Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

ANOKNUSA · 2012-08-10 06:22:34

tomegun wrote:

vostok4 wrote:
I hate typing the full commands out to stop/start/restart services (especially having to write foo.service.... !@#)
Once 188 is out, this should no longer be necessary [0].
[0]: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/systemd/sys … 08c40dd909

Niiiiiiiiice... Thanks for the heads-up, tomegun. This'll save some work on the fingers and space in the .bashrc file. A little bit, anyway.

89c51 · 2012-08-14 14:15:37

Since this seems to be the general systemd discussion thread could someone explain why the startup time isn't registered on the journal?? It used to write it but not anymore. Also the journal used to store the message buffer of the kernel but as it seems it was removed in the latest versions. Is there a way of re enabling it? And is it possible to direct log files like pm-suspend to the journal??

skanky · 2012-08-14 14:59:29

From journald.conf man page:

ImportKernel=
Controls whether kernel log messages shall be stored in the journal. Takes a boolean
argument and defaults to disabled. Note that currently only one userspace service can
read kernel messages at a time, which means that kernel log message reading might get
corrupted if it is enabled in more than one service, for example in both the journal
and a traditional syslog service.

PReP · 2012-08-14 15:55:46

I just want to give some creds to Allan for this blog-post of his:

http://allanmcrae.com/2012/08/are-we-re … rch-linux/

It made sense to me, they way he explained things there,
especially about our beloved rc.conf.

I will though remain a bit sceptical as to the actual need for systemd anywhere (not arch-specific),
but i will adapt, for my love of arch.

So Thanks to Allan for atleast easing my mind as i try to roll along with Arch into the unknown future.

Last edited by PReP (2012-08-15 08:07:56)

WonderWoofy · 2012-08-15 04:20:55

Phoronix has just reported that Arch will be moving to systemd

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n … px=MTE2MDE

ngoonee · 2012-08-15 04:50:28

WonderWoofy wrote:

Phoronix has just reported that Arch will be moving to systemd
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n … px=MTE2MDE

Which was announced and 'discussed' (if +1's count as discussion) yesterday on arch-dev-public, which all Arch users should really subscribe to.

PReP · 2012-08-15 08:09:44

Perhaps we should make a mailing-list subscription one of the needed steps to register to the forums?

Or just automatically spam it to anyone registering

Osiris · 2012-08-15 12:08:17

Is a arch-dev mailinglist subscription really so imperative? I'm monitoring through a RSS subscription of the homepage and with G+ which I trusted was enough to stay up to date.....

To be not completely off topic:

What is it about cron with systemd? I heard that systemd replaces cron... Is it a complete drop in replacement and reads /etc/cron.* ? Do I still need/should run a cron daemon (cronie?) on my system?

bwat47 · 2012-08-15 13:49:03

Osiris wrote:

Is a arch-dev mailinglist subscription really so imperative? I'm monitoring through a RSS subscription of the homepage and with G+ which I trusted was enough to stay up to date.....
To be not completely off topic:
What is it about cron with systemd? I heard that systemd replaces cron... Is it a complete drop in replacement and reads /etc/cron.* ? Do I still need/should run a cron daemon (cronie?) on my system?

You can sort of replace simple cron jobs with systemd timer units. I wasn't able to find much documentation on them though... The only cron jobs I ever used were the default ones though, and a user on the bbs wrote a little guide on replacing them with timer units, I did this the other day and it worked fine:

Post #1393 on this page: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1101185

Last edited by bwat47 (2012-08-15 13:50:15)

65kid · 2012-08-15 14:40:47

it can't fully replace cron (yet). The post mentioned by bwat47 should give you an idea of how it works. You can do stuff like "every hour/week" etc., but things like "every friday at 10 am" are not supported yet, but it's on systemd's todo list.
I guess it would make sense if systemd ships a crontab generator which automatically generates the timer units (just like the fstab and crypttab generators). No idea if they are going to do that though...

tomegun · 2012-08-15 15:57:08

65kid wrote:

it can't fully replace cron (yet). The post mentioned by bwat47 should give you an idea of how it works. You can do stuff like "every hour/week" etc., but things like "every friday at 10 am" are not supported yet, but it's on systemd's todo list.
I guess it would make sense if systemd ships a crontab generator which automatically generates the timer units (just like the fstab and crypttab generators). No idea if they are going to do that though...

Once the features are there, making your own generator should be really easy.

ZekeSulastin · 2012-08-15 16:49:41

Osiris wrote:

Is a arch-dev mailinglist subscription really so imperative? I'm monitoring through a RSS subscription of the homepage and with G+ which I trusted was enough to stay up to date.....

It can help - you'll hear about Big Changes quite a bit earlier and see the process that goes into making the final change pushed to everyone. Also, there's not too much traffic on it

webspider · 2012-08-16 21:03:00

Switched now and had no problems so far (this is probably due to me being reluctant adding tons of daemons).

Times on an Asus 1001PX with LVM on LUKS, powerdown from AUR, no login manager and dwm:

Suspend to RAM: 2s + 3s wake up time
Suspend to disk: 8s + 20s wake up time
Shutdown: 4s
Boot: 30s

hume's doona · 2012-08-17 10:19:36

I installed it in virtualbox. Smooth there, but being a fresh install, it doesn't have all my neglect of "the old syntax is still supported" that will need further tweaking, or anywhere near the amount of bloat of my desktop.

So I'm putting it off a bit more, but looking forward to the ride, it's been a while since I got to geek properly, and this might save an extra gentoo VM or something just to entertain me

dolby · 2012-08-20 09:13:08

Hi. Which packages does systemd replace?
I've counted four so far, but im pretty new to this. The ones i know are: initscripts and sysvinit of course, as well as syslog-ng and consolekit. Are there any others im missing?

PS. Yes, i have read the documentation about systemd in the Arch wiki.

nierro · 2012-08-20 09:46:51

Well, acpid too and pm-utils, except for pm-powersave!'

ngoonee · 2012-08-20 09:49:03

dolby wrote:

Hi. Which packages does systemd replace?
I've counted four so far, but im pretty new to this. The ones i know are: initscripts and sysvinit of course, as well as syslog-ng and consolekit. Are there any others im missing?
PS. Yes, i have read the documentation about systemd in the Arch wiki.

No, I did NOT ask you to ask in another thread. This sort of question is not welcome anywhere on the Arch forums, since the information is readily available....

dolby · 2012-08-20 09:53:52

ngoonee wrote:

dolby wrote:
Hi. Which packages does systemd replace?
I've counted four so far, but im pretty new to this. The ones i know are: initscripts and sysvinit of course, as well as syslog-ng and consolekit. Are there any others im missing?
PS. Yes, i have read the documentation about systemd in the Arch wiki.
No, I did NOT ask you to ask in another thread. This sort of question is not welcome anywhere on the Arch forums, since the information is readily available....

This is open source. EVERYTHING is readily available.
Thanks.

scjet · 2012-08-31 21:24:50

...unless of course, arch ports over something like this; http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/ … 70713.html
just in case, you actually do NOT want "systemd" from redhat/poettering, and prefer a "simpler" and much more "controllable" init's, as Arch used to be ?
However, this would be possibly complicated ?
and yes, I stole that link from somewhere.

Last edited by scjet (2012-08-31 21:26:48)

PReP · 2012-10-22 14:40:18

I just migrated my second machine (the prep.mine.nu server) to systemd.
It was a bit more work then my desktop, but at the moment the gears are grinding onwards.

. I yet again had trouble getting my static-ip set up; I copied over the network.service unit i used for this machine, but i first forgot that systemd needs the units in /etc/systemd/system/xxx.target.wants/ to be a symlink.
. Another issue was that i got either ddclient or dhcpcd added and started automatically as i migrated, and those messed up my ip.
. The third was that my /etc/rc.local seemed to be started as a legacy service, no matter what i did, but i removed the WOL-lines i had there which i had forgotten, and it stopped failing atleast.

The server uses this at the moment: network.service, ddclient.service, cronie.service, httpd.service, ntpd.service, remote.fs-target, sshd & sshdgenkeys.service.

[prep@preptus_server ~]$ systemd-analyze 

Startup finished in 1624ms (kernel) + 7412ms (userspace) = 9036ms

[prep@preptus_server ~]$ systemd-analyze blame

  2915ms httpd.service
  2335ms ddclient.service
  1239ms iptables.service
   970ms ntpd.service
   922ms systemd-logind.service
   911ms systemd-modules-load.service
   670ms systemd-vconsole-setup.service
   670ms systemd-udevd.service
   624ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
   426ms systemd-remount-fs.service
   265ms network.service
   259ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
   256ms dev-hugepages.mount
   244ms dev-mqueue.mount
   202ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
    85ms systemd-user-sessions.service
    46ms rc-local.service
    42ms home.mount
    23ms systemd-sysctl.service
    22ms tmp.mount
     0ms proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.mount

1. I was relieved for the cronie and ddclient-services, as i was most afraid of lacking that functionality; i have a bunch of stuff generated for the webpage from minecraft-logs and such.

2. It would perhaps be neat to have the network.service as a default one shipped with systemd on arch, if there is no other similar static-ip non-deamon-running way currently?

3. Thanks to tom g. and all the other devs for the hard work, i see you are part-taking on the systemd-mailing-list and contributing there aswell a bit, some of you,
and that does in fact make arch seeming a little safer place to be when tackling the future of systemd.

I am still a bit frightened as to the future of systemd and the general direction, but we have all been on that topic too much so i will just shut up about it, and just give some credits and kudos for the work and insight, even when opinions differ

Thanks.

Last edited by PReP (2012-10-22 15:08:07)

tomk · 2012-10-22 15:47:12

PReP wrote:

2. It would perhaps be neat to have the network.service as a default one shipped with systemd on arch, if there is no other similar static-ip non-deamon-running way currently?

Use netcfg.

MorningWood · 2012-11-01 05:51:14

I just got done migrating over to systemd and I'm a bit ....perplexed.
The process took me a while simply because of the fact that I was a bit taken back by the new manager and did my share of research.
The actual setup and configuration almost seemed like it took too little time (now I'm doubting myself and wondering if I've covered all of the bases). Seems that everything works and I do enjoy the increase in boot-up speed but do kind of miss how "pretty" the initscripts boot-up was.

Last edited by MorningWood (2012-11-01 05:53:35)

dolby · 2012-11-01 16:09:24

The missing systemd unit rebuild [0] could be a removing initscripts compatibility (rc.d and conf.d files) at the same time.

Whats the point in saying that support for initscripts exist if bug reports for those scripts get closed without fixing them
eg ( https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/31890 https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/32354 https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/32336 https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/32275 ) while at the same time having initscripts installed can cause problems due to serialization of the starting of daemons?
Essentially initscripts support in Arch ended the day systemd hit the core repository.

[0]: https://www.archlinux.org/todolists/#178

tomegun · 2012-11-01 21:43:32

dolby wrote:

The missing systemd unit rebuild [0] could be a removing initscripts compatibility (rc.d and conf.d files) at the same time.
Whats the point in saying that support for initscripts exist if bug reports for those scripts get closed without fixing them
eg ( https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/31890 https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/32354 https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/32336 https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/32275 ) while at the same time having initscripts installed can cause problems due to serialization of the starting of daemons?
Essentially initscripts support in Arch ended the day systemd hit the core repository.
[0]: https://www.archlinux.org/todolists/#178

We are not actively breaking initscripts setups, but if people want it supported / bugs fixed, they'd probably be better off following the suggestions I made on the ML a month ago: http://archlinux.2023198.n4.nabble.com/ … 61493.html

dolby · 2012-11-01 23:51:58

tomegun wrote:

We are not actively breaking initscripts setups, but if people want it supported / bugs fixed, they'd probably be better off following the suggestions I made on the ML a month ago: http://archlinux.2023198.n4.nabble.com/ … 61493.html

Since none of the developers wants to support initscripts, only one TU seems to have shown interest so far, if bugs about conf.d and rc.d scripts were assigned to the rc-scripts maintainer, instead of uninterested developers, chances are they might got fixed/implemented.
For example https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/31035 is closed as 'systemd is preferred now in Arch'.
And there are other open reports about conf.d and rc.d scripts.

Arch Linux

#76 2012-08-10 06:22:34

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#77 2012-08-14 14:15:37

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#78 2012-08-14 14:59:29

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#79 2012-08-14 15:55:46

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#80 2012-08-15 04:20:55

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#81 2012-08-15 04:50:28

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#82 2012-08-15 08:09:44

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#83 2012-08-15 12:08:17

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#84 2012-08-15 13:49:03

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#85 2012-08-15 14:40:47

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#86 2012-08-15 15:57:08

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#87 2012-08-15 16:49:41

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#88 2012-08-16 21:03:00

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#89 2012-08-17 10:19:36

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#90 2012-08-20 09:13:08

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#91 2012-08-20 09:46:51

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#92 2012-08-20 09:49:03

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#93 2012-08-20 09:53:52

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#94 2012-08-31 21:24:50

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#95 2012-10-22 14:40:18

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#96 2012-10-22 15:47:12

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#97 2012-11-01 05:51:14

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#98 2012-11-01 16:09:24

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#99 2012-11-01 21:43:32

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

#100 2012-11-01 23:51:58

Re: Getting a grip on systemd, just in case.

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