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#1 2012-08-28 06:57:05

adam777
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Registered: 2012-05-28
Posts: 158

[Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

Hello all,
A few months back I gave Arch a spin and it was great, but decided to wait for Windows 8 RTM to come out to check it out as well.
Windows 8 being the horrible thing it is, Arch is the way to go, and I would like to do a test installation alongside Windows 7, in order to make sure I can make the switch permanently.
Having followed the forums pretty consistently, it seems that systemd is the future.
Instead of waiting for it to be integrated (which is supposed to happen at some point), I was wondering if I can somehow install a pure systemd system as part of the basic installation and not installing initscripts at all.
Thanks, Adam.

Last edited by adam777 (2012-08-28 12:55:27)

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#2 2012-08-28 07:23:23

andmars
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Registered: 2012-03-13
Posts: 153

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

yes, that's absolutely possible and has nothing to do with Windows 7 at all. Just follow the systemd Wiki after the base installation and you won't have to set up a rc.conf at all.

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#3 2012-08-28 10:55:20

Trilby
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From: Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 13,520
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Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

I just went through the new install procedure recently.  While initscripts are part of the core install there are two options.  As a preview - I'd suggest the second one.

1) You can manually select which packages to install and not install any of the initscripts packages but only systemd.  This may take a bit more planning and knowledge of exactly which packages are relevant - but there aren't that many.

2) Follow through with the base install which will install initscripts and sysVinit.  But as the transition to systemd is being prepared for, the default rc.conf is almost empty and there is no need to ever touch it during the installation.  Instead the basic installation has you create the files that would also be used to systemd.  This then makes the post-install transition to systemd much easier.  You'd only uninstall a few small packages and install a couple others.  Following the wiki page on transitioning from initscripts to systemd on a fresh install took less that 5 minutes because of how rc.conf is already in a transitional state.

So, while the second version has a couple steps to do then undo, I think it's a bit simpler as you don't need to worry as much about exactly what to do when.  Just follow the base installation, then follow the transition to systemd wiki.


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#4 2012-08-28 11:26:26

progandy
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Registered: 2012-05-17
Posts: 2,146

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

Trilby wrote:

2) Follow through with the base install which will install initscripts and sysVinit.

That is the way I'd go. Simplay pacstrap the base group, then enter the installation with arch-chroot and install systemd including systemd-sysvcompat. Now configure everything the way you need.

Last edited by progandy (2012-08-28 11:27:08)

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#5 2012-08-28 12:55:16

adam777
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Registered: 2012-05-28
Posts: 158

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

Thanks all.
Doesn't seem too complicated/waste of time so I'll go with Trilby's second suggestion.
Marking as solved.

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#6 2012-08-28 20:01:28

Mr.Elendig
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From: The intertubes
Registered: 2004-11-07
Posts: 3,714

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

You can also have some fun with this alternate install image: http://pkgbuild.com/~dreisner/archlinux … x86_64.iso  (64bit only)


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#7 2012-08-29 02:09:57

mhertz
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2010-06-19
Posts: 664

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

#!/bin/bash
[...]
pacstrap /mnt base{,-devel} syslinux
pacman -r /mnt --noconfirm -Rsn initscripts sysvinit
pacstrap /mnt systemd{,-sysvcompat}
syslinux-install_update -c /mnt -iam
[...]

Last edited by mhertz (2012-08-29 03:09:05)

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#8 2012-09-02 13:44:38

adam777
Member
Registered: 2012-05-28
Posts: 158

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

Mr.Elendig wrote:

You can also have some fun with this alternate install image: http://pkgbuild.com/~dreisner/archlinux … x86_64.iso  (64bit only)

And what might this image be?

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#9 2012-09-05 00:44:17

luvfree
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 80

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

Mr.Elendig wrote:

You can also have some fun with this alternate install image: http://pkgbuild.com/~dreisner/archlinux … x86_64.iso  (64bit only)

does this image install a pure systemd setup?
I'm planning on a complete reinstall once I find such an iso.


Currently triple booting Arch Linux, Sabayon 10, and Ubuntu 12.04 from scratch...

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#10 2012-09-05 01:02:02

Barrucadu
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From: York, England
Registered: 2008-03-30
Posts: 1,158
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Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

luvfree wrote:

does this image install a pure systemd setup?
I'm planning on a complete reinstall once I find such an iso.

There's absolutely no need to reinstall in order to set up systemd.

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#11 2012-09-05 01:33:28

luvfree
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Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 80

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

Barrucadu wrote:
luvfree wrote:

does this image install a pure systemd setup?
I'm planning on a complete reinstall once I find such an iso.

There's absolutely no need to reinstall in order to set up systemd.

I know as I already have it set up.
I'm fairly new to arch and for me it's quite normal to reinstall several times when changing distros.
Right now I have 4 DE's installed and most certainly will reinstall with only one once I decide which to keep.
I will do so once an iso that installs a pure systemd system becomes available.
This transitional install has a lot of excess baggage.
I'm what you would call a linux tinker I suppose.
Reinstalling is what I do best. big_smile


Currently triple booting Arch Linux, Sabayon 10, and Ubuntu 12.04 from scratch...

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#12 2012-09-05 02:38:16

mhertz
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From: Denmark
Registered: 2010-06-19
Posts: 664

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

Installing a pure systemd base-install, only need two additional pacman commands, as I allready posted previously in this thread:

pacman -r /mnt --noconfirm -Rsn initscripts sysvinit
pacstrap /mnt systemd{,-sysvcompat}

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#13 2012-09-05 02:52:32

luvfree
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 80

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

mhertz wrote:

Installing a pure systemd base-install, only need two additional pacman commands, as I allready posted previously in this thread:

pacman -r /mnt --noconfirm -Rsn initscripts sysvinit
pacstrap /mnt systemd{,-sysvcompat}

yes I did that on my existing install but it's still using sysvcompat as a bridge which leaves lots of baggage around.
I'm going to reinstall anyway so why not wait until the iso doesn't pacstrap the old initscripts and sysvinit?
Just makes for a cleaner install all around.
I'm certainly not going to leave this install on with 4 installed desktop environments.
this is what you might call my test drive install.
I do this every time I switch to a new distro to decide what I want to keep.
So if I'm going to reinstall anyway why not do a clean systemd install instead of this bridged version?
I'm not one that gets attached to my OS so reinstalling has no drawbacks for me.

Last edited by luvfree (2012-09-05 02:54:40)


Currently triple booting Arch Linux, Sabayon 10, and Ubuntu 12.04 from scratch...

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#14 2012-09-05 03:02:39

bernarcher
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From: Germany
Registered: 2009-02-17
Posts: 2,271

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

luvfree wrote:

yes I did that on my existing install but it's still using sysvcompat as a bridge which leaves lots of baggage around.

Does it? It appears to be not that much:

bp:~$ PM -Ql systemd-sysvcompat
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/halt
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/init
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/poweroff
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/reboot
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/runlevel
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/shutdown
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/telinit
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/halt.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/poweroff.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/reboot.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/runlevel.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/shutdown.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/telinit.8.gz

Most of this is simple convenient backwards compatibility. I'd keep it until I was sure no scripts needs one of them any more.


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#15 2012-09-05 03:16:11

luvfree
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 80

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

bernarcher wrote:
luvfree wrote:

yes I did that on my existing install but it's still using sysvcompat as a bridge which leaves lots of baggage around.

Does it? It appears to be not that much:

bp:~$ PM -Ql systemd-sysvcompat
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/halt
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/init
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/poweroff
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/reboot
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/runlevel
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/shutdown
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/telinit
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/halt.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/poweroff.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/reboot.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/runlevel.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/shutdown.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/telinit.8.gz

Most of this is simple convenient backwards compatibility. I'd keep it until I was sure no scripts needs one of them any more.

just look around the forums at all the systemd issues.
I'm not dreaming those up and have had a few of my own.
I'm going to reinstall anyway even if the sysvcompat doesn't go away.
ya know all I did was ask Mr.Elendig if his posted iso did a clean systemd install.


Currently triple booting Arch Linux, Sabayon 10, and Ubuntu 12.04 from scratch...

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#16 2012-09-05 03:19:51

mhertz
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2010-06-19
Posts: 664

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

luvfree wrote:

[...].
I'm going to reinstall anyway so why not wait until the iso doesn't pacstrap the old initscripts and sysvinit?
Just makes for a cleaner install all around.
I'm certainly not going to leave this install on with 4 installed desktop environments.[...]

I myself was also reinstalling alot and imaging and whatnot when I first began with linux(arch), but after some time I realised that it was pointless and linux dosen't need those reinstalls for optimization like windows did, and pacman has nifty switches to get you sorted on what you've explicitly installed and hence, can go delete the cruft not used anymore, or to list files not owned by any installed packages, to clean up in etc...

Nowadays, I newer reinstall unless something would go _really_ wrong, and only backup config-files and home-files, and keep a livecd around for rescue-operations, and an automated personal install script for if I ever do need to reinstall...

Anyway, of course it's your own choise smile

Last edited by mhertz (2012-09-05 03:23:14)

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#17 2012-09-05 03:38:30

luvfree
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 80

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

mhertz wrote:
luvfree wrote:

[...].
I'm going to reinstall anyway so why not wait until the iso doesn't pacstrap the old initscripts and sysvinit?
Just makes for a cleaner install all around.
I'm certainly not going to leave this install on with 4 installed desktop environments.[...]

I myself was also reinstalling alot and imaging and whatnot when I first began with linux(arch), but after some time I realised that it was pointless and linux dosen't need those reinstalls for optimization like windows did, and pacman has nifty switches to get you sorted on what you've explicitly installed and hence, can go delete the cruft not used anymore, or to list files not owned by any installed packages, to clean up in etc...

Nowadays, I newer reinstall unless something would go _really_ wrong, and only backup config-files and home-files, and keep a livecd around for rescue-operations, and an automated personal install script for if I ever do need to reinstall...

Anyway, of course it's your own choise smile

I understand and the arch way is awesome.
but it is still on the new side to me.
I've bloated this install with 4 desktop environments so a reinstall is inevitable. lol
once I settle on which one to keep I'll do just that.
it will be some time though I'm sure.
I'm just keeping my eye out for an iso without the old initscripts pacstapped to begin with.
it just HAS to be a cleaner install.
Thanks for your input though.
CHEERS. big_smile
Oh yeah and by the way I've used nothing but linux for over 10 years now.
No windoze here.

Last edited by luvfree (2012-09-05 03:40:22)


Currently triple booting Arch Linux, Sabayon 10, and Ubuntu 12.04 from scratch...

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#18 2012-09-05 04:05:18

luvfree
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 80

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

bernarcher wrote:
luvfree wrote:

yes I did that on my existing install but it's still using sysvcompat as a bridge which leaves lots of baggage around.

Does it? It appears to be not that much:

bp:~$ PM -Ql systemd-sysvcompat
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/halt
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/init
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/poweroff
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/reboot
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/runlevel
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/shutdown
systemd-sysvcompat /sbin/telinit
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/halt.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/poweroff.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/reboot.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/runlevel.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/shutdown.8.gz
systemd-sysvcompat /usr/share/man/man8/telinit.8.gz

Most of this is simple convenient backwards compatibility. I'd keep it until I was sure no scripts needs one of them any more.

I have a question here.
Isn't sysvcompat symlinks from systemd to sysvinit?

Last edited by luvfree (2012-09-05 04:30:49)


Currently triple booting Arch Linux, Sabayon 10, and Ubuntu 12.04 from scratch...

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#19 2012-09-05 04:27:38

mhertz
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2010-06-19
Posts: 664

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

Sysvcompat contains symbolic links to systemctl from systemd, to be backwards compatible with frequently used sysvinit commands like reboot, poweroff etc.

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#20 2012-09-05 04:35:36

luvfree
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 80

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

mhertz wrote:

Sysvcompat contains symbolic links to systemctl from systemd, to be backwards compatible with frequently used sysvinit commands like reboot, poweroff etc.

Thanks for the quick answer my friend.
With this being the case aren't there a bunch of sysvinit config files just taking up space?


Currently triple booting Arch Linux, Sabayon 10, and Ubuntu 12.04 from scratch...

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#21 2012-09-05 05:05:06

mhertz
Member
From: Denmark
Registered: 2010-06-19
Posts: 664

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

Sorry if i'm misunderstanding you, but there shouldn't be any sysvinit configs left...

When somethings calls e.g. reboot, then without sysvinit, then the command would fail, as it isn't found anywhere, but sysvcompat adds links so that instead systemd's systemctl command is run and used to reboot the system seamlessly...

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#22 2012-09-05 09:08:07

ataraxia
Member
From: Pittsburgh
Registered: 2007-05-06
Posts: 1,537

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

mhertz wrote:

Sorry if i'm misunderstanding you, but there shouldn't be any sysvinit configs left...

When somethings calls e.g. reboot, then without sysvinit, then the command would fail, as it isn't found anywhere, but sysvcompat adds links so that instead systemd's systemctl command is run and used to reboot the system seamlessly...

Also, systemd-sysvcompat includes a symlink from /sbin/init to systemd, so that you don't have to add "init=/bin/systemd" to your bootloader config in order to boot.

systemd-sysvcompat will be added to the base group when the switch is made, and will be present by default on new installs. I wouldn't bother trying to do without it.

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#23 2012-09-05 09:26:30

progandy
Member
Registered: 2012-05-17
Posts: 2,146

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

systemd-sysvcompat also introduces the dependency to sysvinit-tools which contains pidof. In my opinion systemd-sysvcompat could be included in systemd, but is not in order to allow parallel installation with initscripts.

Last edited by progandy (2012-09-05 17:47:23)

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#24 2012-09-05 14:33:23

luvfree
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 80

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

luvfree wrote:
mhertz wrote:

Sysvcompat contains symbolic links to systemctl from systemd, to be backwards compatible with frequently used sysvinit commands like reboot, poweroff etc.

Thanks for the quick answer my friend.
With this being the case aren't there a bunch of sysvinit config files just taking up space?

sorry my mistake.
I guess I'm a bit confused maybe?
On the GDM archwiki page right at the top it says.

Note: While this is currently still the default method, Arch Linux is in a transitional period between init solutions. Eventually, initscripts and sysvinit will be replaced with systemd. See below for systemd instructions if you are on a pure systemd solution already.

initscripts AND sysvinit

Last edited by luvfree (2012-09-05 15:48:03)


Currently triple booting Arch Linux, Sabayon 10, and Ubuntu 12.04 from scratch...

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#25 2012-09-06 01:16:06

Barrucadu
Member
From: York, England
Registered: 2008-03-30
Posts: 1,158
Website

Re: [Solved] Installting A Pure systemd System From Scratch

luvfree wrote:

sorry my mistake.
I guess I'm a bit confused maybe?
On the GDM archwiki page right at the top it says.

Note: While this is currently still the default method, Arch Linux is in a transitional period between init solutions. Eventually, initscripts and sysvinit will be replaced with systemd. See below for systemd instructions if you are on a pure systemd solution already.

initscripts AND sysvinit

Yes, if you switch to a pure systemd system, then initscripts and sysvinit are not required. I have done this myself. However, I still have systemd-sysvcompat installed, as I like having `shutdown`, `reboot`, &c available.

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