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#1 2012-08-18 13:06:44

duster
Member
From: Western MASS USA
Registered: 2012-08-16
Posts: 48

C++ Study Group Anyone?

Im hoping to find people interested in learning or brushing up on or teaching C++

if any of these interest... please reply and lets try to pick a book and do a study group


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#2 2012-08-18 14:34:10

drobole
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From: Norway
Registered: 2012-07-23
Posts: 123

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

I have wasted about 20 years on that language so I don't mind helping out others.
I say wasted because I have never really needed it in my programming career. It is simply too complex and too hard to use right to be the best choice for most applications. And that is even more true as the projects grow bigger.
Still, I don't mind helping out anyone who seriously want s to go down that road.

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#3 2012-08-18 14:40:51

Trilby
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From: Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 2011-11-29
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Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

Duster,

You may want to check with Meskarune and/or see if this could be woven in with the Arch Classroom idea.

I'm not sure if that project has reached the 'critical mass' needed yet to really take off, but if a couple good ideas (c++ group and arch classrooms) come together in the starting phases they may each benefit.

Last edited by Trilby (2012-08-18 14:42:04)


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#4 2012-08-18 15:41:29

spark666
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Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 137

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

I`m in big_smile

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#5 2012-08-18 17:04:13

duster
Member
From: Western MASS USA
Registered: 2012-08-16
Posts: 48

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

well not sure about the other thread ill link this thread in if thats how i should handle it but spark666 and drobole lets pick a book and get started hopefully others will join in


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#6 2012-08-18 17:09:18

duster
Member
From: Western MASS USA
Registered: 2012-08-16
Posts: 48

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

im using codeblocks incase it makes a difference and a book i thought would be good to start with is SAMS Teach Yourself Visual C++ 6 in 21 Days let me know if you have something better

-- edit --

scratch that it seems its a microsoft vis C++ book sry

if there are no objections we can use C++ for dummies 5th edition

Last edited by duster (2012-08-18 18:01:29)


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#7 2012-08-18 18:27:33

spark666
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Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 137

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

duster wrote:

let me know if you have something better

I`m using this one >> http://www.amazon.com/Jamsas-C-Programm … 1884133258 (i really hope its this one,couse im using the version translated im my language tongue )
and its a very good book.It`s kinda windows os oriented,but from my point of view doesnt matter if they tell you to use their IDE,you can simply use gcc + vim like i`m doing.Cheers big_smile

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#8 2012-08-18 22:11:13

Trent
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From: Baltimore, MD (US)
Registered: 2009-04-16
Posts: 987

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

spark666 wrote:
duster wrote:

let me know if you have something better

I`m using this one >> http://www.amazon.com/Jamsas-C-Programm … 1884133258 (i really hope its this one,couse im using the version translated im my language tongue )
and its a very good book.It`s kinda windows os oriented,but from my point of view doesnt matter if they tell you to use their IDE,you can simply use gcc + vim like i`m doing.Cheers big_smile

You have got to be kidding me. On top of the atrocious "organization" of topics under a few thousand* 1/2-2 page "tips" loosely ordered by stream-of-consciousness, it doesn't even have the decency to include a minimally adequate index. It teaches bad C and bad C++ as an extension on top of C, not as a separate language. Practically every example uses some kind of implementation-specific behavior. It teaches every textbook example of bad practice from void main() to system("pause"). I have previously described this book as the worst textbook I've ever read and the worst reference manual I've ever used.* It's one of only two books that I have recycled instead of sending to the Goodwill, because the paper is actually more valuable than the text printed on it.* It was a waste of money 15 years ago. The sooner you ditch it the happier you will be.

* No exaggeration applied.

On the topic of books...

IMNSHO, the best introductory programming text (not C++) I've ever read is Learning Perl; it flows well, is well-organized into chapters with exercises of reasonable length, targets new programmers, is easy and fun to read, applies good practices to examples and uses the language effectively. I recommend it to everyone new to programming who doesn't mind paying for a book.

Similarly, I like Learning Python, but that book is better suited to experienced programmers wanting to get a leg up in a second, third or tenth language. It's comparable to The C Programming Language in that way. Point is, a new programmer learning C++ as a first language, an experienced programmer learning C++ as a new language, and a former C++ programmer brushing up are probably going to want different books.

I don't program C++. I barely know more of the language than std::cout << "hello, world". I don't know what book would be best for any of those categories and I encourage you to find a better source for advice. However, I do have one C++ book that I haven't gotten rid of, and on the strength of the first two chapters I can recommend it -- Stroustrup's The C++ Programming Language. Notably, and in part due to Stroustrup's interest in separating his brainchild from C, it describes C++ as a language very different from C, and emphasizes using C++ in a way completely different from C. As a C programmer, I see this as a very strong point in its favor.

Just my two cents.

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#9 2012-08-18 23:41:52

duster
Member
From: Western MASS USA
Registered: 2012-08-16
Posts: 48

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

im gonna take a look at both of those titles guys


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#10 2012-08-19 15:03:05

duster
Member
From: Western MASS USA
Registered: 2012-08-16
Posts: 48

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

so after some glancing over and looking through the books i had... i think the most informational book on C++ is

The C++ Programming Language
Third Edition
By: Bjarne Stroutrup

The reason I think this would be a benifical book for our group is it not only deals with the C++ standard library but is targeted at novice C++ coders and organized not only around language but also teaches fundemental concepts which make it a benifit for people who already know some coding... as for the other book sparks666 we can definitly do this group around other books in the future i just think the one Trent listed is a better place to start.

The next questions i have are: How do we want to go about the group and where to have discussions online so that everyone/anyone can attend?  so that i can draw up a plan.


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#11 2012-08-19 16:18:00

spark666
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Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 137

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

Skype?or irc?or? tongue

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#12 2012-08-19 18:11:40

duster
Member
From: Western MASS USA
Registered: 2012-08-16
Posts: 48

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

Hey sparks666 im trying to get us a page on https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Classroom

gonna start buggin people i need to till it gets done and im writing up a lesson plan today ill post some stuff up here in this thread till things on classroom wiki start happening...  if your still interested in it get a copy of that book and well just use skype for now if youve got it... that work?

im hoping to have this rolling by september 1st


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#13 2012-08-19 18:46:53

Nisstyre56
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From: Canada
Registered: 2010-03-25
Posts: 82

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

duster wrote:

im using codeblocks incase it makes a difference and a book i thought would be good to start with is SAMS Teach Yourself Visual C++ 6 in 21 Days let me know if you have something better

Avoid "Learn $TECHNOLOGY in $TIME" books at all costs.

http://norvig.com/21-days.html


In Zen they say: If something is boring after two minutes, try it for four. If still boring, try it for eight, sixteen, thirty-two, and so on. Eventually one discovers that it's not boring at all but very interesting.
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#14 2012-08-19 20:48:40

duster
Member
From: Western MASS USA
Registered: 2012-08-16
Posts: 48

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

noted... we are using

The C++ Programming Language
Third Edition
By: Bjarne Stroutrup

as it was recommended

Last edited by duster (2012-08-19 20:49:00)


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#15 2012-08-19 21:15:52

debdj
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Registered: 2012-01-19
Posts: 163

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

I follow the complete reference books by Herb Schildt.
The writing is very easy, precise and in-depth.

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#16 2012-08-19 21:52:41

duster
Member
From: Western MASS USA
Registered: 2012-08-16
Posts: 48

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

im not sure how many of you are interested in this study group happening besides spark666

please do let me know whos interested so i know how big a group we can expect


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#17 2012-08-19 23:59:11

Trent
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From: Baltimore, MD (US)
Registered: 2009-04-16
Posts: 987

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

It seems you've already made a selection (and I think probably a good one), but I did a little more digging and found this, which might be useful for future reference or if you want to list alternative or supplemental materials: The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List
It seems pretty well edited by people who know what they're doing. I found it via this FAQ on /r/learnprogramming.

The ACCU has book reviews that are well written and generally of good quality; at least, I have never been steered wrong by one of them

Last edited by Trent (2012-08-20 14:01:28)

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#18 2012-08-20 00:34:18

spark666
Member
Registered: 2011-05-23
Posts: 137

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

Nisstyre56 wrote:

Avoid "Learn $TECHNOLOGY in $TIME" books at all costs.http://norvig.com/21-days.html

Very nice article ,tnx big_smile

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#19 2012-08-20 00:58:39

duster
Member
From: Western MASS USA
Registered: 2012-08-16
Posts: 48

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

spark666 wrote:
Nisstyre56 wrote:

Avoid "Learn $TECHNOLOGY in $TIME" books at all costs.http://norvig.com/21-days.html

Very nice article ,tnx big_smile


indeed yes. that was worth the read and thank you


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#20 2012-08-20 01:06:25

duster
Member
From: Western MASS USA
Registered: 2012-08-16
Posts: 48

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

Thanks to everyone who gave input on study material... the next step it seems is either getting our own group together or waiting on a reply from https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Classroom people... though from a study group point of view i believe we can move on and perhaps collaberate on a good solid classroom lesson plan from our expierance as a group.   either way we need people so hopefully a few more come along so we can get started.  spark if you wouldnt mind could u post some schedule times that work for you? as well as anyone else interested


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#21 2012-08-20 22:41:18

debdj
Member
Registered: 2012-01-19
Posts: 163

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

It would be great if there was something like this on archforums: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1714324

I believe its quite possible and is relevant too.
Interested?

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#22 2012-08-21 03:40:39

duster
Member
From: Western MASS USA
Registered: 2012-08-16
Posts: 48

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

oh that would be cool... as soon as this project gets rolling we may be able to use that idea as classroom material which would be great.  thanks for showing me the idea im in... perhaps in study groups as they happen we can write up a couple and figure out a way to keep them going

--edit--

and sorry for not putting things together on the spot i got caught up in another project and what not so trying to juggle a couple things

Last edited by duster (2012-08-21 03:41:52)


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#23 2012-08-21 03:50:12

Daedalus1
Member
Registered: 2011-11-17
Posts: 24

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

I think you've made a mistake choosing The C++ Programming Language by Bjarne Stroustrup. It's not a bad book, but there are equally great books available for free that would be more accessible to people in this group, like Thinking in C++ by Bruce Eckel.

Last edited by Daedalus1 (2012-08-21 03:51:32)

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#24 2012-08-21 08:40:29

drobole
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2012-07-23
Posts: 123

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

Here is the books I would choose

1. Accelerated C++
2. Effective C++ series by Scott Meyers
3. Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software

in that order.

I would also use the C++ FAQ (http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/) and the language specification (http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/ … /n3242.pdf) to dig deeper into the quirks of the language. And there is quite a few of those...

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#25 2012-08-21 09:40:03

nobody44
Member
Registered: 2011-08-25
Posts: 28

Re: C++ Study Group Anyone?

Hi,
I am just wondering: How do you want to study C++? Do you want to program small projects? Or do you want to read as much as possible and start to program afterwards?
How many programming languages do you know? Because C++ is NOT easy to understand and it is not a very good choice as first programming language :-/ (in my opinion).
Good luck smile!

nobody44

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