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#26 2012-07-16 22:32:16

Jristz
Member
From: America/Santiago
Registered: 2011-06-11
Posts: 916

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

or simlpe, use syslinux, this is supported in AIF right?

now you can mark this Solved


Well, I suppose that this is somekind of signature, no?

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#27 2012-07-17 04:44:06

twelveeighty
Member
From: Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-04
Posts: 309

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Allan wrote:

I think you are missing the point...   There is not AIF on the next ISO - everything will be done manually.

Uh.. Maybe I'm just not understanding what "AIF" really is - I was assuming that is that character/curses based install prompter that is described in the Offical Installation Guide: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Of … stallation. Is that correct? If so, I think it will be a step back to lose that. I may not have done that many different distro installations (perhaps 5 or 6 or so different Linux distros and a couple BSD), but I don't recall any distro out there without some kind of guided installation process...?

I realize (and fully agree) that the "Arch Way" is about not hiding complexities and keeping everything "free to choose", but I think losing AIF would create more complexity just for sake of it?

Now, if the answer is: there aren't devs around to change AIF to incorporate Grub2, that's a different story. Let's go about finding coders/testers then.

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#28 2012-07-17 05:11:57

ebal
Member
From: Athens, GReece
Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 213
Website

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

I do understand the need of grub2 on installation media and a better findblockdevices for finding vda disks


http://Ευάγγελος.Μπαλάσκας.gr
Unix System Engineer - Registered Linux User #420129

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#29 2012-07-17 20:02:53

SolarBoyMatt
Member
From: Columbus, Ohio
Registered: 2012-01-07
Posts: 258
Website

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

twelveeighty wrote:

Now, if the answer is: there aren't devs around to change AIF to incorporate Grub2, that's a different story. Let's go about finding coders/testers then.

According to the mailing lists, it looks like that's the case. The new installation scripts don't seem too bad at this point, but I agree about the AIF. It was simple to use, while still allowing flexibility, and it's a shame to see it go. I guess there's still things like archboot.

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#30 2012-07-18 15:27:31

twelveeighty
Member
From: Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2011-09-04
Posts: 309

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

The irony is that Grub 2's selling point is that it has all this detection stuff so that these installer tools can delegate the detection / installation stuff out to Grub and don't have to worry about it anymore. Of course, I have no experience with this, but that's the marketing-speak.

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#31 2012-07-19 18:09:35

2011gil
Member
Registered: 2012-01-04
Posts: 18

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

So there will be no installer at all? Today this would not affect me much, but I think that I would probably not be using Arch today if it wasn't for AIF (it was quite a challenge at the time even with the installer), so I think that this is indeed a step back.

Out of curiosity, is this why there hasn't been a new official ISO for a while?

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#32 2012-07-20 19:13:38

keepitsimpleengineer
Member
From: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Registered: 2012-06-25
Posts: 284
Website

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

I can report that I installed grub2 this morning and it was a Godsend.

The background: I came to Archlinux to regain some advanced features Ubuntu has been quietly deprecating.  The latest 12.04's os-prober won't detect Archlinux, and 10.04 grub (1.98) won't boot Archlinux because it won't use UUIDs and my hardware BIOS mixes up hard-drive order from boot to boot.  Their automatic boot-repair wiped out the grub legacy on the Archlinux partitions hard-drive.

In less than a hour I installed grub2 on Archlinux and it's working with no hitch.  Nice job on the https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Grub too!

Last edited by keepitsimpleengineer (2012-07-20 23:05:16)


Al Einstein: "Man soll die Dinge so einfach machen wie möglich ~ aber nicht einfacher." (Things should be as simple as possible ~ but not too simple.)

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#33 2012-07-20 20:01:57

archel
Member
Registered: 2011-11-04
Posts: 46

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Upgraded!

Thank you very much for the detailed wiki!

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#34 2012-07-20 20:51:32

scjet
Banned
Registered: 2011-07-23
Posts: 172

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

keepitsimpleengineer wrote:

I can report that I installed grub2 this morning and it was a Godsend.

The background: I came to Archlinux to retain some advanced features Ubuntu has been quietly deprecating.  The latest 12.04's os-prober won't detect Archlinux, and 10.04 grub (1.98) won't boot Archlinux because it won't use UUIDs and my hardware BIOS mixes up hard-drive order from boot to boot.  Their automatic boot-repair wiped out the grub legacy on the Archlinux partitions hard-drive.

In less than a hour I installed grub2 on Archlinux and it's working with no hitch.  Nice job on the https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Grub too!

If what you're actually "reporting" is "true"?, even hypothetically, then what that means is, -that what uBUMtu has been doing of late, sounds VERY suspiciously of what "Windows" has been trying to do forever, to everybody ?!
cool,  -and that ain't' cool man, in fact your uBUMtu/Grub2 maybe virally infected, but for the better good. ?!
Huh.
BTW: that self-portait of whoever?, reminds me of Nick Nolte dude. -but that's always cool, and thanks for 'da plug.  wink

Last edited by scjet (2012-07-20 21:13:14)


The "BSD" things in life are "Free", and "Open", and so is "Arch"

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#35 2012-07-20 22:54:10

keepitsimpleengineer
Member
From: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Registered: 2012-06-25
Posts: 284
Website

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

scjet wrote:
keepitsimpleengineer wrote:

I can report that I installed grub2 .....

If what you're actually "reporting" is "true"?, even hypothetically, then what that means is, -that what uBUMtu has been doing of late, sounds VERY suspiciously of what "Windows" has been trying to do forever, to everybody ?!
cool,  -and that ain't' cool man, in fact your uBUMtu/Grub2 maybe virally infected, but for the better good. ?!
Huh.
BTW: that self-portait of whoever?, reminds me of Nick Nolte dude. -but that's always cool, and thanks for 'da plug.  wink

I would suspect that the business plans are very similar.  There are obviously many many more very casual possible users of computing than there are heavy duty users, thus the widest market is at the bottom.  My latest problem with grub/Unbuntu was the 12.04's os-prober wouldn't recognize Archlinux, and 10.04's 1.98 grub wouldn't use UUIDs (my hardware BIOS randomly changes hard-disk order from boot to boot).  In any case, no problem now...

That is a pix of me but Nick Nolte's much better looking than I am ‧ ⁘⁙ ⁛


Al Einstein: "Man soll die Dinge so einfach machen wie möglich ~ aber nicht einfacher." (Things should be as simple as possible ~ but not too simple.)

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#36 2012-07-21 00:36:08

Terminator
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2012-05-07
Posts: 265

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

keepitsimpleengineer wrote:

The latest 12.04's os-prober won't detect Archlinux

Ubuntus os-prober does detect arch linux if the arch linux partition is mounted.

I know it for sure: This evening I decided to upgrade to grub2 and of course, PEBKAC all the way tongue. I removed the original grub folder and rebooted without running "grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg" . Since I don't actually know how to chroot (I know where I can find the instructions but I couldn't boot), I reinstalled xubuntu on my spare partition. Xubuntu found arch linux after I mounted my arch partition. So finally, I got back into my arch, ran grub-mkconfig and grub-install. Now, it works.

Note: I know that I could solve it without reinstalling xubuntu but I'm a reinstaller tongue. That's why I have spare partitions for in case something goes wrong. Also, no need to point out that I failed to follow very basic instructions smile.

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#37 2012-07-21 00:50:59

keepitsimpleengineer
Member
From: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Registered: 2012-06-25
Posts: 284
Website

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Terminator wrote:
keepitsimpleengineer wrote:

The latest 12.04's os-prober won't detect Archlinux

Ubuntus os-prober does detect arch linux if the arch linux partition is mounted.

I know it for sure: This evening I decided to upgrade to grub2 and of course, PEBKAC all the way tongue. I removed the original grub folder and rebooted without running "grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg" . Since I don't actually know how to chroot (I know where I can find the instructions but I couldn't boot), I reinstalled xubuntu on my spare partition. Xubuntu found arch linux after I mounted my arch partition. So finally, I got back into my arch, ran grub-mkconfig and grub-install. Now, it works.

Note: I know that I could solve it without reinstalling xubuntu but I'm a reinstaller tongue. That's why I have spare partitions for in case something goes wrong. Also, no need to point out that I failed to follow very basic instructions smile.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour … ug/1026774


Al Einstein: "Man soll die Dinge so einfach machen wie möglich ~ aber nicht einfacher." (Things should be as simple as possible ~ but not too simple.)

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#38 2012-07-21 01:18:18

Terminator
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2012-05-07
Posts: 265

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Well, it might not work for everyone, but xubuntus os-prober detects arch linux on my system:

[dean@PsyMadness apt]$ tail /mnt/ubuntu/var/log/apt/term.log 
ubuntu-standard wordt verwijderd ...
memtest86+ wordt verwijderd ...
Generating grub.cfg ...
Found background image: /usr/share/images/desktop-base/desktop-grub.png
Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-23-generic
Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-3.2.0-23-generic
Found Windows 7 (loader) on /dev/sda1
Found Arch on /dev/sda5
done
Log ended: 2012-07-21  01:39:47

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#39 2012-07-21 01:21:04

keepitsimpleengineer
Member
From: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Registered: 2012-06-25
Posts: 284
Website

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Terminator wrote:

Well, it might not work for everyone, but xubuntus os-prober detects arch linux on my system:

[dean@PsyMadness apt]$ tail /mnt/ubuntu/var/log/apt/term.log 
ubuntu-standard wordt verwijderd ...
memtest86+ wordt verwijderd ...
Generating grub.cfg ...
Found background image: /usr/share/images/desktop-base/desktop-grub.png
Found linux image: /boot/vmlinuz-3.2.0-23-generic
Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-3.2.0-23-generic
Found Windows 7 (loader) on /dev/sda1
Found Arch on /dev/sda5
done
Log ended: 2012-07-21  01:39:47

The 10.04 LTS version worked and the Archlinux version worked....


Al Einstein: "Man soll die Dinge so einfach machen wie möglich ~ aber nicht einfacher." (Things should be as simple as possible ~ but not too simple.)

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#40 2012-07-21 01:31:16

Terminator
Member
From: Belgium
Registered: 2012-05-07
Posts: 265

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

The log is from my fresh Xubuntu 12.04 install (I guess you can see that from the kernel version). However, let's stop the arguing. I didn't mean that you were wrong. Just that in my case, the Xubuntu 12.04's os-prober does detect Arch Linux.

Last edited by Terminator (2012-07-21 01:32:59)

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#41 2012-07-21 14:21:03

ratcheer
Member
Registered: 2011-10-09
Posts: 506

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

keepitsimpleengineer wrote:

The background: I came to Archlinux to regain some advanced features Ubuntu has been quietly deprecating.  The latest 12.04's os-prober won't detect Archlinux...

Although I recently switched to Sabayon 9 as my grub2 control installation, until about two weeks ago I was using Ubuntu 12.04 for grub2, and it has no problem at all detecting my Arch installation.

Tim

Last edited by ratcheer (2012-07-21 14:23:22)

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#42 2012-07-21 15:10:22

keepitsimpleengineer
Member
From: San Joaquin Valley, CA
Registered: 2012-06-25
Posts: 284
Website

Re: Grub2 - is it coming?

Terminator wrote:

The log is from my fresh Xubuntu 12.04 install (I guess you can see that from the kernel version). However, let's stop the arguing. I didn't mean that you were wrong. Just that in my case, the Xubuntu 12.04's os-prober does detect Arch Linux.

ratcheer wrote:

Although I recently switched to Sabayon 9 as my grub2 control installation, until about two weeks ago I was using Ubuntu 12.04 for grub2, and it has no problem at all detecting my Arch installation.

It's all likely due to the fact that the disk the Archlinux partitions are on is connected to this computer through a PCI-sata interface card which has it's own BIOS, and this is why the mainboard's BIOS mixes up the hard-drive order at boot.  Strange that only the one version of the os-prober fails.

I also recall that there was back and forth about using BIOS hard-drive order vice UUIDs for disk identification in early grub2 implementation.  Now there is a parameter you can set to defeat UUIDs for disk identification in /etc/default/grub.conf, the default being to use UUIDs.

In any case, the very good news is that Archlinux technical approach works much better for me than the Canonical approach, where the developers have to deal with the new Unity as well as Gnome, Xubuntu, Kubuntu, et al, and phasing out Compiz.  I don't envy the task they have chosen, wish them well, and think if they succeed many more folks will be using Linux.

In fact I'm so happy with Archlinux, my face hurts from grinning so much.

Last edited by keepitsimpleengineer (2012-07-21 18:00:49)


Al Einstein: "Man soll die Dinge so einfach machen wie möglich ~ aber nicht einfacher." (Things should be as simple as possible ~ but not too simple.)

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