tell the whole world about it every single time is just egotistical.

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#8 2012-05-17 18:32:57

alphaniner
Member
From: Ancapistan
Registered: 2010-07-12
Posts: 2,656

Re: Linus on EFI

ANOKNUSA wrote:

B) Linus is essentially complaining about technology not being the same as it was 30 years ago.

I have an even more cynical impression which I won't get in to, but give the man some credit.  He did make some concrete, falsifiable claims at least:

EFI is poorly tested ("in another decade or so, EFI will be well tested").
EFI implementations are poorly written due to over-complexity of the standard ("complicated interfaces that nobody seems to get right").


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#9 2012-05-17 18:44:21

Bellum
Member
Registered: 2011-08-24
Posts: 230

Re: Linus on EFI

ANOKNUSA wrote:

Linus Torvalds has a long track record pitching a fit every time a project doesn't go his way, and most of the time he's in no way involved in those projects and doesn't have any say in the matter anyway.  I suspect this is just more of the same. You can add EFI to the list including:

- Fedora
- OpenSuSE
- XFCE 4.8
- KDE 4
- GNOME 3

and likely more that I don't know about and don't care about.  It's all well and good not to like something that's not your forte; feeling the need to tell the whole world about it every single time is just egotistical.

Isn't that what a blog is for?

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#10 2012-05-17 18:46:07

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,331

Re: Linus on EFI

Generation twitter struck again. "Linus on EFI [LINK]". No discussion in the discussion section?

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#11 2012-05-18 05:18:52

ANOKNUSA
Member
Registered: 2010-10-22
Posts: 2,141

Re: Linus on EFI

alphaniner wrote:
ANOKNUSA wrote:

B) Linus is essentially complaining about technology not being the same as it was 30 years ago.

I have an even more cynical impression which I won't get in to, but give the man some credit.  He did make some concrete, falsifiable claims at least:

EFI is poorly tested ("in another decade or so, EFI will be well tested").
EFI implementations are poorly written due to over-complexity of the standard ("complicated interfaces that nobody seems to get right").

Yeah, that's a fair point.  The guys just rubs me the wrong way a lot of the time.

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#12 2012-05-18 06:03:51

dhave
Arch Linux f@h Team Member
From: Outside the matrix.
Registered: 2005-05-15
Posts: 1,110

Re: Linus on EFI

Awebb wrote:

Generation twitter struck again. "Linus on EFI [LINK]". No discussion in the discussion section?

Generation twitter? Thanks for the compliment! I'll hit 57 on my next birthday. smile

FWIW, I didn't have a set opinion of Linus's views of EFI, but I knew I could learn something from you guys, which is why I posted the link. I do know that I have been as frustrated with EFI as with anything I've encountered in the Linux world, so I was kind of affirmed when a guru like Linus said what he did. But now I see that some folks feel this is part of a pattern.

Either way, I've found some of the comments insightful.

Oops, I went way over 140 characters, so I guess I just lost membership in the Twit gang.

Last edited by dhave (2012-05-18 06:37:16)


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#13 2012-05-18 09:05:53

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,331

Re: Linus on EFI

dhave wrote:
Awebb wrote:

Generation twitter struck again. "Linus on EFI [LINK]". No discussion in the discussion section?

Generation twitter? Thanks for the compliment! I'll hit 57 on my next birthday. smile

The internet can be a fountain of youth sometimes :-D

dhave wrote:

FWIW, I didn't have a set opinion of Linus's views of EFI

I see, sometimes saying nothing is better than empty words.



Okay, before this goes all meta (on my tab): I call Linux 'Sir Rantalot', because when he's not coding, he complains. His criticism is usually not so constructive, he usually vomits on something and returns to his coding. I have yet to see a single rant of him, that needs to be corrected, but his general tone makes it hard for most people to take him seriously. I don't mind, though. His rants are insightful as well as entertaining.

It's just sad how people always try to "improve" on old standard interfaces by then over-designing the improvements to the point where the new interface is just overwhelmed by complexity.

Pulseaudio, systemd, cosolekit, policikit (or whatever .*kit), udev and the other usual suspects?

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#14 2012-05-18 14:46:19

radiomist
Member
From: superposicion
Registered: 2009-11-27
Posts: 62

Re: Linus on EFI

Using Linux on macbook Efi Mode smile, All works great, better than my old bios acer Laptop

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#15 2012-05-18 14:54:19

Sara
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2009-07-09
Posts: 217
Website

Re: Linus on EFI

efistub on my X220 blows old BIOS booting out of the water, no matter what Mr. Torvalds has to say.


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#16 2012-05-18 16:53:39

dhave
Arch Linux f@h Team Member
From: Outside the matrix.
Registered: 2005-05-15
Posts: 1,110

Re: Linus on EFI

Sara wrote:

efistub on my X220 blows old BIOS booting out of the water, no matter what Mr. Torvalds has to say.

That's how I feel about loaderless EFI booting on my Thinkpad T420, though it took me forever to figure out how to set it up, and I still hit glitches sometimes when I try to make changes. (For example, I can't get kernel 3.3.6 to boot this way, for some reason. I've got another thread on that.)


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