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#101 2012-08-30 20:58:30

tomk
Forum Fellow
From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,837

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

mamamia88, any modules that currently load automatically will continue to do so.

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#102 2012-08-31 01:37:15

mamamia88
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 483

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

thanks

Last edited by mamamia88 (2012-08-31 01:40:20)

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#103 2012-08-31 01:48:15

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,661

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

I do kind of wish systemd had remembered the "one job, one tool" policy when it came to designing graphs, though. I don't think this is one of its strengths. I have no idea what to make of the diagram which is supposed to tell me what depends on what and in what order things booted. I have stuff I've never heard of starting that I've no idea how to trace...

Right now I feel like it is trying to do a lot of stuff and refusing to tell me about it. I'm sure this is just because I don't know where to look or how to ask. I think I need diversion notices in the log files like they provide when they close roads smile. (And this is despite enabling the syslog-ng.service...)


How To Ask Questions The Smart Way | Help Vampires

Arch Linux | x86_64 | GPT | EFI boot | grub2 | systemd | LVM2 on LUKS
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#104 2012-08-31 01:55:32

TheSaint
Member
From: my computer
Registered: 2007-08-19
Posts: 1,378

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

What about directories in /etc like rc.d and modprobe.d. Are they useful anymore?


do it good first, it will be faster than do it twice the saint wink

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#105 2012-08-31 04:37:27

mamamia88
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 483

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Well i completely moved over.    Only real difference I notice is slightly faster boot and it would ask for my password to reboot and mount a flash drive as well as suspend/hibernate/reboot.  These problems seem to have dissappeared upon reboot or maybe it just remembered my password.  Anyway if anyone knows the text file that you can enable services that would be great. I know i can just systemctl enable nameofservice.service but i would still like the option. .   Also rc.conf appears blank after installing  systemd-sysvcompat so make sure you make a backup before installing.  Also net-profiles is called netcfg.service in case anyone needs to know.

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#106 2012-08-31 08:52:03

brain0
Developer
From: Aachen - Germany
Registered: 2005-01-03
Posts: 1,382

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

cfr wrote:

I do kind of wish systemd had remembered the "one job, one tool" policy when it came to designing graphs, though. I don't think this is one of its strengths. I have no idea what to make of the diagram which is supposed to tell me what depends on what and in what order things booted. I have stuff I've never heard of starting that I've no idea how to trace...

Right now I feel like it is trying to do a lot of stuff and refusing to tell me about it. I'm sure this is just because I don't know where to look or how to ask. I think I need diversion notices in the log files like they provide when they close roads smile. (And this is despite enabling the syslog-ng.service...)

'man bootup' would be a good first read, it answers some of your questions.

I have the feeling that systemd's boot output is much more fine-grained that what initscripts had.

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#107 2012-08-31 09:22:52

tomegun
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-05-28
Posts: 661

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

brain0 wrote:
cfr wrote:

I do kind of wish systemd had remembered the "one job, one tool" policy when it came to designing graphs, though. I don't think this is one of its strengths. I have no idea what to make of the diagram which is supposed to tell me what depends on what and in what order things booted. I have stuff I've never heard of starting that I've no idea how to trace...

Right now I feel like it is trying to do a lot of stuff and refusing to tell me about it. I'm sure this is just because I don't know where to look or how to ask. I think I need diversion notices in the log files like they provide when they close roads smile. (And this is despite enabling the syslog-ng.service...)

'man bootup' would be a good first read, it answers some of your questions.

There is also "systemctl help <something you don't know anything about>.service". E.g. "systemctl help systemd-timedated.service" gives you the timedated man page, then the timezone manpage and then prints a link to further online documentation. Most (if not all) units shipped by systemd have similar documentation available.

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#108 2012-08-31 09:38:37

blackout23
Member
Registered: 2011-11-16
Posts: 780

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

I think systemd analysis tools are great. Made me find out that "elevator=bfq" is slowing down my boot a lot. With it my startup takes 2.8 Seconds and without 1.6 Seconds.
dgjfb39q.png

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#109 2012-08-31 10:07:32

Teho
Member
Registered: 2010-01-30
Posts: 200

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

blackout23 wrote:

I think systemd analysis tools are great.

They are going to get a lot better in the future too:

* Auke: merge Auke's bootchart

-systemd TODO

Gummiboot can chain-load other boot loaders and is configured interactively rather than by creating and editing configuration files. With Poettering's involvement, it is no surprise that the tool also features integration with systemd. Performance data can be passed on to the daemon so that the system can report how much time was spent in the different stages of the boot process.

-H-Online

So yeah... in the future systemd can list the time spent on bootloader (Gummiboot at least), initramfs, kernel, userspace and the desktop separately with extreme detail.


HP Elitebook 8560w | Arch Linux | KDE

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#110 2012-08-31 10:35:18

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,173

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

I just made the switch, when libsystemd got replaced by systemd during my last update this morning. It took me about an hour, most of it was reading the wiki entry and playing with systemctl. The only thing I had to hack, was ftpd.service, because it fails when there is no valid network connection, so I added "After=dhcpcd@eth0.service". It works. Maybe I should add "After=network.target", like the rsyncd.service does... wait... yes, that worked.

It seems while adding complexity, systemd introduces a certain simplicity. I still don't understand the entire folder structure or how those services and paths and sockets work, but for those two hours I have been working with the system so far, I find it relatively easy.

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#111 2012-08-31 15:29:41

Mr.Elendig
#archlinux@freenode channel op
From: The intertubes
Registered: 2004-11-07
Posts: 3,721

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

TheSaint wrote:

What about directories in /etc like rc.d and modprobe.d. Are they useful anymore?

rc.d: no
modprobe.d: yes


Evil #archlinux@freenode channel op and general support dude.
. files on github, Screenshots, Random pics and the rest

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#112 2012-08-31 15:57:32

blackout23
Member
Registered: 2011-11-16
Posts: 780

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

If you have initscripts installed you can still run "sudo rc.d start boinc" had to do this because there was no native systemd service file. Created one with the help of the wiki a few days ago.

Last edited by blackout23 (2012-08-31 15:58:03)

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#113 2012-08-31 16:09:22

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,661

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

tomegun wrote:
brain0 wrote:

'man bootup' would be a good first read, it answers some of your questions.

There is also "systemctl help <something you don't know anything about>.service". E.g. "systemctl help systemd-timedated.service" gives you the timedated man page, then the timezone manpage and then prints a link to further online documentation. Most (if not all) units shipped by systemd have similar documentation available.

Thanks for these suggestions. I knew about help but not bootup. I'll take a look. The help doesn't work in the particular cases I'm interested in right now because there's no man page. Also, it tends to tell me about the particular service rather than why it is being started in the first place.

I'd like to know why stuff like colord.service and, especially, colord-sane.service are being started, for example. As far as I can tell the latter, at least, is almost completely superfluous in my case. I want sane stuff installed in case I need it at work but I don't want a scanner service started on every boot because the chances of my needing a scanner and having access to a working one are rather low. If I did need it, I would prefer to just start it as a one-off on that particular occasion.

But I'm less bothered about any particular example and more bothered that I can't figure out why stuff is happening the way it is.

However, right now I'm having more serious problems with X suddenly disappearing (today) and kernel panics (yesterday). I don't know if this is systemd related but it seems suspicious since I didn't have the issues before. Maybe something not configured right? But how to find out what?

Last edited by cfr (2012-08-31 16:10:11)


How To Ask Questions The Smart Way | Help Vampires

Arch Linux | x86_64 | GPT | EFI boot | grub2 | systemd | LVM2 on LUKS
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#114 2012-08-31 16:31:53

tomegun
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-05-28
Posts: 661

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

cfr wrote:

I'd like to know why stuff like colord.service and, especially, colord-sane.service are being started, for example. As far as I can tell the latter, at least, is almost completely superfluous in my case. I want sane stuff installed in case I need it at work but I don't want a scanner service started on every boot because the chances of my needing a scanner and having access to a working one are rather low. If I did need it, I would prefer to just start it as a one-off on that particular occasion.

But I'm less bothered about any particular example and more bothered that I can't figure out why stuff is happening the way it is.

systemctl list-unit-files

If the service in question is 'disabled', then it is probably started by dbus activation. You should be able to stop that from happening by masking the service. However, beware that whatever pulled it in might rely on it.

Check the journal to verify how the service was started.

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#115 2012-08-31 16:42:47

65kid
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2011-01-26
Posts: 663

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

yes, seems like colord is dbus activated (it's "static" in list-unit-files). I'd also be interested in why gtk3 depends on colord (I assume gtk3 is what dbus-activates the service?).

I masked both colord{,-sane}.service and everything still seems to work fine so far.

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#116 2012-08-31 17:50:59

ataraxia
Member
From: Pittsburgh
Registered: 2007-05-06
Posts: 1,537

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

It's cups that activates colord, and colord activates colord-sane.

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#117 2012-08-31 17:54:18

65kid
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2011-01-26
Posts: 663

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

ataraxia wrote:

It's cups that activates colord, and colord activates colord-sane.

right, that makes more sense. wink still weird that gtk3 depends on colord, but whatever.... wink

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#118 2012-08-31 18:24:18

Šaran
Member
From: Bosnia
Registered: 2011-09-03
Posts: 407

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Startup finished in 2121ms (kernel) + 5775ms (initramfs) + 4867ms (userspace) = 12764ms

 1074ms transmission.service
   395ms systemd-remount-fs.service
   381ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
   341ms systemd-modules-load.service
   203ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
   174ms systemd-udevd.service
   163ms systemd-vconsole-setup.service
   158ms var.mount
   153ms systemd-sysctl.service
   130ms systemd-logind.service
   124ms dev-hugepages.mount
    86ms net-auto-wireless.service
    84ms dev-mqueue.mount
    60ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
    37ms home.mount
    29ms ntpd.service
    11ms systemd-user-sessions.service
     6ms boot-EFI.mount
     1ms tmp.mount

i7 740qm @ 1.7 GHz + 750 GB @ 7200 rpm + 8 GB

Moved to systemd today, using e4rat since systemd readahed only slows thing down.
Not happy considering how minimal my setup is.

EDIT: I thought I was posting in Systemd boot times thread.
/facepalm

Last edited by Šaran (2012-08-31 19:23:27)

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#119 2012-08-31 18:59:48

blackout23
Member
Registered: 2011-11-16
Posts: 780

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Even with e4rat systemd is not optimal for HDDs it will thrash the disk to much, which can make it slower than traditional sequential startup. Paralellism and HDDs don't mix.

Do you need transmission.service at boot? You could save some time there when starting it with some shell script in autostart once on the desktop.

Last edited by blackout23 (2012-08-31 19:00:51)

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#120 2012-08-31 19:25:03

Šaran
Member
From: Bosnia
Registered: 2011-09-03
Posts: 407

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Yes, I need it to run as daemon.

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#121 2012-08-31 20:01:14

Dieter@be
Forum Fellow
From: Belgium
Registered: 2006-11-05
Posts: 1,958
Website

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

tomegun wrote:

find the corresponding systemd service file for every daemon in your daemons array and enable it using "systemctl enable <daemon>.service".

what's the best way to do this?

[root@dieter-t420s ~]# systemctl enable org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.service
Operation failed: No such file or directory
[root@dieter-t420s ~]# systemctl enable /usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.service
ln -s '/usr/share/dbus-1/system-services/org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.service' '/etc/systemd/system/org.freedesktop.NetworkManager.service'
The unit files have no [Install] section. They are not meant to be enabled using systemctl.
[root@dieter-t420s ~]# systemctl enable /usr/lib/systemd/system/networkmanager.service
Operation failed: Too many levels of symbolic links
[root@dieter-t420s ~]# locate -r 'networkmanager.*service'
/usr/lib/systemd/system/networkmanager.service
[root@dieter-t420s ~]# systemctl enable /usr/lib/systemd/system/networkmanager.service
Operation failed: Too many levels of symbolic links
[root@dieter-t420s ~]# systemctl enable networkmanager.service
Operation failed: No such file or directory
[root@dieter-t420s ~]# systemctl enable networkmanager
Operation failed: Invalid argument

mad mad


EDIT: I can answer my own question: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Da … of_Daemons

Last edited by Dieter@be (2012-08-31 20:05:23)


< Daenyth> and he works prolifically
4 8 15 16 23 42

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#122 2012-08-31 20:05:38

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

Have you tried using tab completion? systemctl enable <tab>

Or maybe something like "systemctl list-units --all | grep .service".

edit: too late

Last edited by anonymous_user (2012-08-31 20:06:08)

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#123 2012-08-31 20:14:00

Dieter@be
Forum Fellow
From: Belgium
Registered: 2006-11-05
Posts: 1,958
Website

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

anonymous_user wrote:

Have you tried using tab completion? systemctl enable <tab>

[root@dieter-t420s ~]# systemctl enable Failed to get unit file list: No such file or directory
Failed to get unit file list: No such file or directory
Failed to get unit file list: No such file or directory
Failed to get unit file list: No such file or directory
anonymous_user wrote:

Or maybe something like "systemctl list-units --all | grep .service".

[root@dieter-t420s ~]# systemctl list-units --all | grep .service
Failed to get D-Bus connection: No connection to service manager.

< Daenyth> and he works prolifically
4 8 15 16 23 42

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#124 2012-08-31 20:25:39

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

I think you have to actually boot with systemd before trying those commands.

Last edited by anonymous_user (2012-08-31 20:25:59)

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#125 2012-08-31 20:35:34

tomegun
Developer
From: France
Registered: 2010-05-28
Posts: 661

Re: Archlinux is moving to systemd

anonymous_user wrote:

I think you have to actually boot with systemd before trying those commands.

That's correct. And a bug i think. Also use list-unit-files, not list-units (once the bug is fixed).

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