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#76 2005-09-24 20:22:26

dauphin
Member
From: Scotland
Registered: 2003-07-09
Posts: 188

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

I think it is definitely a good idea to try upgrading everything except the kernel. It is my understanding that udev is not compulsory until 2.6.13.
If you can reboot OK under 2.6.10 and want to try a later kernel, why not try one of the alternative kernel packages such as kernel26mm - that would allow you to test a later version of the kernel without overwriting 2.6.10, so that it would be easier for you to revert to that version if the new kernel failed to boot.

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#77 2005-09-25 00:12:53

lilsirecho
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Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Dauphin;

Re-installed in two HDD's and tried the  pacman -R grub in each.  One HDD seems to be intermittent and failed reboot after upgrade.

The other drive upon upgrade gave the failure to log-in with the keyboard strokes repeating.

So I re-installed into that HDD the base pkgs, pacman -Sy pacman, blacklisted shpchp, downloaded xorg, and downloaded Kde.( long time to download).

I am able to reboot into the system at this time while in 2.6.10.

My difficulties started with an upgrade try to 2.6.12.2 with the result listed in the opening posts of this thread.

I now have to figure out how to enable xorg again!!!  It has been a good long time since I did that last time.  It is always a pain to set up.

Don't have a clue as to why I can't upgrade since the -Syu is supposed to solve the upgrade dependencies and load it in.

Gotta check on wiki for xorg.


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#78 2005-09-25 03:05:17

lilsirecho
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Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

System now up in Kde, kernel 2.6.10.

Tried vmlinuz root=/dev/discs/disc0/part3...system booted OK .. but there was no internet access.  During boot-up a large number of errors were reported concerning loading modules but went by so fast can't say much about them.

Bookmarks in Konqueror did not respond..no internet.

Reboot in HDD mode restored internet .  So the subject of this thread still is not satisfied..Is there supposed to be internet access in arch CD assisted boot-up?  Is it available in chroot?

When is a zero always equal to a one?


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#79 2005-09-25 06:02:22

Snowman
Developer/Forum Fellow
From: Montreal, Canada
Registered: 2004-08-20
Posts: 5,212

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

For the modules problem, are you using hotplug? If so, you can restart it once you're logged in with:
/etc/rd.d/hotplug restart
You'll be able to see the errors, then.  Maybe your network module hasn't been loaded.

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#80 2005-09-25 15:26:57

lilsirecho
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Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Snowman;

Thanks for the snowflake.

I have an observation regarding this item.  I had advice to run /etc/rd.d/network start.  This doesn't cut it.

Probably due to changes in the arch system, the hotplug solution may do the job.

However, the present situation in my system is it has hwd installed to aid in getting the system started in xorg and Kde. 

Perhaps both hwd and hotplug will coexist after the initial install is completed and it may work.

I will give it a try.


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#81 2005-09-25 16:21:26

dauphin
Member
From: Scotland
Registered: 2003-07-09
Posts: 188

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

The reason why the network does not run after booting off the Arch CD into your installed system is certainly that the modules have not been loaded.  I suspect that restarting hotplug will just give you the same error messages as would have appeared during the boot process because hotplug is not finding the correct version of the modules to match the running kernel (which is the kernel on the CD).  If you can identify the location of the modules which match the CD kernel version, I imagine you could load them using insmod, but I have a feeling that even in a brand new installation, the installed kernel is different from the kernel on the CD so you may not find the correct module versions on your hard drive at all.

Perhaps it is possible to extract the module packages contained on the CD and then use insmod to load the ones you need, but I have not tried this.

Regarding network access in the chroot environment, this should be available if it was available in the "host" system from which you chrooted.  So if you have booted from the Arch CD, you would have to set up the network first  - probably by running that part of /arch/setup, after which you can try pinging your ISP's nameserver to verify that there is internet access.  Then you should still have that access available after you do the chroot into the installed system.

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#82 2005-09-25 17:06:18

lilsirecho
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Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Dauphin;

Interesting point about the modules.

What you describe is the situation that is presented by the install of additional material after the initial archCD install of the same kernel prevents the install of the modules initially installed via the archCD install process.

I have attempted , during the arch install process from the CD, to access the config section of the install program to make a change due to a typo.  When I try this, the config file is empty.

Your assessment of the hotplug situation makes sense as well since the module errors appear in great numbers.

I believe I was able to chroot in Knoppix and obtain internet access but I believe I was chrooting into a Knoppix kernel 2.6.11 since I ran uname-r and received that reply.  Of course, this reply may be correct in any case regardless of the repair being attempted since the command would be interpreted as requesting the OS kernel.

I surmise from your remarks that the archCD repair procedure may be unuseable for all repair functions and that perhaps one should use the archie LiveCD or Knoppix LiveCD/DVD.

I have Knoppix LiveDVD running nicely with 9GB of pgms.

Frustration rules!!!!!


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#83 2005-09-25 17:54:48

dauphin
Member
From: Scotland
Registered: 2003-07-09
Posts: 188

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

I have just experimented with gaining internet access in a chroot environment after booting with the Arch CD, and I found it worked fine.

Booted from the CD to command prompt.
Entered /arch/setup; selected ftp installation rather than cd (I wonder if this is where you have been going wrong?)
Selecting ftp gives access to the option to configure the network, and I went through that procedure
Opened a new console with Alt-F2
Tested network access by successfully pinging my ISP's nameserver
Mounted my existing Arch partition and chrooted into it.
Successfully ran pacman -Syu

Note that when you enter a chroot environment you change the root of the filesystem but you do not change the running kernel.  So when you run uname -a, you are given the kernel version from which you booted, which may or may not be the same as the kernel of the installed system.  Uname -a will give you the same output whether you run it before chrooting or afterwards!

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#84 2005-09-25 18:42:04

lilsirecho
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Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

I have not seen instructions to select ftp anywhere as regards arch CD install since it is install from CD which was downloaded after long download time.

I appreciate that you were able to do the things I was unable to do but I find it frustrating when procedures outlined don't work.  Sometimes, it is best not to recall how you did it last time because the system is not the same anymore!!!

If ftp must be selected, such instruction should be made mandatory in the archCD when used for repair.

Should I not understand your comments, please correct me.

Your advice to select ftp is the first such statement regarding the subject of internet access from chroot that I have encountered.


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#85 2005-09-25 19:03:18

dtw
Forum Fellow
From: UK
Registered: 2004-08-03
Posts: 4,436
Website

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

I have read this whole thread and two things jump out at me:

a) what filesystem are you using on /dev/hda3
b) your hardisk sounds screwed up around the /dev/hda3 area

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#86 2005-09-25 19:28:48

dauphin
Member
From: Scotland
Registered: 2003-07-09
Posts: 188

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Lilsirecho,
In reply to your comments, I am not sure I follow your meaning.  Are you saying that there is not an ftp option on the full install CD (I am using the Arch 0.7 base iso) or simply that there should be a direction that this option should be selected if the CD is being used for repair purposes?  As my network is configured manually, it was obvious when I booted from the cd that the network could not have been activated as I was not asked for any settings.  I reasoned that if an ftp install was being offered, it must make provision to configure the network, so it seemed logical to try that option.
I haven't checked whether there is any documentation on using the cd for repair purposes, but I would agree that the instructions which appear when you run the cd could usefully be expanded to give a hint as to how to set up networking.  Maybe you want to report that as a bug.

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#87 2005-09-26 01:54:03

lilsirecho
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Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Dauphin;

Thanks for the comments regarding the ftp install.

If, as was the case, the installCD could only reach chroot format and not boot into the failed system, don't see a solution.

Dibblethewrecker;

The system in use at this moment is base arch install from CD using the automatic feature of the CD.  Lilo used as bootloader and fiunctioned correctly.  Kernel is 2.6.10 and is working fine.  Have upgraded pacman, installed xorg and Kde, inserted kdm in daemons and have booted to kde desktop at present.  Therefore, the /hda3 filesystem is ext3 as delineated in the arch install CD automatic install.

If the HDD were bad I wouldn't be up and running.  I have internet and pacman works fine.

I cannot upgrade to 2.6.12.2 kernel however.  It fails every time I try with two different HDD.

I have mail in kde.

I require hotplug to operate my mouse but have installed hwd as well with no apparent problem.  I dislike to 45 secs it takes to boot, however.I now have two HDD operating with Kernel 2.6.10 this one is backup.

Edit:

What would happen on earth if gravity reversed?


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#88 2005-09-26 08:46:40

dauphin
Member
From: Scotland
Registered: 2003-07-09
Posts: 188

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Well, yesterday you were asking:

So the subject of this thread still is not satisfied..Is there supposed to be internet access in arch CD assisted boot-up? Is it available in chroot?

My answer is that in the first situation it is difficult (though I suspect not impossible) to get internet access - the problem is getting the right module versions loaded.  In the chroot environment, there should be no problem using the method I have described.  You do not say if you have tried this, but then as I understand it you no longer need to.  You say that you don't see it as a solution, but it seems to me that it is a pretty good solution.  It gives you full access to make any changes you need in the installed system, including network access if you need to run pacman -Syu or whatever.  If after that you prefer to do more repair work in a graphical environment, you can reboot using the CD kernel.  OK you will be missing some modules and you won't have net access, but you will already have downloaded whatever you need so this should not matter.

As I understand it, you now have a system which is working normally and is up to date with the exception of the kernel.  You have tried kernel 2.6.12.2 enough times to know that it is probably not going to work if you install it again.  Your options therefore seem to be:
1.  Leave things as they are
2.  Research why the later kernel does not work for you
3.  Experiment with a different kernel such as the mm or archck versions
4.  Try upgrading the vanilla kernel at a future date in the hope that in the meantime any bugs which impact your system will have been eradicated.

Finally, as regards hotplug, if you don't like the delay on booting, use lsmod to find out what modules hotplug has loaded, insert them manually in rc.conf, then disable hotplug.

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#89 2005-09-26 09:00:42

Mr Green
Forum Fellow
From: U.K.
Registered: 2003-12-21
Posts: 5,771

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Boot time will be reduced if you add @ to daemons in rc.conf....

#
# Daemons to start at boot-up (in this order)
#   (prefix a daemon with a ! to disable it)
#   (prefix a daemon with a @ to background it)
#

Mr Green

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#90 2005-09-26 15:06:49

lilsirecho
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Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Mr. Green;

Using the @ prefix on hotplug removes the USB mouse on boot.

Dauphin;

Probably the hotplug requirements of Udev impacts my USB mouse interface to cause the multiple keystroke action when I upgrade.  Perhaps it is a bug.

EDIT:  Too early in morning to state my case!  My keyboard generates the multiple keystrokes of course, both mouse and keyboard on USB , same cable  Sorry for the stupid statement.

How can theories be judged in a court of law?  They are just ideas!!!


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#91 2005-09-26 23:17:59

lilsirecho
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Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Entered modules in rc.conf and inserted @ on hotplug.

Booted OK with mouse intact and keyboard up and running.

Suspect that hotplug upgrade caused the inability to upgrade to 2.6.12.2 kernel.

Googling says hotplug is required for Udev.

Perhaps both module listing and hotplug can be used together and have the upgrade complete.

If mouse is lost in the @hotplug setup as has happened, Udev would likely be lost as well in the upgrade since it requires hotplug and the keyboard and mouse would not function.  Since there was an upgrade of hotplug, it is very likely that the keyboard and mouse were not enabled as a result.

Suppose Udev is established in kernel 2.6.12.2 and @hotplug created in rc.conf, it seems logical that Udev would fail since the mouse and keyboard fail in 2.6.10 when such entry is made.  Perhaps listing the modules as well will avert the hotplug situation in the upgrade except for the required hotplug in Udev.  Catch22.

This seems similar (not identical) to lilo upgrade of the lilo pkg.  It is accompanied by a request to run lilo.  Hotplug may require similar (not identical) action before assuming control since it is related to Udev, which is related to lilo, which is related to fstab which is related to pacman -S udev (not hotplug but 'hot potato".).

I could be dead wrong on this issue...just reporting the facts...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Theories are just ideas...not laws to be adjudicated in a court of law.


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#92 2005-09-27 06:17:45

dauphin
Member
From: Scotland
Registered: 2003-07-09
Posts: 188

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

I am wondering whether you have a separate /boot partition and, if so, whether it is correctly mounted.  Is /dev/hda1 meant to be your /boot partition?  If so, it should appear in fstab as /boot, not /mnt/boot.  If you use a separate /boot partition and it is not correctly mounted, you will hit problems with installing a new kernel and running /sbin/lilo cleanly.

You don't need to run the hotplug daemon if you load all necessary modules manually.  I run udev quite happily with the hotplug daemon commented out.

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#93 2005-09-27 15:25:15

lilsirecho
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Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Dauphin;

Pleased to receive a response from you again.

Since my present set-up is kernel2.6.10 which was loaded by the automatic install procedure in arch 0.7 CD, the /boot follows the devfs system and appears as follows;..../dev/discs/disc0/part1 /boot ext2 defaults 0  1......

The Udev nomenclature has not been entered.

I have both hotplug and modules loaded and can suspend hotplug if desired.

However, when upgrading to kernel 2.6.12.2, hotplug is part of the upgrade encountered in pacman -Syu.  Additionally, Udev requires hotplug enabled.

As I mentioned, I lost mouse capability which is usb controlled when I disabled hotplug ...not having modules in rc.conf for usbhid..

When I did the upgrade, the keyboard action was repeat keystrokes, which also is usb controlled.  The common denom therein is hotplug.  I had no module entry at that time for the usbhid...usbcore modules.

Indeed, not sure whether Udev would recognize the module entries in view of the upgrade of hotplug at the same upgrade time.

When I upgraded, the fstab entries were changed only by modifying the first column with Udev nomenclature.  Thus, lilo, fstab, and all other requirements for Udev were present and ready for Udev before /sbin/lilo -v was executed.  Reboot gave the keyboard failure and couldn't log-in.


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#94 2005-09-27 17:07:18

dauphin
Member
From: Scotland
Registered: 2003-07-09
Posts: 188

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Oh well, I think I am out of ideas.  Earlier in the thread I thought you had partition 1 mounted at /mnt/boot, but if that was the case then it seems to be OK now.  If you wish to experiment further why not try switching to udev whilst on the 2.6.10 kernel; it would be easier to reverse the process if you hit a problem.  You could try it with and without hotplug... or maybe you prefer to leave well alone for the time being!

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#95 2005-09-27 17:59:09

lilsirecho
Veteran
Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Alls well that ends well!!


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#96 2005-10-02 18:59:36

lilsirecho
Veteran
Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: Pacman available in archcd boot?(See last post re:arch0.7.1)

Judd reports this day that the upgrade to kernel2.6.12.2 from archCD 0.7 caused a conflict with Udevin that kernel.

The solution is included in archCD 0.7-1.Edit: Correction:archCD0.7.1

Q.E.D

R.I.P.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Asking may get you knowwhere.

What happens on earth if gravity law is reversed?  Theories can be generated on the subject, not adjudicatable in the courts, but please don't establish a law for it!!!!!  Such is the debate in Pa.


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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