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#1 2012-09-25 02:29:30

trizcuit
Member
Registered: 2012-09-25
Posts: 17

[SOLVED] Installing Arch

Hey guys got curious the past couple of days and heard about Arch so I decided to give it a shot. The problem I have is my partitions. HP loaded it with stupid partitions it seems like so I moved my recovery to a usb so that cleared up one primary partition I can use. My question is can I use the primary partition for /root or /home when setting the partitions in cfdisk and set /boot /home or /root as a logical partition? Are there any disadvantages or will this not work at all?

Thanks smile

Last edited by trizcuit (2012-10-01 02:16:13)

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#2 2012-09-25 02:32:26

WonderWoofy
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From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

If you only have one primary left, and you use it for /root or /home, then you have no more.  You need to use an extended partition spanning the remaining part of your drive and fill it with logical partitions.

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#3 2012-09-25 02:35:29

2ManyDogs
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Registered: 2012-01-15
Posts: 1,683

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

trizcuit, welcome to Arch.

Please show us all the partitions you have now, and what they are being used for. Then we might be able to give you some useful advice.

And you might want to do a little reading. Here is a good place to start: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Partitioning

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-09-25 02:37:21)

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#4 2012-09-25 02:49:04

trizcuit
Member
Registered: 2012-09-25
Posts: 17

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

Hey thanks for the welcome! The list below is my current partitions

sda1 system windows 7
sda2 is my c drive
sda4 is a hp_tools partition

Sda3 was a recovery partition that I moved to a USB. I'm in cfdisk atm and have 100gb in free space. Just need some guidance on this.

Any help is welcomed and very appreciated :-)


Edit: I made a 20gb root folder that was for boot that set it as sda3 but the remaining space said unusable.

Last edited by trizcuit (2012-09-25 02:56:48)

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#5 2012-09-25 03:02:50

2ManyDogs
Member
Registered: 2012-01-15
Posts: 1,683

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, but you should really read the topic I linked and learn a little more about partitioning before you go messing with cfdisk. And WonderWoofy is right -- you can't make more than four primary parititons, so you will need to create an extended partition and use it for the rest of your space, unless you want your entire Arch system on one primary partition (which is OK, but may not be optimal). Read the wiki topic and come back with more specific questions.

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2012-09-25 03:07:19)

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#6 2012-09-25 03:18:33

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,838

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

2ManyDogs wrote:

<snip>read the topic I linked and learn a little more about partitioning</snip>

OP, please do this before replying any further.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#7 2012-09-25 07:32:25

DSpider
Member
From: Romania
Registered: 2009-08-23
Posts: 2,273

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

2ManyDogs wrote:

...unless you want your entire Arch system on one primary partition (which is OK, but may not be optimal).

Optimal? Why wouldn't it be optimal? I have this setup for almost 4 years now. Why complicate things with separate boot and home partitions? There are several topics on this forum already about partitioning schemes, not to mention the Partitioning wiki article. IMO, you only need (need is a strong word; more like recommended) a separate boot partition if you have more than two operating systems on your computer. Fortunately, with VirtualBox, you would only need two, tops (Arch and maybe Windows, for gaming).

Not optimal maybe if you have a bigger root partition (10 GB, maybe 15 GB is fine) and you have a HDD, since the read head would travel too much. In that situation it could help separating home and keeping the root partition smaller. Doesn't apply to SSDs, though.


"How to Succeed with Linux"

I have made a personal commitment not to reply in topics that start with a lowercase letter. Proper grammar and punctuation is a sign of respect, and if you do not show any, you will NOT receive any help (at least not from me).

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#8 2012-09-25 08:49:26

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,838

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

DSpider wrote:
2ManyDogs wrote:

...unless you want your entire Arch system on one primary partition (which is OK, but may not be optimal).

Optimal? Why wouldn't it be optimal?

There's multiple reasons to separate the partitions. Mine is to have /home separate so that reinstalling the system is easier. The wiki article you linked does explain things quite well.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#9 2012-09-25 09:02:43

mzneverdies
Member
Registered: 2012-02-04
Posts: 147

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

ngoonee wrote:

Mine is to have /home separate so that reinstalling the system is easier.

I agree, having a separate /home helps when reinstall time comes. But, from a common user perspective, the point of switching to linux is to avoid virus, formating and reinstalling. Yes, is a good practice to have separate partitions, usually makes you read more documentation, and that's always good. But I've been usin linux for 15years now, and for the last couple of years, I decided to not separate my partitions, since I do not reinstall my system all the time. Maybe once every 4 years. And it's a home desktop, yes, it's unconfortable to reconfigure everything if something breaks (not usually), but is not a mayor issue.

So, for not scaring beginners, using the same partition for boot/home/root, is just fine.

My opinion smile

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#10 2012-09-25 10:19:50

DSpider
Member
From: Romania
Registered: 2009-08-23
Posts: 2,273

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

Exactly. Reinstalling doesn't occur that often, and copy-pasting the dot files from your user dir is not that difficult. Reinstalling probably means that you want to start fresh anyway, so... Meh.

Some people like to store data on the home partition (Music, Video, "My Documents" sort of thing). I like to keep my data separate from settings, so having the home folder on the root partition makes more sense to me. That's the beauty of Linux, I guess. Choice. If you want a separate partition for /boot, /home, /var, /usr and /tmp, go ahead. It's your system. There are benefits and drawbacks. The biggest drawback for me was that they show up in Nautilus and other file managers (in Dolphin you can hide the ones you don't like seeing).


"How to Succeed with Linux"

I have made a personal commitment not to reply in topics that start with a lowercase letter. Proper grammar and punctuation is a sign of respect, and if you do not show any, you will NOT receive any help (at least not from me).

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#11 2012-09-25 14:14:51

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

Even though I do separate my partitions out (I have an SSD so latency is not an issue), I have found that all I need to do is set up my computer to rsync my config files to a dropbox folder.  Then I just have to remember to run dropbox every once in a while.  I don't run it all the time because I rarely use it for anything.  I figure having to revert back to a couple day old config files in a worst case is completely acceptable.


Edit: Oh yeah, and I keep all large files like media and whatnot on a separate drive anyway to save real estate on my ssd.  Which leaves me with 30 GB on unused ssd space that I am still trying to figure out what to do with.

Last edited by WonderWoofy (2012-09-25 14:16:02)

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#12 2012-09-25 15:20:20

luvfree
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 80

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

Using a single partiotion is optimal for performance and the smaller it is the better.
I've been using linux this way for 11 years now and it works great... K.I.S.S...
In fact it was the default for a very long time and still is for some systems.
The largest any of my installed systems ever got was 12 GB (RHEL with full gnome, full kde, kitchen sink)
so setting up a system using over 20GB is just a waste for me and extra work for my system.
Currently using Arch on a single 20GB partition and it's BLAZING fast. (using jfs by the way)
I've tried using every patition table with every filesystem you can imagine but none works beter than this.


Currently triple booting Arch Linux, Sabayon 10, and Ubuntu 12.04 from scratch...

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#13 2012-09-25 16:40:34

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,010

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

luvfree wrote:

Using a single partiotion is optimal for performance and the smaller it is the better.
I've been using linux this way for 11 years now and it works great... K.I.S.S...
In fact it was the default for a very long time and still is for some systems.
The largest any of my installed systems ever got was 12 GB (RHEL with full gnome, full kde, kitchen sink)
so setting up a system using over 20GB is just a waste for me and extra work for my system.
Currently using Arch on a single 20GB partition and it's BLAZING fast. (using jfs by the way)
I've tried using every patition table with every filesystem you can imagine but none works beter than this.

/usr is the biggest partition by far.
How's ubuntu holding up for you?  It doesn't usually run with anything less than about 15GB.
Windows also runs on one big partition, it likes to require taking up the whole hard drive.  I find I have much more disk space without sharing it windows when I don't need it. 
JFS is a high performance filesystem.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#14 2012-09-25 17:48:55

luvfree
Member
Registered: 2012-08-29
Posts: 80

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

nomorewindows wrote:
luvfree wrote:

Using a single partiotion is optimal for performance and the smaller it is the better.
I've been using linux this way for 11 years now and it works great... K.I.S.S...
In fact it was the default for a very long time and still is for some systems.
The largest any of my installed systems ever got was 12 GB (RHEL with full gnome, full kde, kitchen sink)
so setting up a system using over 20GB is just a waste for me and extra work for my system.
Currently using Arch on a single 20GB partition and it's BLAZING fast. (using jfs by the way)
I've tried using every patition table with every filesystem you can imagine but none works beter than this.

/usr is the biggest partition by far.
How's ubuntu holding up for you?  It doesn't usually run with anything less than about 15GB.
Windows also runs on one big partition, it likes to require taking up the whole hard drive.  I find I have much more disk space without sharing it windows when I don't need it. 
JFS is a high performance filesystem.

15 GB... 0.0
That's totally unnecessary.
Ubuntu works great and is using about the same space as my Arch is. (right around 2GB with xfce4 and compiz)
I install using the mini (or net) install ISO and select expert install from the advanced options menu.
This way I can choose which modules to load and which kernel I want to use.
Just follow the installer up to the "install additional software" step and skip it.
The next step is "install the grub bootloader" which I do but is not necessary if you want to manually edit your current grub by hand.
This gives you a core install just like Arch does and then you can build it the way you want. (why my sig says Ubuntu from scratch)
I install X and a base xfce4 to begin with (under 2GB at this point) and build it from there.
I've tried my Arch install with all available filesystems except btrfs and yes jfs is the best by far.
Maybe someday I'll try the btrfs once it becomes a bit more mainstream but I won't touch my current install.
IT"S THAT GOOD...!!!

Last edited by luvfree (2012-09-25 18:24:00)


Currently triple booting Arch Linux, Sabayon 10, and Ubuntu 12.04 from scratch...

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#15 2012-09-25 19:46:22

satanselbow
Member
Registered: 2011-06-15
Posts: 532

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

Hey it's Linux - install it how you want... when you want.

As for reinstalling - I did that just the other day to have a crack at the "new" install routine with a native systemd. IMHO it (installation) is now a much faster, smoother and consistent than ever before.

As far as partition schemes goes... who cares - a quick tweak of fstab and you can turn it on it's head anyway :shrug:

Last edited by satanselbow (2012-09-25 19:47:52)

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#16 2012-09-26 03:30:44

bsilbaugh
Member
From: Maryland, USA
Registered: 2011-11-15
Posts: 141

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

FYI: If the OP has a modern EFI/UEFI system, which uses GPT, then there is no limit to the number of "primary" partitions. (But, yes, the "old" BIOS systems do limit the maximum number of logical partitions to 4.)

EDIT: Added link to ArchWiki UEFI page.

Last edited by bsilbaugh (2012-09-26 03:31:52)


- Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. -- Mark Twain
- There's a remedy for everything but death. -- The wise fool, Sancho Panza
- The purpose of a system is what it does. -- Anthony Stafford Beer

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#17 2012-09-26 04:05:26

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

I thought that the default GPT limit was set to 128 (which I guess is pretty much unlimited for most common desktop uses).  But I am fairly certain that I have read that this limit is only set by how much space is defaulted to the parition table.  So if you are willing to reserve more space for a larger partition table, a higher limit can be set.

If this is wrong, please correct me because this is coming from memory.

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#18 2012-09-26 07:14:22

DSpider
Member
From: Romania
Registered: 2009-08-23
Posts: 2,273

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GP … ges_of_GPT

3. Arbitrary number of partitions - depends on space allocated for the partition table - No need for extended and logical partitions. By default the GPT table contains space for defining 128 partitions. However if the user wants to define more partitions, he/she can allocate more space to the partition table (currently only gdisk is known to support this feature).


"How to Succeed with Linux"

I have made a personal commitment not to reply in topics that start with a lowercase letter. Proper grammar and punctuation is a sign of respect, and if you do not show any, you will NOT receive any help (at least not from me).

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#19 2012-09-27 21:42:05

trizcuit
Member
Registered: 2012-09-25
Posts: 17

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

Thanks the tons of input guys.Got over this problem guess not sleeping for days will do that to you :-). Just have trouble with my bootloader now. I was looking at the grub2 page from archwiki for hours and tried every known fix for it off google still no dice.

/sbin/grub-setup: warn: Embedding is not possible. GRUB can only be installed in this setup by using blocklists. 
However, blocklists are UNRELIABLE and their use is discouraged.

Its very similar to that. I try to install grub to /dev/sda but it throws the error above. I try to force it and it doesn't want to work properly. Not sure what the problem is there been trying to mess with it for a little bit now.

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#20 2012-09-27 22:41:48

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,662

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

Why doesn't pkgfile seem to have heard of grub-setup?

[This was originally a rather confused question about whether Arch actually had grub-setup at all as I'd never heard of it and pkgfile also disowns it. However, I now realise it is part of grub-bios. Sorry for the mess.]

Last edited by cfr (2012-09-27 22:45:43)


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#21 2012-09-28 05:41:30

DSpider
Member
From: Romania
Registered: 2009-08-23
Posts: 2,273

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

Don't use something like "/dev/sda1" when installing GRUB.

cfr, I think you mean "grub-install", not "grub-setup".


"How to Succeed with Linux"

I have made a personal commitment not to reply in topics that start with a lowercase letter. Proper grammar and punctuation is a sign of respect, and if you do not show any, you will NOT receive any help (at least not from me).

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#22 2012-09-28 17:43:07

ANOKNUSA
Member
Registered: 2010-10-22
Posts: 2,141

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

@luvfree: I'm guessing music, videos and games are things you just don't bother with at all on your computers?  'Cuz anyone with a decent collection of any of those media are going to need a whole hell of a lot  more than 10 Gb of storage, and is the reason why most folks only consider space wasted when it goes unused.

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#23 2012-09-28 18:10:55

trizcuit
Member
Registered: 2012-09-25
Posts: 17

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

DSpider wrote:

Don't use something like "/dev/sda1" when installing GRUB.

cfr, I think you mean "grub-install", not "grub-setup".

Yeah wouldn't install grub ot sda1 was just following what I read and to install it on "/dev/sda" is this not correct or better way to go about it? I'm just tempted to get rid of my Windows 7 partition and using linux as my main OS.

Last edited by trizcuit (2012-09-28 18:20:36)

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#24 2012-09-28 19:27:02

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,010

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

trizcuit wrote:
DSpider wrote:

Don't use something like "/dev/sda1" when installing GRUB.

cfr, I think you mean "grub-install", not "grub-setup".

Yeah wouldn't install grub ot sda1 was just following what I read and to install it on "/dev/sda" is this not correct or better way to go about it? I'm just tempted to get rid of my Windows 7 partition and using linux as my main OS.

Grub usually gets installed in /dev/sda.
Then the bootloader from windows gets chainloaded.
Getting rid of windows, means you get rid of all the bugs on the windows.
With each new release of windows, gets a little scarrier: Windows 7 might be last enjoyable version before Windows 8.  Run for your hard drives!


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#25 2012-09-28 21:12:59

satanselbow
Member
Registered: 2011-06-15
Posts: 532

Re: [SOLVED] Installing Arch

nomorewindows wrote:

With each new release of windows, gets a little scarrier: Windows 7 might be last enjoyable version before Windows 8.  Run for your hard drives!

2 points of note...

1. "windows" ... "enjoyable" ... I rest my case...

2. You think Unity / Gnome 3 caused a bit of fishslap in the 'nix community - can't wait for the fallout when Win8 hits. It will be the funniest thing since the naked Quake mod tongue

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