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#76 2012-07-15 17:48:33

horrovac
Member
Registered: 2012-01-12
Posts: 5

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

ewaller wrote:
Antunes wrote:

Don't tell me to read the news post, I did that.

Okay, don't read this

No, DO read it. Being witty when people are in a stress situation with a borked system isn't helping things. I thought you were pointing out erroneous information, whereas in fact it was correct. So I really did NOT follow your link, trusting you as a moderator. I finally came to read it in a roundabout way.

For people who (like me) just did --force and are now trying to figure out what the hell happened: the system is fine, the loader is just where the system can't find it. You don't need rescue disks or rebooting, you just have to call the loader explicitly (as explained in the links referenced). The system is fine, don't panic. Just symlink /lib to usr/lib.

WARNING: I found that /lib was NOT empty as per instructions, /lib/modules was still there (and not in /usr/lib/modules), so check that out... This probably wouldn't have mattered as linux update would have recreated it where it belongs, anyway I took no chances and copied it over before moving /lib out of the way and recreating it as a symlink. Here's what I did:

/usr/lib/ld-2.16.so /bin/ls /lib -l   #checking whether /lib was really empty
/usr/lib/ld-2.16.so /bin/cp -r /lib/modules /usr/lib/ #it wasn't, so copying modules over, just in case
/usr/lib/ld-2.16.so /bin/mv /lib /lib-old #rather than removing I move out of the way as a rule - you never know
/usr/lib/ld-2.16.so /bin/ln -s usr/lib /lib #symlink. From here on the system was functional again

After this I did pacman -Syu (thanks to me copying modules directory over it complained about /usr/lib/modules/extramodules-3.4-ARCH/version existing in filesystem, so I just deleted it and ran again).

If I may make a bit of a wiseass-comment, I'd like to suggest that for situations like this one would need a non-forceable filesystem conflict block, or perhaps one that would need a second level of force, with semantics similar to pacman -Sc and -Scc (REALLY clean it). I know --force is not supposed to be used at all, I'm aware that had I paused a second to think about it I'd have figured out what a bad idea it was to use it in this situation, and yet... I simply had to use --force too often recently to fix minor installation problems so I become too used to it that I started using it lightly.

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#77 2012-07-15 17:59:26

tomegun
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-05-28
Posts: 661

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

horrovac wrote:

If I may make a bit of a wiseass-comment, I'd like to suggest that for situations like this one would need a non-forceable filesystem conflict block, or perhaps one that would need a second level of force, with semantics similar to pacman -Sc and -Scc (REALLY clean it).

The problem is for pacman to figure out what situation we are in (the one where --force should work, or the one requiring --force --force). I think people are looking into how to make it less likely for people to accidentally use --force (one thing we did was to remove support for -f, and requrie "--force" to be spelled out)

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#78 2012-07-15 18:22:57

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 12,434

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

horrovac wrote:

No, DO read it. Being witty when people are in a stress situation with a borked system isn't helping things. I thought you were pointing out erroneous information, whereas in fact it was correct. So I really did NOT follow your link, trusting you as a moderator. I finally came to read it in a roundabout way.

Nonsense.  You he asserted that youhr did not want to be told to go read something.  I knew the answer was there -- linked in the article you had read.  I was pointing out the error of your his assertion.

Edit:  Sorry, I thought I was responding to Antunes.

Last edited by ewaller (2012-07-15 18:25:44)


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Like you, I have no idea what you are doing, but I am pretty sure it is wrong...Jasonwryan
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#79 2012-07-15 18:31:06

horrovac
Member
Registered: 2012-01-12
Posts: 5

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

tomegun wrote:
horrovac wrote:

If I may make a bit of a wiseass-comment, I'd like to suggest that for situations like this one would need a non-forceable filesystem conflict block, or perhaps one that would need a second level of force, with semantics similar to pacman -Sc and -Scc (REALLY clean it).

The problem is for pacman to figure out what situation we are in (the one where --force should work, or the one requiring --force --force). I think people are looking into how to make it less likely for people to accidentally use --force (one thing we did was to remove support for -f, and requrie "--force" to be spelled out)

Pacman would not be able to figure that out, this information would need to come from the package maintainer, either as a list of filesystem objects for which the block is not forceable, or as a blanket "ignore-force" flag for the whole package. Of course, it was just a wise-ass comment - if I really knew what I'm talking about I wouldn't talk but submit a patch for consideration smile. It probably isn't an ideal solution to this kind of problem, a tighter QA on the packages would remove the need to use --force, or enable the devs to remove it altogether.

By the way, the --force instead of -f requirement seems not to have worked in my case, as -Syuf is precisely what I did. My pacman version is Pacman v4.0.3 - libalpm v7.0.3, the system is x86_64 - if you require more info, let me know.

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#80 2012-07-15 18:50:33

horrovac
Member
Registered: 2012-01-12
Posts: 5

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

ewaller wrote:
horrovac wrote:

No, DO read it. Being witty when people are in a stress situation with a borked system isn't helping things. I thought you were pointing out erroneous information, whereas in fact it was correct. So I really did NOT follow your link, trusting you as a moderator. I finally came to read it in a roundabout way.

Nonsense.  You he asserted that youhr did not want to be told to go read something.  I knew the answer was there -- linked in the article you had read.  I was pointing out the error of your his assertion.

Edit:  Sorry, I thought I was responding to Antunes.

Yes, I figured it out - when it was too late smile. In a stress situation, even a mild one, I seem to switch into no-nonsense procedure-following mode and don't necessarily recognise sarcasm. All I saw was a mod telling me not to read something, so I didn't wink

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#81 2012-07-15 19:00:23

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 12,434

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

horrovac wrote:

Yes, I figured it out - when it was too late smile. In a stress situation, even a mild one, I seem to switch into no-nonsense procedure-following mode and don't necessarily recognise sarcasm. All I saw was a mod telling me not to read something, so I didn't wink

Furthermore, you are right.  As moderators, we know we are held to a different standard; it is part of our charter.  We know that sarcasm does not translate well and we are supposed to avoid it.  Unfortunately, I tend to be sarcastic. 

We knew this glib transition would be a pain.  I guess the moderators are running a little low on patience too.

I'll take it down a notch or two.

Last edited by ewaller (2012-07-15 22:22:55)


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Like you, I have no idea what you are doing, but I am pretty sure it is wrong...Jasonwryan
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#82 2012-07-15 19:04:04

Antunes
Member
Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 20

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

I don't care about sarcasm, I just want my glibc to upgrade!
I still have the ownership problems I posted above in my last post. I still don't know what to do with those.

EDIT: and I read all the previous forums. The solution to my particular problem is not in there.

Last edited by Antunes (2012-07-15 19:43:08)

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#83 2012-07-15 19:04:05

padster
Member
Registered: 2012-03-14
Posts: 24
Website

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

Alright, I got my glibc to update, finally. I had to restore my backup of /lib and delete the modules directory inside. Then the update went fine. I thought I had tried that already, but I guess not. Doh.

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#84 2012-07-15 20:33:07

amsri
Member
Registered: 2011-06-17
Posts: 48

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

I think I have done it. After reading all the posts about borking the system I tried to be too optimistic and followed the guidelines given in wiki. Whatever way I tried the glibc was not getting updated. Then I carefully looked at the contents of /lib and /usr/lib to confirm all the modules etc needed are in /usr/lib. When I ran the command:

find /lib -exec pacman -Qo -- {} +

it only complained by ownership by glibc and all the culprits were in in root /lib directory and not in modules etc. After giving a lot of thought and trying methods suggested in the forums I did the following (Note: there were only two things left in my /lib - the modules directory and glibc related stuff, including symlinks, in the root /lib directory):

1) I renamed the the modules directory in /lib to modules .bak

2) After renaming as in 1 moved all the stuff from /lib to /usr/lib

mv /lib/* /usr/lib/

3) then

mv /lib /lib-old

4.

/usr/lib/ld-2.16.so /bin/ln -s usr/lib /lib 

5) lastly with the understanding that everything now is in /usr/lib and there is already a symlink from /usr/lib to /lib I executed:

 pacman -S glibc lib32-glibc --force 

Note: I am using multilib version of gcc as I need it for 32 bit programs.
the command in 5 went through smoothly. I then rebooted and Wooo!!! Hooo!!! I have a working system. I did several reboots and shutdowns and no problems detected so far. Hope everything is OK.

I just shared my steps in hope that it may help someone.

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#85 2012-07-15 21:41:21

Antunes
Member
Registered: 2012-07-15
Posts: 20

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

Update from me: I managed to do it with amsri's suggestion, I used --force. But of course, as has been said, this is a very dangerous option.
I guess --force should only be used after you have moved everything from /lib to /usr/lib and created the link from /lib to /usr/lib.

That was really tricky.

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#86 2012-07-16 01:43:59

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,794

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

Since this is no longer a [testing] problem, discussion switches to this thread.

Closing. Anyone who reads this and is panicking about your system, calm down, grab yourself some coffee, and re-read the instructions given, its not too hard. Oh, and if you think --force or rm -rf are good ideas, other distros would probably serve you better.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#87 2012-07-16 02:01:58

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 12,434

Re: /lib exists in filesystem when installing testing/glibc 2.16.0-2

Antunes wrote:

Update from me: I managed to do it with amsri's suggestion, I used --force. But of course, as has been said, this is a very dangerous option.
I guess --force should only be used after you have moved everything from /lib to /usr/lib and created the link from /lib to /usr/lib.

That was really tricky.

In all humility, I am delighted you worked it out.  Sorry about my frustration.


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Like you, I have no idea what you are doing, but I am pretty sure it is wrong...Jasonwryan
----
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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