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#1 2012-10-08 13:58:58

dolby
Member
From: 1992
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 1,581

Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

Continued from https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/31840

vesath wrote:

Since nobody maintains it and nothing critical depends on it, BMP should be automatically moved to the AUR during the next [extra] purge. Those happen randomly once a year or so.

dolby wrote:

I understand all of the above but what you say is not exactly accurate.
Some days ago Andrea removed skanlite from extra [1] , Sergej bind-geodns from community [2] and Allan gpodder2 [3] from community without notifying the people who use these applications.

When i emailed Andrea asking why skanlite had been removed from the repos out of the blue, he told me that it had been an orphan for months so he removed it.
This behaviour is irresponsible, annoying and inconsistent to what you claim above.

Naturally its the distribution developers the ones who decide what stays in the repos and what does not, but IMO this behaviour should change. This kind of behaviour might even lead to a broken system and security issues without it being the users fault.

If you want to do scheduled cleanups every now and then, fine; just dont do cleanups all the time without letting anyone know.
Inform the user as much as possible about changes.


[1]: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=63064
[2]: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=63357
[3]: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=63236

PS. OK, Allan sort of announced it by saying in the IRC that he's gonna skip taking part in the python 3.3 rebuild. By dropping gpodder2 and one of its dependencies to the AUR...if one considers that an announcement.

dolby wrote:

Naturally its the distribution developers the ones who decide what stays in the repos and what does not, but IMO this behaviour should change.

vesath wrote:

So instead of developers developing the distro we should have... nobody developing the distro? Makes perfect sense.

That is not what i meant tongue. The behaviour that should (ideally) change is dropping packages from the repos without notifying the users.

Last edited by dolby (2012-10-08 14:03:31)


There shouldn't be any reason to learn more editor types than emacs or vi -- mg (1)
[You learn that sarcasm does not often work well in international forums.  That is why we avoid it. -- ewaller (arch linux forum moderator)

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#2 2012-10-08 14:11:53

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

You can create a script that will compare the output of 'pacman -Qqm' from e.g. last week to today's one.

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#3 2012-10-08 14:36:10

dolby
Member
From: 1992
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 1,581

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

karol wrote:

You can create a script that will compare the output of 'pacman -Qqm' from e.g. last week to today's one.

As it can be assumed from the above context, personally im able to find out what goes in and out of the repos.
This ain't just about me though.


There shouldn't be any reason to learn more editor types than emacs or vi -- mg (1)
[You learn that sarcasm does not often work well in international forums.  That is why we avoid it. -- ewaller (arch linux forum moderator)

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#4 2012-10-08 15:03:33

fsckd
Forum Moderator
Registered: 2009-06-15
Posts: 3,567

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

I don't know where information on community goes but stuff from the other repos is in arch-commits. http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/ … 76322.html


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#5 2012-10-08 15:10:28

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

fsckd wrote:

I don't know where information on community goes but stuff from the other repos is in arch-commits. http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/ … 76322.html

How do you parse that?
What's up with e.g. this thread's title http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/ … 76050.html ?

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#6 2012-10-08 15:16:37

fsckd
Forum Moderator
Registered: 2009-06-15
Posts: 3,567

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

Apparently useful thread titles is not the forte of the system. tongue


aur S & M :: forum rules :: Community Ethos
Resources for Women, POC, LGBT*, and allies

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#7 2012-10-08 15:56:35

dolby
Member
From: 1992
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 1,581

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

fsckd wrote:

I don't know where information on community goes but stuff from the other repos is in arch-commits. http://mailman.archlinux.org/pipermail/ … 76322.html

https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/31562
Way ahead of you smile


There shouldn't be any reason to learn more editor types than emacs or vi -- mg (1)
[You learn that sarcasm does not often work well in international forums.  That is why we avoid it. -- ewaller (arch linux forum moderator)

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#8 2012-10-08 17:10:58

stqn
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Registered: 2010-03-19
Posts: 1,189
Website

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

Yeah, it would be nice if package removals and additions where announced. There could be an automated RSS feed for this, I suppose…?

The only reason I noticed that mousepad had been removed a few months ago was because I switched my system from 32 bit to 64 bit and couldn’t reinstal it.

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#9 2012-10-08 22:31:41

Allan
Developer
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,416
Website

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

stqn wrote:

Yeah, it would be nice if package removals and additions where announced. There could be an automated RSS feed for this, I suppose…?

The only reason I noticed that mousepad had been removed a few months ago was because I switched my system from 32 bit to 64 bit and couldn’t reinstal it.


Great example...    You picked a package that was dropped after being announced on arch-dev-public...


And I did not remove gpoodder because of the python rebuild - it would not have needed rebuilt.   I removed it because the 2.x series is no longer developed and the 3.x series does not sync to an ipod.  I see mo point in maintaining a podcast client that can not sync to my device.

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#10 2012-10-08 23:01:53

stqn
Member
Registered: 2010-03-19
Posts: 1,189
Website

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

Allan wrote:

Great example...    You picked a package that was dropped after being announced on arch-dev-public...

But arch-dev-public is not interesting for users. I have been subscribed to it for a few months (I wasn’t when mousepad was dropped), and the posts there are really not targetted at “normal” users.

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#11 2012-10-08 23:13:02

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

Just because you cannot contribute to arch-dev-public does not mean that the information there is not valuable.

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#12 2012-10-08 23:28:03

drcouzelis
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 3,506
Website

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

I'm having a hard time deciding how I feel about this topic...

On one hand, having an RSS feed of newly added or removed official packages (especially if it's automatically generated) sounds very nice and makes sense to me. Of course, I have no idea who would write such a thing.

On the other hand, after using Arch Linux for three years this situation has never been a problem for me, and I'm having a hard time understanding why it is a problem. Also, the Arch Linux developers seem to have good reasons for removing packages.

dolby wrote:

This behaviour is irresponsible, annoying and inconsistent to what you claim above.

I understand why you would find it inconsistent. Could you please explain why you find it irresponsible and annoying? (I apologize if you already did. I've been reading this thread while holding a baby.) tongue

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#13 2012-10-08 23:40:25

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 3,010

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

stqn wrote:

Yeah, it would be nice if package removals and additions where announced. There could be an automated RSS feed for this, I suppose…?

The only reason I noticed that mousepad had been removed a few months ago was because I switched my system from 32 bit to 64 bit and couldn’t reinstal it.

It's not in either 32 or 64bit repos, but mousepad-git is in the AUR.


I may have to CONSOLE you about your usage of ridiculously easy graphical interfaces...
Look ma, no mouse.

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#14 2012-10-09 11:31:09

dolby
Member
From: 1992
Registered: 2006-08-08
Posts: 1,581

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

drcouzelis wrote:

I'm having a hard time deciding how I feel about this topic...

On one hand, having an RSS feed of newly added or removed official packages (especially if it's automatically generated) sounds very nice and makes sense to me. Of course, I have no idea who would write such a thing.

On the other hand, after using Arch Linux for three years this situation has never been a problem for me, and I'm having a hard time understanding why it is a problem.

There doesnt have an RSS feed. I had suggested writing it in  the newsletter that was alive quite a while ago for example.
Now that thats dead i dont know. Maybe just send an email on arch-dev-public?
Since i dont know what exactly happens behind the scenes, i dont know if the removals i mention above, or removals like these in general, were discussed beforehand but i doubt it.

drcouzelis wrote:

Also, the Arch Linux developers seem to have good reasons for removing packages.

In general i would agree. In the skanlite example, even though apparently it was an ophan for months, the removal happened the same day the application had a new upstream release. The application worked fine.

I am  extremely curious about  the reasons bind-geodns was removed. It was a custom build of a package already in the repos, a package thats normally only used in servers. Since no announcement was made, i can only assume someone woke up at the wrong side of the bed and decided to kick it out, or any other thing my disturbed mind is capable of imagining.

drcouzelis wrote:
dolby wrote:

This behaviour is irresponsible, annoying and inconsistent to what you claim above.

I understand why you would find it inconsistent. Could you please explain why you find it irresponsible and annoying? (I apologize if you already did. I've been reading this thread while holding a baby.) tongue

Its irresponsible because.... for example read about bind-geodns above.

edit:fix typo

Last edited by dolby (2012-10-09 11:33:15)


There shouldn't be any reason to learn more editor types than emacs or vi -- mg (1)
[You learn that sarcasm does not often work well in international forums.  That is why we avoid it. -- ewaller (arch linux forum moderator)

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#15 2012-10-09 12:18:34

progandy
Member
Registered: 2012-05-17
Posts: 2,151

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

drcouzelis wrote:

On one hand, having an RSS feed of newly added or removed official packages (especially if it's automatically generated) sounds very nice and makes sense to me. Of course, I have no idea who would write such a thing.

Maybe something like this? http://progandy.de/repowatch/

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#16 2012-10-09 13:02:20

drcouzelis
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 3,506
Website

Re: Package additions/removals to the distribution repositories

progandy wrote:

Maybe something like this? http://progandy.de/repowatch/

Yes, that is exactly it. As far as I'm concerned, this feed just needs an official archlinux.org location and the situation is completely resolved.

Next, progandy will procede to solve the problem of World Hunger using only Perl!

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