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#26 2012-10-12 12:14:28

cybertorture
Member
Registered: 2010-05-05
Posts: 338

Re: Laptop getting warm

@WonderWoofy just to clarify i meant to say "i915.i915_enable_rc6=1" is default in ubuntu kernel from 12.04, whitch is not in archlinux, so you need to add it to bootloader wink
@adam777 Yes i915 is intel GPU module and in your case is not relavent, you may test with catalist because opensource drivers (nvidia and amd) are know with no proper power management support.


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#27 2012-10-12 23:53:29

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,675

Re: Laptop getting warm

For what it is worth, here is some sensors output:

$ sensors
acpitz-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:        +55.0°C  (crit = +100.0°C)

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Physical id 0:  +55.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 0:         +54.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1:         +55.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)

thinkpad-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
fan1:         557 RPM
temp1:        +59.0°C  
temp2:         +0.0°C  
temp3:        +55.0°C  
temp4:         +0.0°C  
temp5:         +0.0°C  
temp6:         +0.0°C  
temp7:        +26.0°C  
temp8:         +0.0°C  

Here is some output from cpupower:

$ cpupower -c 0,1,2,3 frequency-info
analyzing CPU 0:
  driver: acpi-cpufreq
  CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 0 1 2 3
  CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 0
  maximum transition latency: 10.0 us.
  hardware limits: 800 MHz - 1.40 GHz
  available frequency steps: 1.40 GHz, 1.30 GHz, 1.20 GHz, 1.10 GHz, 1000 MHz, 900 MHz, 800 MHz
  available cpufreq governors: ondemand, performance
  current policy: frequency should be within 800 MHz and 1.40 GHz.
                  The governor "ondemand" may decide which speed to use
                  within this range.
  current CPU frequency is 800 MHz.
  boost state support:
    Supported: no
    Active: no
    25500 MHz max turbo 4 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 3 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 2 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 1 active cores
analyzing CPU 1:
  driver: acpi-cpufreq
  CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 0 1 2 3
  CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 1
  maximum transition latency: 10.0 us.
  hardware limits: 800 MHz - 1.40 GHz
  available frequency steps: 1.40 GHz, 1.30 GHz, 1.20 GHz, 1.10 GHz, 1000 MHz, 900 MHz, 800 MHz
  available cpufreq governors: ondemand, performance
  current policy: frequency should be within 800 MHz and 1.40 GHz.
                  The governor "ondemand" may decide which speed to use
                  within this range.
  current CPU frequency is 800 MHz.
  boost state support:
    Supported: no
    Active: no
    25500 MHz max turbo 4 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 3 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 2 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 1 active cores
analyzing CPU 2:
  driver: acpi-cpufreq
  CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 0 1 2 3
  CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 2
  maximum transition latency: 10.0 us.
  hardware limits: 800 MHz - 1.40 GHz
  available frequency steps: 1.40 GHz, 1.30 GHz, 1.20 GHz, 1.10 GHz, 1000 MHz, 900 MHz, 800 MHz
  available cpufreq governors: ondemand, performance
  current policy: frequency should be within 800 MHz and 1.40 GHz.
                  The governor "ondemand" may decide which speed to use
                  within this range.
  current CPU frequency is 800 MHz.
  boost state support:
    Supported: no
    Active: no
    25500 MHz max turbo 4 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 3 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 2 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 1 active cores
analyzing CPU 3:
  driver: acpi-cpufreq
  CPUs which run at the same hardware frequency: 0 1 2 3
  CPUs which need to have their frequency coordinated by software: 3
  maximum transition latency: 10.0 us.
  hardware limits: 800 MHz - 1.40 GHz
  available frequency steps: 1.40 GHz, 1.30 GHz, 1.20 GHz, 1.10 GHz, 1000 MHz, 900 MHz, 800 MHz
  available cpufreq governors: ondemand, performance
  current policy: frequency should be within 800 MHz and 1.40 GHz.
                  The governor "ondemand" may decide which speed to use
                  within this range.
  current CPU frequency is 800 MHz.
  boost state support:
    Supported: no
    Active: no
    25500 MHz max turbo 4 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 3 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 2 active cores
    25500 MHz max turbo 1 active cores

As you can see, all cores are running at their lowest frequency and yet the machine is mid-50s. Until a couple of months ago, it would have been low to mid 40s with this sort of load.

Relevant kernel parameters:

pcie_aspm=force i915.i915_enable_rc6=1 i915.i915_enable_fbc=1 i915.lvds_downclock=1 i915.semaphores=1

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#28 2012-10-13 00:14:42

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Laptop getting warm

@adam777, what cybertorture is correct.  i915 is the module for intel graphics, and on my machine with an Intel core-i5 3210M (Ivy Bridge and thus HD4000) it works without issue.  Though this doens't apply to your machine, I will just mention that i am using i915_enable_rc6=7 i915_enable_fbc=1 semaphores=1 pcie_aspm=force .

@cybertorture, that is what I was trying to get across to the OP.  It seemed like he was saying that because you mentioned it as being the default in ubuntu, it therefore doesn't apply to Arch Linux.

@cfr, wow, that does seem a bit high.  The cores themselves do not seem too out of the ordinary.  Mine are 51.0°C right now, but my temp1 is 29.8°C.  Also, if you don't want to dirty up your kernel command line with all those parameters, you can put them in /etc/modprobe.d/i915.conf and then add that file to the FILES= line of mkinitcpio.conf.

Edit: @cfr, the pcie_aspm=force has to stay on the kernel command line though, as it is built into the kernel and not as a module.

Last edited by WonderWoofy (2012-10-13 00:15:28)

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#29 2012-10-13 00:35:18

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,675

Re: Laptop getting warm

@WonderWoofy,
Is your '7' a typo for '1'?

The parameters on the command line don't bother me unless there's some reason it should. (They are all tucked away in grub.cfg together with the resume parameter which is going to make it untidy regardless.) Also, I don't really want them in mkinitcpio.conf because I maintain separate grub entries with different combinations in case of problems.  I don't include them on my recovery lines, for example, in case they should themselves cause an issue. And they are also easy to edit at boot time if need be. (This is one kind of reason I don't find EFI stub booting especially appealing.)

Does "temp1" always mean the same thing? I mean, my "temp7" is 26C (how do you type the degree symbol - I can't type anything except in LaTeX!). Or do these always refer to particular things?


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#30 2012-10-13 01:01:57

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Laptop getting warm

No it is not a typo, check out modinfo i915.  Using 7 enables all rc6 states.  I was wary of this at first, but it has been about a week, and all is still okay.

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#31 2012-10-13 01:09:13

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,675

Re: Laptop getting warm

WonderWoofy wrote:

No it is not a typo, check out modinfo i915.  Using 7 enables all rc6 states.  I was wary of this at first, but it has been about a week, and all is still okay.

Very interesting - thanks. For some reason, I assumed the "1" meant "on" and it was just a binary toggle.

I'm a bit wary - how much does it help and is "okay" "not so bad considering..." or "I can't tell the difference except for the savings"?!


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#32 2012-10-13 01:28:18

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Laptop getting warm

I can't tell a difference, and havne't actually checked/payed attention to power savings. 

You are correct in that 1 is on, as here is what modinfo outputs about it:
(0 = disable; 1 = enable rc6; 2 = enable deep rc6; 4 = enable deepest rc6). For example, 3 would enable rc6 and deep rc6, and 7 would enable everything. default: -1 (use per-chip default) (int)

So it works kind of like the octal permissions, where adding the integers results in the levels enabled.

Edit: So I checked powertop and it says it is using 6.63 W ass opposed the the 10-12 it was using before I added the modprobe.d file to my mkinitcpio.

Last edited by WonderWoofy (2012-10-13 01:30:27)

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#33 2012-10-13 03:14:10

kvanberendonck
Member
Registered: 2012-08-17
Posts: 45

Re: Laptop getting warm

Swap to the closed source driver and see if it fixes your heat problem for you. I swapped to fglrx from radeon and gained an hour or so battery life, as well as 60 degrees idle -> 30-40 degrees idle, so now my fan runs much less.

I'm using a dual graphics setup though, so there isn't much radeon support there.

See below.

Last edited by kvanberendonck (2012-10-13 03:48:32)

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#34 2012-10-13 03:22:16

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Laptop getting warm

I am pretty sure the OP has an intel card... so yeah... probably should have read the thread.

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#35 2012-10-13 03:48:09

kvanberendonck
Member
Registered: 2012-08-17
Posts: 45

Re: Laptop getting warm

WonderWoofy wrote:

I am pretty sure the OP has an intel card... so yeah... probably should have read the thread.

Yeah sorry, messed up. I was skimming the thread and saw "* EDIT Using the open source radeon driver." so I made the wrong assumption.

@OP, Ignore what I said above.

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#36 2012-10-13 18:58:12

trizcuit
Member
Registered: 2012-09-25
Posts: 17

Re: Laptop getting warm

Well after wiping my drive and messing around with an old version of Ubuntu to test to see if Linux hates my computer it did hate it and made my computer hot like Arch but when I switch to a newer version of Ubuntu with a newer kernel the hotness seemed to subside and temps were down but just slightly hotter than when running Windows. I guess the older kernel was the problem? Not totally sure on that may download the new Arch ISO and install once again and see if its fixed.

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#37 2012-10-13 19:10:07

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Laptop getting warm

Well, what version was this improved kernel?  You know that typically any kernel ubuntu is running is likely older than the current kernel of Arch.  I guess that is unless you are running 13.4, which I am not sure is even available (I don't typically watch ubuntu stuff).

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#38 2012-10-13 22:29:57

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,675

Re: Laptop getting warm

Maybe I'll have to try a 7, then.

I'd like to know what these mean, though. You said "temp1" seemed high but what is temp1? temp1 and temp3 always seem in the same range as the core temps, with temp7 generally much lower (and the rest as zeros which I assume means the sensors don't exist or the software can't read them though I don't know which). And that is not recent - temp1 has always been similar to temp3 and the core temps.

EDIT: Didn't realise I hadn't refreshed the page - this was a response to WonderWoofy's saying that the 7 didn't make a noticeable difference (but that the whole lot saved much energy - not sure how to get that info from powertop but it sounds impressive).

Last edited by cfr (2012-10-13 22:33:06)


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#39 2012-10-14 00:08:36

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Laptop getting warm

cfr, I checked again under more normal loads, and it is in fact resting just below 10 W, still a bit lower than without it. 

Also, sorry I should have indicated that I was referring to the coretemp-isa-0000 readings and the acpitz-virtual-0, respectively.  In other words, my coretemp readings are very similar, but my acpitz is faaaarrrr lower at 29C.  My model of Thinkpad does not actualy output the temp1, temp2, etc under the thinkpad-isa-0000, just fan speed (of zero).

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#40 2012-10-14 17:33:55

adam777
Member
Registered: 2012-05-28
Posts: 161

Re: Laptop getting warm

@WonderWoofy, The HD4000 threw me off.
I somehow failed to notice the general discussion.
Obviously the Intel HD graphics 4000 has nothing to do with the AMD radeon HD 4000 series.
Stupid similar names smile

Last edited by adam777 (2012-10-14 17:34:16)

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#41 2012-10-14 18:45:17

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Laptop getting warm

@adam777, hey, I didn't even know there was an AMD Radeon HD 4000.  I will be more specific in the future.

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#42 2012-10-14 23:03:44

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,675

Re: Laptop getting warm

WonderWoofy wrote:

cfr, I checked again under more normal loads, and it is in fact resting just below 10 W, still a bit lower than without it. 

Also, sorry I should have indicated that I was referring to the coretemp-isa-0000 readings and the acpitz-virtual-0, respectively.  In other words, my coretemp readings are very similar, but my acpitz is faaaarrrr lower at 29C.  My model of Thinkpad does not actualy output the temp1, temp2, etc under the thinkpad-isa-0000, just fan speed (of zero).

Hmm... I assume you ran sensors-detect at some point?

What I'm not sure about is whether that figure necessarily refers to the same thing on different hardware. I tried googling it and the most informative answer I found suggested that it was very difficult to say what exactly acpitz-virtual-0 is actually reporting (http://lists.lm-sensors.org/pipermail/l … 37158.html):

You can't really. It's all hidden behind ACPI magic. You may have a
hint with:

$ grep . /sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone*/device/path

but in general the name is generic and thus not useful. So the only way
to know where exactly ACPI gets its values is by disassembling the
DSDT, and looking for the code behind the thermal zones. Nothing easy
and pleasant.

So I'm not clear whether your temperature is necessarily referring to the same thing as my temperature. And whether the difference is worrying or, at any rate, telling presumably turns on whether the report is measuring equivalent temperatures on the two machines.

What's DSDT?

Last edited by cfr (2012-10-14 23:04:41)


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#43 2012-10-14 23:19:00

WonderWoofy
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From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Laptop getting warm

I don;t know exactly what DSDT is, but I know it has something to do with the interface between acpi and the hardware... possibly the hardware and everything. Don't quote me on that.

About the differences in temp, I didn't mean you should necessarily worry about it.  But I just thought you might like to know what a machine of the same brand was reporting something vastly different on a device that is labeled the same. 

I did indeed run sensors-detect, and thus got that comparison from running sensors. You should probably take into consideration though that I use a ThinkPad Edge, whereas you use a "real" Thinkpad.  In fact the ThinkPad Edge more or less took the place of the SL series, and those wouldn't even load the thinkpad_acpi module, but the lenovo_acpi module instead.  I guess my Edge is a bit more ThinkPad-y because it does indeed load the thinkpad_acpi module, but it will not run tpsmapi or hdaps.  I have read in many places that my computer is kind of like an IdeaPad in ThinkPad clothes.  I could buy that actually... at least I have the solid metal hinges of a ThinkPad.

About the rc6pp setting mentioned earlier.  I have been switching between enabling that state and not (no setting vs 7), and I think I actually get slightly, slightly, slightly better power consumption with no setting (longer battery life by maybe 15-20 minutes).  With the default setting -1 (not sure how that figures in to options of 1 3 or 7), the second lower power state is actually enabled (rc6p).  Have you given it a whirl at all?

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#44 2012-10-15 00:12:50

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,675

Re: Laptop getting warm

I haven't tried it yet but I am planning to. Will report back when I do.

I do and don't have a "real" thinkpad. It is a somewhat less thinkpad-like thinkpad than most of them. I can't run tpsmapi or hdaps either because the stuff which lets that work on bona fide thinkpads is missing on x121e. So I've seen this described in much the same way - more ideapad than thinkpad under the hood.


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#45 2012-10-15 02:29:47

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Laptop getting warm

Out of curiosity, does your thinkpad have metal framing?  Mine appears to bea  good bit plastic, though still very solid feeling, as a ThinkPad should be.

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#46 2012-10-15 23:38:39

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,675

Re: Laptop getting warm

Er... how do I tell?


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#47 2012-10-16 01:08:45

qinohe
Member
From: A Dutch location..)
Registered: 2012-06-20
Posts: 650

Re: Laptop getting warm

cfr wrote:

Er... how do I tell?

Tap against it with a coin..gently smile Metal sounds sharp and, well plastic sounds dull..try it!


-I can give you a ladder, but you need to climb it yourself-

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#48 2012-10-16 01:18:52

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Laptop getting warm

When you pull off the bottom panel, is the framing metal?  I am just curious if mine is different in that respect as well.

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#49 2012-10-16 09:01:04

ixnine
Member
Registered: 2008-11-01
Posts: 60

Re: Laptop getting warm

Yeah, you need to open the bottom part to know. I sent my laptop for repairs once, when it came back the bottom part heated so much that the plastic was melting. I found out the repair guys actually stole the metal framing because when I went back they told me they 'forgot' to put it back on and offered to assemble it again. A friend told me he was victim to that same repair shop a while back.

Kinda OT but yeah that's how I knew mine had metal framing

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#50 2012-12-24 03:14:24

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,675

Re: Laptop getting warm

Sorry. Forgot to update this. Pretty sure mine is plastic - hinges, frame etc. Fairly solid plastic but plastic.


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