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#1 2013-01-24 09:33:14

headkase
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From: Canada
Registered: 2011-12-06
Posts: 1,428
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Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

Read about it here:

http://arstechnica.com/information-tech … ase-cycle/

I can say with full certainty that the main reason I use Arch is because it is a rolling release distribution.  I found out that I wanted that after running Debian for quite the while.  Debian is great but it quickly becomes annoying when you don't have access to updated packages.

If Ubuntu does actually become rolling release then it will definitely get another try out of myself.  How about you?


We all make choices, but in the end, our choices make us.

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#2 2013-01-24 09:46:55

kaszak696
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Registered: 2009-05-26
Posts: 543

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

Unlikely to happen, and wouldn't solve the main issues that drove me away from Ubuntu: Unity and horrible Community.


'What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.' - Christopher Hitchens
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#3 2013-01-24 09:55:59

graysky
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From: /run/user/1000
Registered: 2008-12-01
Posts: 8,454
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Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

The Ubuntu Way != the Arch Way.  And aptitude != pacman.  The proposed strategic shift in package updates will never overcome those key differences.

Oh, and Canonical is a for-proffit institution.  Don't forget that tongue


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#4 2013-01-24 09:56:05

Meyithi
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From: Wirral, UK
Registered: 2009-06-21
Posts: 550
Website

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

It's not so much the Rolling Release for me - I still need the DIY approach.  I like the analogy of building PC's -  I couldn't imagine using one that I didn't put together myself.  Having sourced and installed all components myself makes supporting and maintaining the machine so much easier and if something breaks it's my fault.

I know other distro's have "netboot" minimal images you can make minimal installs with but they don't behave the same, certain flows and combinations of packages are expected which leads to compromise.


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#5 2013-01-24 10:00:15

headkase
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From: Canada
Registered: 2011-12-06
Posts: 1,428
Website

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

kaszak696 wrote:

Unlikely to happen, and wouldn't solve the main issues that drove me away from Ubuntu: Unity and horrible Community.

I've used Ubuntu and don't mind Unity.  If Unity is the issue there is always Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Lubuntu, etc.

Ubuntu being the most popular distribution tends to get some, a small number of, packages that aren't easily available on other distributions.  Also if Ubuntu goes rolling release then that would perhaps do well with Arch too: if Ubuntu got X updates then being the largest distribution you would think that proprietary driver vendors like AMD and Nvidia would update their drivers quicker to support the bleeding edge.  I know with Catalyst you can now use the latest driver with Arch but there have been periods where the latest Catalyst driver did not support the latest X server in Arch.

Last edited by headkase (2013-01-24 10:01:52)


We all make choices, but in the end, our choices make us.

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#6 2013-01-24 10:11:56

SidK
Member
Registered: 2011-03-03
Posts: 116

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

Interesting article, thanks smile

It'd be very difficult to do well, since you have to keep checking that the upgrade path from the last (2 year old) installation medium to the current snapshot is painless. They wouldn't be able to rely on users reading the news post and taking action like arch users (are supposed to) do. Having said that, deciding if this would be beneficial to Ubuntu users isn't easy for me.

I don't know what Ubuntu users see as the critical aspects of Ubuntu (that's not supposed to sound snarky), but here's my stab:

I know they value ease of use and I suppose the tricky dist-upgrades would disappear, or at least be a lot rarer. So there's one improvement to users.

They value the large repositories and large number of PPAs. Having less versions being supported at any one time would ease the job of developers and packagers which I believe would mean more packages available or better attention paid to updates. To clarify, currently if you haven't updated to the latest Ubuntu you may not have a PPA or a package in the repos. This problem would go away.

They value the large amount of guides, tips, hints etc you can easily find on various blogs. Having less frequent major upgrades may mean these go out of date less quickly, which is a good thing.

This does require users keeping on top of updates, however I believe this is largely done for you in Ubuntu. So all in all I believe this would be beneficial to the Ubuntu users. However I'm sure there's plenty I've not taken into account, such as the server edition, the ability for Canonical to experiment, how this would affect the distros based on Ubuntu or how this would affect the non-techie's perception of Ubuntu.

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#7 2013-01-24 10:20:11

HungGarTiger
Member
From: nz/auckland/
Registered: 2012-06-27
Posts: 186

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

Ubuntu going rolling release is kind of a "meh" issue for me, I used ubuntu for about a year and I can't say much positive for the community, although they do have a few quality members. Now my girlfriend uses Xubuntu and constantly forgets to update her laptop, I couldn't imagine the problems she would have if Ubuntu became a rolling release. I feel this goes for the majority of Ubuntu users too, Ubuntu is the most popular distro beacuse it is "easy". When these users face the problems of a rolling release I wonder how many will stay.. A few will move onto Debian (the mystical distro they hear theirs is based on) or they will go back to somewhere "safe" i.e. Windows

Thats just my opinion and I guess time will tell


"No sympathy for the devil. If you buy the ticket, take the ride."
- Hunter S. Thompson

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#8 2013-01-24 10:32:54

kleskjr
Member
Registered: 2011-12-31
Posts: 33

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

I think that would be a great move for Ubuntu. And concerning some critics, don't forget that rolling release != bleeding edge. Non frequent user updates shouldn't be necessary a problem.

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#9 2013-01-24 11:00:24

HungGarTiger
Member
From: nz/auckland/
Registered: 2012-06-27
Posts: 186

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

kleskjr wrote:

I think that would be a great move for Ubuntu. And concerning some critics, don't forget that rolling release != bleeding edge. Non frequent user updates shouldn't be necessary a problem.

Maybe thats true, I'm not really a critic though. I'm just saying alot of Ubuntu members have problems because they don't like to learn much about how a distro works. In fact, most treat it like they did with Windows. Having possibly daily problems might make it seem going back to Windows (or moving on to another stable distro) is a better option.


"No sympathy for the devil. If you buy the ticket, take the ride."
- Hunter S. Thompson

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#10 2013-01-24 12:28:10

the sad clown
Member
From: 192.168.0.X
Registered: 2011-03-20
Posts: 833

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

headkase wrote:

Ubuntu being the most popular distribution tends to get some, a small number of, packages that aren't easily available on other distributions.  Also if Ubuntu goes rolling release then that would perhaps do well with Arch too: if Ubuntu got X updates then being the largest distribution you would think that proprietary driver vendors like AMD and Nvidia would update their drivers quicker to support the bleeding edge.  I know with Catalyst you can now use the latest driver with Arch but there have been periods where the latest Catalyst driver did not support the latest X server in Arch.

A rolling release will not mean cutting edge version updates.  My impression of Arch is that they chose a rolling release model because that was the simplest way to maintain a bleeding edge distribution.  Ubuntu is looking into going to a rolling release to ease the pressure of their biannual release schedule decision making.  You could still have a rolling release and not update software as quickly as Arch does.


I laugh, yet the joke is on me

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#11 2013-01-24 12:47:55

th3voic3
Member
Registered: 2012-03-20
Posts: 90

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

The thing that had me looking for other distributions after starting out with Ubuntu was that I had a strong disliking toward Canonical, Mark Shuttleworth and their "we know what's best, f*** the community" approach.
Oh and a "political" blog article by Mark Shuttleworth that showed a strong political ignorance on his part.
Well and of course the usual "I don't need my distribution to hold my hand all the time anymore".

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#12 2013-01-24 12:51:10

jakobcreutzfeldt
Member
Registered: 2011-05-12
Posts: 1,033

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

the sad clown wrote:

A rolling release will not mean cutting edge version updates.  My impression of Arch is that they chose a rolling release model because that was the simplest way to maintain a bleeding edge distribution.  Ubuntu is looking into going to a rolling release to ease the pressure of their biannual release schedule decision making.  You could still have a rolling release and not update software as quickly as Arch does.

But then they're going to have the worst of both worlds: rolling release on a huge repository of software, meaning hard work staying up-to-date on all the latest versions; while with a slower release schedule, they'd still have to busy themselves with backporting essential security fixes and other patches.

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#13 2013-01-24 15:56:26

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 12,748

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

After a couple small perturbations at the start, this  thread settled down to a good discussion.  Please continue to respect other operating systems.  Thanks


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Like you, I have no idea what you are doing, but I am pretty sure it is wrong...Jasonwryan
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#14 2013-01-24 16:36:49

FreeTheBee
Member
Registered: 2011-01-02
Posts: 124

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

Rolling release with a bit conservative update policy would be a good release model for ubuntu, I think. I used ubuntu for about 2 year before switching to Arch and never really liked the release cycle. Fixing small issues after an update is usually easier than trying to figure out the root of a problem after a full system upgrade. Having to wait half a year for new versions of software or managing ppa's can be annoying as well (vim 7.3 comes to mind). Rolling release could take away those annoyances, although my experience is many users don't care so much about having the latest. 

Perhaps, not being to able to announce a new release every half year and drawing some media attention, might be a drawback from a marketing point of view. Personally I wouldn't care, but trying to draw in new users I could see this being an issue for canonical.

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#15 2013-01-24 16:59:45

ozar
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2005-02-18
Posts: 1,681

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

headkase wrote:

If Ubuntu does actually become rolling release then it will definitely get another try out of myself.  How about you?

Nope, not me... I have no interest in Ubuntu whatsoever, regardless of how it is released.


oz

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#16 2013-01-24 17:09:56

kanikuleet
Member
Registered: 2012-12-22
Posts: 36

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

Anyways, I'll stay with Arch for The Arch Way and, of course, pacman smile

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#17 2013-01-24 17:55:54

the sad clown
Member
From: 192.168.0.X
Registered: 2011-03-20
Posts: 833

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

jakobcreutzfeldt wrote:

But then they're going to have the worst of both worlds: rolling release on a huge repository of software, meaning hard work staying up-to-date on all the latest versions; while with a slower release schedule, they'd still have to busy themselves with backporting essential security fixes and other patches.

I would think it wouldn't be that big a change from what they already do, only without the six month deadline hanging over them regarding whether or not to put out an update or not.  Now, they'll just update stuff when they feel it's ready.


I laugh, yet the joke is on me

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#18 2013-01-24 21:18:58

nomorewindows
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Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 2,980

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

I was never really impressed with Ubuntu, but there was a transition period between something that didn't have frequent updates in mind like RedHat, (before high speed internet connections), and a more updated distribution.  Something like ArchLinux would've been my first choice.  Ubuntu is a six month rolling release and you might have every package along with its' dependencies and every kernel since the day Ubuntu came out still installed on your machine.  That sounds more like a burdened release system.


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#19 2013-01-24 22:12:31

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

the sad clown wrote:

A rolling release will not mean cutting edge version updates.  My impression of Arch is that they chose a rolling release model because that was the simplest way to maintain a bleeding edge distribution.  Ubuntu is looking into going to a rolling release to ease the pressure of their biannual release schedule decision making.  You could still have a rolling release and not update software as quickly as Arch does.

Being so used to Arch, I fail to consider that there are differences.

Anyways even if Ubuntu did become more bleeding-edge AND rolling release, I probably wouldn't switch back. I cannot help but wonder how things would have ended up different had they implemented this when I first used Linux though.

the sad clown wrote:

I would think it wouldn't be that big a change from what they already do, only without the six month deadline hanging over them regarding whether or not to put out an update or not.  Now, they'll just update stuff when they feel it's ready.

With a rolling release, I find upgrading a smaller number of packages more frequently is less problematic than trying to update a whole OS every 6 months. With all that can go wrong in doing an OS upgrade, I always tend to do clean installs which is annoying when your OS is upgraded every 6 months.

Last edited by anonymous_user (2013-01-24 22:18:51)

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#20 2013-01-24 22:50:17

Leonid.I
Member
From: Aethyr
Registered: 2009-03-22
Posts: 948

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

headkase wrote:

Read about it here:

http://arstechnica.com/information-tech … ase-cycle/

I can say with full certainty that the main reason I use Arch is because it is a rolling release distribution.  I found out that I wanted that after running Debian for quite the while.  Debian is great but it quickly becomes annoying when you don't have access to updated packages.

If Ubuntu does actually become rolling release then it will definitely get another try out of myself.  How about you?

Rolling release ideas became quite popular lately. For example, people at Fedora discussed it: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermai … 73397.html, and now ubuntu.

These discussions seem to originate from the fact that the release cycle of 6 or 8 months is too rapid: there simply not enough "shiny" features in each new version to be advertised on the front page, while under-the-hood work tends to delay the releases, like in the case of OpenSUSE 12.2 or Fedora 18. Actually, Ubuntu was the only large distro which could "stay on schedule", IMHO.

That said, I think Ubuntu will only benefit from a steadier release model which requires less reinstalls.

Last edited by Leonid.I (2013-01-24 22:52:27)


Arch Linux is more than just GNU/Linux -- it's an adventure

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#21 2013-01-24 22:58:45

1archgamenon2
Banned
Registered: 2011-07-12
Posts: 201

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

headkase wrote:

If Ubuntu does actually become rolling release then it will definitely get another try out of myself.  How about you?

Good for them!

and for U: the doors and windows are wide open!

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#22 2013-01-25 05:50:50

t0m5k1
Member
From: overthere
Registered: 2012-02-10
Posts: 302

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

I used ubuntu for quite some time & moved to xubuntu once unity came along, I then left it looking for a distro which did not use meta packages as I hated having to install a bunch of items I had no need for.

Since being with Arch I don't see me leaving for quite some time.

I care not if canonical are profit driven or not, I do like what they are doing here in SA & absolutely love that when I go to banks & other institutions out here I see more & more people using a form of linux (ubuntu) in the work place.


Optiplex 790, Intel Core i3-2100 CPU @ 3.10GHz 16Mb Corsair Vengeance 1333Mhz - GeForce 970 - AwesomeWM (occasionally XFCE, i3)

If everything in life was easy, we would learn nothing!
Linux User: 401820   Last FM

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#23 2013-01-25 06:00:05

anonymous_user
Member
Registered: 2009-08-28
Posts: 3,058

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

t0m5k1 wrote:

I used ubuntu for quite some time & moved to xubuntu once unity came along, I then left it looking for a distro which did not use meta packages as I hated having to install a bunch of items I had no need for.

Just FYI, Arch LInux has meta-packages too (albeit very few). Furthermore the restrictions of a metapackage can be worked around by simply uninstalling it.

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#24 2013-01-26 11:09:37

DarkCerberus
Member
From: England, United Kingdom
Registered: 2011-12-31
Posts: 246

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

It looks like Ubuntu won't switch to a rolling release according to OMG! Ubuntu - here's the article http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubun … ease-model

I had a feeling that they wouldn't switch.


"Time travel is not just some technological marvel. It's the family business." - Mr Escher - Continuum

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#25 2013-02-05 15:19:41

t0m5k1
Member
From: overthere
Registered: 2012-02-10
Posts: 302

Re: Ubuntu perhaps to go to Rolling Release

anonymous_user wrote:
t0m5k1 wrote:

I used ubuntu for quite some time & moved to xubuntu once unity came along, I then left it looking for a distro which did not use meta packages as I hated having to install a bunch of items I had no need for.

Just FYI, Arch LInux has meta-packages too (albeit very few). Furthermore the restrictions of a metapackage can be worked around by simply uninstalling it.

Yes I know & sometimes metapackages can be great but for me personally ubuntu place far far too many packages into their metapackages.

In my situation I ended up having to remove x/ubuntu-desktop which as I worked out pretty much strips out everything & it was at that point I decided if I have to reinstall what I want I will change distro to Arch


Optiplex 790, Intel Core i3-2100 CPU @ 3.10GHz 16Mb Corsair Vengeance 1333Mhz - GeForce 970 - AwesomeWM (occasionally XFCE, i3)

If everything in life was easy, we would learn nothing!
Linux User: 401820   Last FM

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