New soundcard advice

halfgaar · 2012-02-11 14:11:11

Hi,

I'm looking for a new soundcard, but options seem to be limited. I've run into/know about the following issues:

All Creative cards are hacks. Their architechture is always a bad kludge of components thrown together. Rear channels work on different DACs with different phase (SB Live and Audigy), or the front and center channel have a bucket load more noise than the other channels (SB audigy 2), mixer controls are messed up (when you change the master on the SB live, only the front channels change).
I currently have a Creative SB Audigy 2, which starts producing what sounds like aliasing noise sometimes. It's a noise akin to when you'd disable resampling interpolation in MOD players. It's guaranteed to happen after you've recorded (or skyped), but sometimes it happens randomly, it seems.
Envy24 doesn't do hardware mixing.
Envy24 doesn't work with Quake3, last I heard, and maybe other OSS based games.

About hardware mixing; I know resampling like the Creative cards do is necessary when you want to be able to do hardware mixing. Is Dmix an option? Never worked with it. I'm assuming Dmix also does resampling? Does it only do that when it needs to? Is it transparent to the applications?

So, my needs are:

Play stereo, 5.1 and 7.1 sources with all analog outputs (to feed to my home made analog Linkwitz/Riley crossover)
Low noise
Alsa compatible
The ability to play multiple sources at once or skype when gaming.
An occasional game, requiring OpenAL and OSS support.

BTW, I've never even looked at Pulse, so I don't know how that factors in... I don't use it currently.

brebs · 2012-02-11 15:00:03

halfgaar wrote:

All Creative cards are hacks

My old recommendation, still valid AFAIK, is the Audigy 4.

I never tried recording with it.

Is Dmix an option?

Yes, and of course almost everyone uses it, or Pulseaudio (which also "mixes" itself).

Software dmix is still the farce that it's always been, though. Doesn't always work perfectly, adding a small CPU software-processing delay that s/w might be assuming does not exist. See my sig, for an example ~/.asoundrc which shows the hoops needed to jump through if you want dmixing to work properly with e.g. 2-channel and 5.1-channel inputs concurrently.

Dmix also does resampling?

Yes - impossible otherwise. Can only output to the soundcard at *one* rate.

Does it only do that when it needs to?

Yes and no.

Yes, in that it doesn't try to remix to 48khz an input that is already 48khz - that would be pointless.

No, in that you pretty much have to choose one of 44.1 or 48, and stick with it.

I have occasionally swapped between 44.1 and 48, trying to see which is better, on a soundcard which supports both. Can't notice a difference, so in the end I just stick with the standard 48 that seems the more popular choice.

Is it transparent to the applications?

Yes, specified in ~/.asoundrc

OSS support

Why? You know it's ancient and dead, right, except for about one developer who refuses to just give up? Whereas ALSA is in-kernel and the present and future?

Fackamato · 2012-02-11 15:16:08

I bought this card: ASUS Xonar D2X/XDT - Sound card - 118 dB SNR - 7.1 - PCI Express x1

It works fine in Linux, but I haven't tried recording.

halfgaar · 2012-02-12 10:57:13

Yes and no.
Yes, in that it doesn't try to remix to 48khz an input that is already 48khz - that would be pointless.
No, in that you pretty much have to choose one of 44.1 or 48, and stick with it.

I mainly meant if it also resamples when there is only one signal source. Because it wouldn't need to in that case.

Why? You know it's ancient and dead, right, except for about one developer who refuses to just give up? Whereas ALSA is in-kernel and the present and future?

What I meant was, Quake 3 for instance, uses OSS, which is emulated with Alsa. But last I heard, it doesn't work with the OSS emulation of the Envy24.

What about the X-Fi card, btw? You still recommend the Audigy 4 over that? And in that Gentoo thread, you did say Creative doesn't deserve our money. Unfortunately, the page you linked to is down.

@Fackamato

That asus card looks impressive. I also like the fact it used Burr Brown DACs. I use BB all the time in my own projects.

The specs say it does do sample rate conversion, so I'm assuming it can do hardware mixing?

Can you tell me all the things you've tried to do with it? 5.1 and 7.1 outputs? HD audio? Does it do HD audio as clunky as the Audigy (it bypasses the main DSP for it).

Too bad there aren't entire wikipedia pages about other cards, like the creative ones...

brebs · 2012-02-12 11:18:09

halfgaar wrote:

I mainly meant if it also resamples when there is only one signal source. Because it wouldn't need to in that case.

I'm not quite sure why you ask - do you suspect ALSA of doing pointless extra work? It doesn't do pointless extra work, AFAIK.

Quake 3 for instance, uses OSS

I assume that ioquake3 is OK with ALSA (via OpenAL).

What about the X-Fi card, btw? You still recommend the Audigy 4 over that?

The Audigy 4 that I had, supported 5.1, which you specify as a requirement. Can't remember about 7.1

The X-fi that I had, whilst better audio quality, didn't (and still doesn't, AFAICT) support greater than 2.0 with ALSA.

Unfortunately, the page you linked to is down.

Which one? I just tried the ones linked to and they work.

I would love to recommend a non-Creative hardware-mixing soundcard, but there's nothing worth suggesting

Personally, based on my experience of endless experimenting with dmix, I would get a hardware-mixing second-hand Audigy 4 and be happy that my CPU is fully committed to playing a game, rather than having to be distracted by audio mixing too.

Fackamato · 2012-02-12 20:31:12

halfgaar wrote:

@Fackamato
That asus card looks impressive. I also like the fact it used Burr Brown DACs. I use BB all the time in my own projects.
The specs say it does do sample rate conversion, so I'm assuming it can do hardware mixing?
Can you tell me all the things you've tried to do with it? 5.1 and 7.1 outputs? HD audio? Does it do HD audio as clunky as the Audigy (it bypasses the main DSP for it).
Too bad there aren't entire wikipedia pages about other cards, like the creative ones...

Actually I don't know, I only use it with a pair of 2.0 heapdhones (and soon 2.0 cheap monitors). Not sure about the HW mixing either - I can check later in the week.

mkkot · 2012-06-18 19:59:37

Hey, sorry for taking over this thread
Is it normal that dmix + openal = choppy sound? It happens with Chromium BSU and commercial Amnesia from Frictional games. When I allow Amnesia to use soundcard exclusively without dmix, it works like a charm.

bart_b · 2012-06-18 21:05:34

I use the ASUS Xonar D2/PM one of the nice things about this card it uses muting relays so whenever i turn my computer off no loud POPS comming from the amplifier connected directly to the output,
Yes, HW mixing works under alsa and also the true MiDi interface works fine with a rear bracket slot for MiDi I/O port.
5.1 and 7.1 outputs?: Yep
HD audio?: Yes unfortunately it has no AC97/HDA front connector.

Wiki This http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page

Fackamato · 2012-06-18 21:38:20

bart_b wrote:

I use the ASUS Xonar D2/PM one of the nice things about this card it uses muting relays so whenever i turn my computer off no loud POPS comming from the amplifier connected directly to the output,
Yes, HW mixing works under alsa and also the true MiDi interface works fine with a rear bracket slot for MiDi I/O port.
5.1 and 7.1 outputs?: Yep
HD audio?: Yes unfortunately it has no AC97/HDA front connector.
Wiki This http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page

Do you have to do anythnig special to get the HW mixing to work under alsa? (doesn't ALSA use dmix by default?)

ewaller · 2012-06-18 22:03:22

Since this thread was started, we instantiated a new policy on product recommendations.. This thread was also happily pushing up daisies, when it was summoned back to life. It almost qualified as a necrothread, but not quite.

If there is a specific question on a specific sound card, please go ahead and start a new thread on the topic.

Closing, without malice.

Arch Linux

#1 2012-02-11 14:11:11

New soundcard advice

#2 2012-02-11 15:00:03

Re: New soundcard advice

#3 2012-02-11 15:16:08

Re: New soundcard advice

#4 2012-02-12 10:57:13

Re: New soundcard advice

#5 2012-02-12 11:18:09

Re: New soundcard advice

#6 2012-02-12 20:31:12

Re: New soundcard advice

#7 2012-06-18 19:59:37

Re: New soundcard advice

#8 2012-06-18 21:05:34

Re: New soundcard advice

#9 2012-06-18 21:38:20

Re: New soundcard advice

#10 2012-06-18 22:03:22

Re: New soundcard advice

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