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#51 2003-10-31 20:08:31

farphel
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From: New Hampshire - USA
Registered: 2003-09-18
Posts: 250
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Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Somebody else was having a similar problem.  Seems that on rare occasions, the file permissions on random files in /var/lib/pacman/local get set to world-unreadable which chokes 'pacman -Q' as a normal user.  Take a look at the offending file and set its permissions to 644 and give it another try.

Do any of the developers know why files sometimes become unreadable by the world?

TIA,
farphel


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#52 2003-10-31 20:49:17

terrapin
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From: Lockport, IL
Registered: 2003-08-06
Posts: 104

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Somebody else was having a similar problem.

That was me smile and like you suggested changing the permissions on those subdirectories corrected the problem.

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#53 2003-10-31 21:16:30

kritoke
Member
From: Texas, USA
Registered: 2003-08-01
Posts: 211
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

That worked, I had an idea that it was the permissions, I just didn't realize I had to do the entire subdirectory, I was only doing the desc file.  Apparently when I do an update of archstats, it doesn't upload my new package stats.  For instance, I have both newer versions of gdm and control center (I am using the first release from the 2.5.x series) and several other packages, and there doesn't exist anyone with that on the website.  I do think that I am still on there because there is still a person with the Athlon XP 2100+ CPU.

edit: When doing a archstats - d, it outputs this along with normal data(this part looked a little weird to have it say nothing):

Installed packages
-----------------------------------------------------------------
  - None -

Any ideas on what the cause of this is?

Kritoke


http://counter.li.org/ Registered Linux User #318963 kritoke@jabber.org

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#54 2003-10-31 21:19:40

terrapin
Member
From: Lockport, IL
Registered: 2003-08-06
Posts: 104

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Did you run "archstats -i" multiple times with an earlier version of archstats (1.3 or earlier)?

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#55 2003-10-31 21:23:42

kritoke
Member
From: Texas, USA
Registered: 2003-08-01
Posts: 211
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Did you run "archstats -i" multiple times with an earlier version of archstats (1.3 or earlier)?

Not that I know of, I just reran it now to see if that would fix anything, but it didn't, I think I am no longer being able to upload my list at all for some reason, as you can see there are 36 systems, but only a listing of 35 packages in systems.

Kritoke


http://counter.li.org/ Registered Linux User #318963 kritoke@jabber.org

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#56 2003-11-01 20:17:10

farphel
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From: New Hampshire - USA
Registered: 2003-09-18
Posts: 250
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Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

kritoke wrote:

edit: When doing a archstats - d, it outputs this along with normal data(this part looked a little weird to have it say nothing):

Installed packages
-----------------------------------------------------------------
  - None -

Any ideas on what the cause of this is?

What does your config file say for SEND_PKGS_STATS?

grep PKGS .archstats.conf

If the answer is 'No', that explains it.  You can re-run 'archstats -i' and answer 'Yes' to 'Do you want to submit a list of installed packages?'.

If your config file says 'Yes' for SEND_PKGS_STATS, then we need to debug a bit further.

HTH,
farphel


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#57 2003-11-01 21:55:01

kritoke
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From: Texas, USA
Registered: 2003-08-01
Posts: 211
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

I reinstalled arch, lol, how's that for debugging?  My system has been running kind of wacky lately, I installed arch in august, so its been a while.  Now my puter runs squeaky clean.  I think there was some type of corruption with the package database, because it was selected to submit the packages.

Kritoke


http://counter.li.org/ Registered Linux User #318963 kritoke@jabber.org

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#58 2003-11-06 22:18:29

farphel
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From: New Hampshire - USA
Registered: 2003-09-18
Posts: 250
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Hi all,

I'm almost done with 'version 2.0' of the ArchStats server.  The only real change is that it will allow users/visitors to browse individual systems (while maintaining individual privacy).

Here's a question for the developers: Is it OK with all of you if I 'borrow' the stylesheets from archlinux.org so that the ArchStats project looks more in-line with the main archlinux site?

I'd also like to make the offer that the ArchStats server code (requires PHP/MySQL) could reside on a server within the archlinux.org domain.  My feeling is that if the developers truly think this could be a useful tool, it might get more user adoption if it 'belonged' to archlinux.org rather than some user's server.  I have no problem continuing to host it where it is (I could even create 'archstats.coding-zone.com'), I'm just making the offer.

Cheers,
farphel


Follow the link below, sign up, and accept one promotional offer.  If I can get five suckers (err... friends) to do this, I'll get a free iPod.  Then you too can try to get a free iPod. Thanks! http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=11363142

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#59 2003-11-07 00:59:31

apeiro
Daddy
From: Victoria, BC, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-12
Posts: 771
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Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Sure, we can do that.  Email me and we'll get it set up.

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#60 2003-11-07 01:24:48

farphel
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From: New Hampshire - USA
Registered: 2003-09-18
Posts: 250
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Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

apeiro wrote:

Sure, we can do that.  Email me and we'll get it set up.

Great!  I'll try and finish it up by middle of next week.


Follow the link below, sign up, and accept one promotional offer.  If I can get five suckers (err... friends) to do this, I'll get a free iPod.  Then you too can try to get a free iPod. Thanks! http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=11363142

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#61 2003-11-07 10:39:49

hApy
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From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2003-04-13
Posts: 194
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

This is what I get when I try to run it --

[hapy@photism hapy]$ ./archstats -dv
Reading config file: '/home/hapy/.archstats.conf'
Collected Arch Linux version.
Collected CPU stats.
Collected memory and swap values.
Collected PCI card stats.
Collected uptime stats.
Collected kernel config options.
Collected kernel version and last compiled string.
Collected loaded kernel modules.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./archstats", line 1093, in ?
    collect_stats_and_update(STATS, CONFIG, CONFIG_PATH, dummy)
  File "./archstats", line 503, in collect_stats_and_update
    collect_system_stats(stats, config)
  File "./archstats", line 646, in collect_system_stats
    pkgs_stats(stats)
  File "./archstats", line 710, in pkgs_stats
    pkg, ver = package.split()
ValueError: unpack list of wrong size

Hapy.

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#62 2003-11-07 11:44:38

farphel
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From: New Hampshire - USA
Registered: 2003-09-18
Posts: 250
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Hi hApy,

That's a tough one.  I can walk you through some debugging steps if you're willing to help.  What is happening is that the archstats script is calling 'pacman -Q' and going through it line by line (just as if you were to type pacman -Q at your shell prompt) and trying to capture the package name and the package version.  The offending (or is it offended?) line of code is choking on an unexpected format from pacman -Q.

Try typing 'pacman -Q | more' and reviewing it.  In all cases, each line should be of the form 'pkgname pkgversion'.  IOW, there should be one space separating the name/version.  So, for example, if you had a line that was 'pkgname-pkgversion' (wth a dash); that would choke the archstats script.

If you don't want to (or don't have the time to) review your list, you can send it to me:

pacman -Q | /usr/bin/mail -s "hApy's pkg list" eric(at)coding(dash)zone(dot)com

Thanks for helping find bugs!
farphel


Follow the link below, sign up, and accept one promotional offer.  If I can get five suckers (err... friends) to do this, I'll get a free iPod.  Then you too can try to get a free iPod. Thanks! http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=11363142

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#63 2003-11-08 01:02:41

hApy
Member
From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2003-04-13
Posts: 194
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

ok had a chance to do a bit of debugging.. it seems my

pacman -Q

looks like this:

[hapy@photism hapy]$ pacman -Q | more

a52dec 0.7.4-1
alsa-driver 0.9.8-1

and I added a small "print package" before it is split and it seems to be choking on the blank line.

When other people run pacman -Q do they get a leading blank line?

Have I somehow messed up my pacman? smile

Should be easy to rectify -- just add a check and skip blank lines.
That is, if my assumption is correct.

Hapy.

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#64 2003-11-08 01:11:37

hApy
Member
From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2003-04-13
Posts: 194
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

yeah that was the problem here's what I did to fix it

        while package:
                if package.strip()!='':
                        pkg, ver = package.split()
                        name = "-".join((pkg,ver.strip()))
                        stats['PKGS'][name] = 1
                package = pkgs.readline()

although I would still like to know how I managed to get a weird space character in there.. smile

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#65 2003-11-08 01:34:32

farphel
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From: New Hampshire - USA
Registered: 2003-09-18
Posts: 250
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Yup, looks like that blank line is choking it.

I added a bit more error checking to the client; now at v1.5.  The server has been updated accordingly.

Regarding the blank line on your package list, I haven't a clue.  I have four systems running Arch and I have't noticed that before.  Perhaps one of the developers could offer an explanation?

Thanks for the help, hApy!


Follow the link below, sign up, and accept one promotional offer.  If I can get five suckers (err... friends) to do this, I'll get a free iPod.  Then you too can try to get a free iPod. Thanks! http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=11363142

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#66 2003-11-15 01:10:21

farphel
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From: New Hampshire - USA
Registered: 2003-09-18
Posts: 250
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Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Hi Archers,

Ok, I've finished up with version 2.0 (both client and server).  The really big changes are on the server.  It now looks like it's part of archlinux.org and visitors can now anonymously 'browse' registered systems.

The primary page (for now) is http://www.coding-zone.com/archstats.phtml.  Click the 'view stats' link at near the top of the page to get to the goodies.  Under the stats pages, there is a new 'Systems' button that lists all registered systems.  You can sort by using the column headers and 'select' a specific system by clicking on its 'system reference' link.  Once selected, the other buttons (General,Processors,etc) let you view the respective information for that selected system.  There is a previous/next system button too that let's you 'walk' through each system.

Hope you like it.  Suggestions/comments/etc are most welcome!

P.S.  Make sure to download the new archstats v2.0 client too if you are still willing to help test.

Cheers,
farphel


Follow the link below, sign up, and accept one promotional offer.  If I can get five suckers (err... friends) to do this, I'll get a free iPod.  Then you too can try to get a free iPod. Thanks! http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=11363142

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#67 2003-12-29 05:58:47

rasat
Forum Fellow
From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

farphel wrote:

Hope you like it.  Suggestions/comments/etc are most welcome!

I am regularly checking the ArchStats website to have an idea about other Archers. My interest is to find new projects what could be helpful for the users.

To have a more accurate overall picture of AL usage, I suggest to add few average calculations (lowest and highest is misleading if only one user scores the high or low number).
http://www.coding-zone.com/archstats.phtml?viewstats=y

<b>Suggestion:</b>
1. Average system memory.
2. Average packages installed on a system.

<b>Question:</b>
How to get more Archers to upload their information?

PS.
Seeing the condition of the installed packages, also few members on this forum have been asking, I have in mind to make one "Package Sweeper" program.
http://www.amlug.net/new-projects/forum … owtopic=27

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#68 2003-12-29 12:53:27

farphel
Forum Fellow
From: New Hampshire - USA
Registered: 2003-09-18
Posts: 250
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Hi rasat,

Sure, I can add some averages.

Regarding how to get more Archers to participate - hopefully that will be addressed shortly.  Judd is willing to set up a new virtual host 'stats.archlinux.org' so that it will become an official Arch project.  I'm going to suggest he modify the "Install HOWTO" on the main page, that as a final step, users can install the archstats client and help Arch identify hardware/software of its users.

I've also re-written the archstats client in C so that users do not need to install extra packages just to participate (such as python ...which requires Tk and consequently X... sorry sidetracked on my latest rant sad).

Anyway, I think the new site will be up in the next few weeks.

farphel


Follow the link below, sign up, and accept one promotional offer.  If I can get five suckers (err... friends) to do this, I'll get a free iPod.  Then you too can try to get a free iPod. Thanks! http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=11363142

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#69 2003-12-29 16:11:57

Guest
Guest

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

having this project hosted or anyway associated with the main page won't do much, i think for getting people to use archstats. i absolutely dislike the idea of some applicaton probing my system and reporting the results to some server.

basing projects on stats that do not represent a clear majority is a waste of time. besides how ould you even know that the numbers reported are even representative of the true number of full time arch users.

no to be mean i have yet to see a project that would actually appeal to me. archstats, livecds, hwd, whatever none of it. not even TUR packages have drawn my interest.

#70 2003-12-30 05:27:06

rasat
Forum Fellow
From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Anonymous wrote:

...basing projects on stats that do not represent a clear majority is a waste of time. besides how ould you even know that the numbers reported are even representative of the true number of full time arch users.

no to be mean i have yet to see a project that would actually appeal to me. archstats, livecds, hwd, whatever none of it. not even TUR packages have drawn my interest.

Same as Arch Linux was not created at first place to impress the majority of world Linux community, but in Jude Vinet's words "to give a little something back to the free software community, since I've taken so much" (quoted from AL's documentation), the same spirit is behind my projects and likely others' as well.

In general, to impress the "majority" is not the aim of Linux (maybe because its difficult to know what the majority wants). But to contribute ideas and projects we think could be useful for the public where the "minority" will like the idea and may improve the work or copy some parts. The end result in this type of process few "majority" appealing projects are evolving.

In my opinion, its not the final output (project) what is counted in Arch Linux (if AL's  majority accepts this Linux type of development process) but the voluntary effort to contribute without expecting any prise and glory smile.

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#71 2003-12-30 13:53:16

terrapin
Member
From: Lockport, IL
Registered: 2003-08-06
Posts: 104

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

i absolutely dislike the idea of some applicaton probing my system and reporting the results to some server.

I agree with you that security should be everyone's concern. But just because an application probes your system and reports what it finds to a server doesn't mean it's bad. Farphel has taken a lot of security precautions to make Archers feel safe about using archstats. He posts both the source code for the client and server applications and also posts the md5 sums of the applications.

It's okay if you don't want to participate in the project, that's your right, but please don't infer that archstats has an malicious agenda.

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#72 2003-12-30 15:24:02

Guest
Guest

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

the results are malicious. stats in this case do not represent anywhere near the majority of arch users. so trying to convince developers to take a certain approach based on them could be force feeding the majority of arch users something they don't want.

Same as Arch Linux was not created at first place to impress the majority of world Linux community, but in Jude Vinet's words "to give a little something back to the free software community, since I've taken so much" (quoted from AL's documentation), the same spirit is behind my projects and likely others' as well.

blah blah blah blah. i paid my "dues" to the arch linux community so don't infer that i haven't. i didn't say your projects were bad just not useful to me.

In general, to impress the "majority" is not the aim of Linux (maybe because its difficult to know what the majority wants). But to contribute ideas and projects we think could be useful for the public where the "minority" will like the idea and may improve the work or copy some parts. The end result in this type of process few "majority" appealing projects are evolving.

so you profess to know exactly what the linux community is all about and besides what does this have to do with my comments, besides using the word majority in a derogatory manner? there are lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of "majority" programs still evolving. you may not see the changes but like evolution the majority of it is unseen....or did you not know this.

as well you infer that i have not given any time or ideas for the betterment of arch i have. i took LOTS of hits here defending what i thought arch was "aiming" to do. sometimes i didn't realise i was defending or attacking old passe ideas and took my hits for it. many other times i was just downright stomped into oblivion.

i took devils advocate positions for or against certain descisions all with the end user and community in mind. i felt like i was spitting in the wind alot of the times in these cases too both from the developers and from users. why did i take these positions then? well i have work or been in certain situations in my life where similar moves or descisions were made or not made that cost good people and workers their respect and sanity or diluted the product. i could not sit idly around and watch this happen in the arch community.

of course i knew this was a bad descision because alot of the open source community is very hostile, selfish, and bitter. they preach openess and sharing of ideas while acting in a facist manner. they get attached to their projects....become their projects....and when it come time to step outside their project to look at it in a critical objective manner it just doesn't happen.

i am not active in the arch community very much anymore because i was sick of being viewed as the villian. i was sick of the continuing modulization of the developers whining of the community for arch to become what its documantation states it does not want to be or trying to force their ideal on the developers. i got sick of sticking my neck out for stated arch goals/ideals only to have knives stuck in me from either side.

i got praise for some of my work, which i appreciate (though unnecessary), but it took way more than my share of shots. shots that for one reason or another were often personal or inferred (people oft said i was reading too much into certain responses but i know grey from black and white).

nope too many times i have seen the well intended stat used to manipulate descisions in a bad way. besides why comment that linux is not aiming for the majority, deride the majority and make yourself out to be a do-gooder and then back a project whose goals is to be a major influencing factor for the direction of the community? bah it all party politics.

archstats could be a good project indeed IF it actually reporesented the arch community. you should know that to gain representative stats you do not require a majority necessarily....but this requires you to have a very good idea of the size of your population. we don't know this and i cannot see how arch developers and archstats developers could get such numbers. distros are trendy things and users can come and go like the seasons the population numbers can vary widely day to day. i trust that the developers of arch can take arch in the "right" direction without basing their descisions on stats. in many cases you do not need stats to make the needed evolutions in a distro.

nope stats used for anything other than interesting facts or capturing a populations opinion at a specific point in history. is just wrong. stats in this case are just too subjective and arch definitely tries to to the whole more than the parts. i don't want to see arch become focussed in to becoming a single use distro (ie focusing on just becoming a networking distro, or a multimedia distro).

#73 2003-12-30 16:10:47

Jagged
Member
From: Blacksburg, VA
Registered: 2003-07-18
Posts: 153

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

slightly off-kilter here, but a course in elementary statistics will yield formulas to calculate result from a given query (like in political polls, they will poll only 200 people, but extrapolate that to the whole population based on the results) of course this incurs error (which is why at the bottom of these polls you see like +/- 5%.... which makes most political polls useless because their margins are narrow).  But nevertheless, my point is there is a way to derive statistics for the whole population based on a percentage of the population, but not without generating a margin of error.

That being said, now it's time for my personal opinion:
If things i like start getting removed, I will make my own packages and make them available for other users.  If creeping features start popping up, I will do my best to remove them, then make available the revised set or method for removing the 'features'.  That's the neat thing about arch, you can actually do this without causing a major headache (thanks to the way pacman and ABS integrate with each other).  Sometimes when I'm having issues with my hard drives playing nice with the arch installer I consider switching back to gentoo, but then... gentoo can't do for me what arch does.  The thing that makes arch great is the base package set when you install.  Thats all it is, basic linux.  From there you can install whatever you want, you're not forced to do anything.  If arch ever takes a turn for the worse, I'll just take the core tools and create something I like better.  Not everyone is capable of doing this, nor has the patience to deal with it.

And time for some prophecy:
With the current track and what seems to be a misunderstanding of the mission in parts by almost everyone (ask anyone what the purpose and goal of arch is, you'll get all different answers); and i know for a fact my thoughts of archlinux isn't exactly what everyone else thinks.  But nevertheless, I seriously think that this project is going to blow up in a few faces sometime within the next year.  What it will take in my opinion is a re-evaluation.  Arch is quickly migrating from the very small user base it used to be.  If you sit in the IRC channel, we see a few people every day trying to install archlinux.  The tools for archlinux are becoming more mature as well.  Unless some users and developers sit down and have a mature, respectful discussion to sort out the future, I can see this great project just becoming one hell of a mess.


Nkawtg...n!

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#74 2003-12-30 17:11:48

rasat
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From: Finland, working in Romania
Registered: 2002-12-27
Posts: 2,176
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Anonymous wrote:

But to contribute ideas and projects we think could be useful for the public where the "minority" will like the idea and may improve the work or copy some parts. The end result in this type of process few "majority" appealing projects are evolving.

.

Oops!! I stated wrongly. It suppose to say: "The end result in this type of process "majority" appealing projects are evolving" ..... the word "few" was misleading the subject. Sorry for my Finnish-English. I agree lots of "majority" programs still evolving.

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#75 2003-12-30 18:47:16

farphel
Forum Fellow
From: New Hampshire - USA
Registered: 2003-09-18
Posts: 250
Website

Re: ArchStats: Beta testers wanted

Anonymous wrote:

nope stats used for anything other than interesting facts or capturing a populations opinion at a specific point in history. is just wrong. stats in this case are just too subjective and arch definitely tries to to the whole more than the parts.

I "goofed" in my original postings describing how I thought the stats could be used when I suggested they could be used to remove unused packages.  A better (and probably the only) use would be for trying to identify which packages should be included on the install CD(s).  If AL grows to the point where there are mutliple CD(s), then the stats could be used to determine which CD a package gets to live on.

I also see the hardware stats as being useful for the developers when it comes time to compile kernel packages.  They could be used to determine which features are compiled in versus module support.

Regarding the "legitimacy" of the stats representing the community, hopefully with the fact that the stats are timestamped and that updates are counted, and when a system was registered, you can start to get a sense of what data can be considered representative and which data can be tossed.  I'm NOT arguing with you about the data being accurate for the entire community.  It is only good/useable for the systems that participate.
Although I think Jagged has a good point about extrapolating the stats.

Do you have any suggestions on how to improve the reliability of the stats, or do you feel that they should be scrapped altogether?

On a separate note:  It's good to see you posting again, "Guest" wink I've always appreciated your posts and was very sorry to see you leave.  You are a very knowledgable person (except for networking stuff wink) and I have always valued your opinions, even concerning archstats!  I hope you keep posting!


Follow the link below, sign up, and accept one promotional offer.  If I can get five suckers (err... friends) to do this, I'll get a free iPod.  Then you too can try to get a free iPod. Thanks! http://www.freeiPods.com/?r=11363142

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