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#1 2013-02-19 21:56:08

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

Hello guys,

I have been having this problem for quite sometime and would like to know where to start troubleshooting this. I have a Lenovo Thinkpad T420s laptop, i5 processor, 8 GB or Ram and Intel Graphics, which reboots on ocassion.

This is highly dependent on what desktop environment I am running and what apps I have opened (I have Gnome 3, Xfce 4 and Openbox standalone). If I boot up into Gnome, the problem will present itself If I open netflix-desktop or a light game. For Xfce 4, it reboots if I put to much presure on the OS, say I have a Virtual machine (on virtualbox) running taking up 4GB of Ram and 10 or so firefox tabs along with a text editor, recently I found that playing youtube videos from an xfce environment makes the reboots occur more often than not.

For openbox (and this is where it gets weird), I have NO reboots at all, I don't know if it has been pure luck or what, but for example, netflix-desktop on Gnome will cause my laptop to reboot in 1-1.5 hours, while in openbox this does not happen, same with the virtual machine case and xfce4 or youtube videos.

Since the laptop reboots instantly, I have no idea how to collect a log or some debug info, so I was expeting some of you guys can help with this!

Here is a video showing the problem, remember this is not only with games but with other apps as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS705x2F1zU

thanks for the help!


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#2 2013-02-19 22:21:22

WonderWoofy
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From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

It is likely that you are having heat issues I would say.  You should check out lm_sensors and see if you can determine what is up.  If you think about the amount of strain each of these things put on the computer, though it shouldn't be much, I would say that the overhead of gnome and xfce is going to be far greater than a simple openbox session. 

Of course, without any evidence, this is pure speculation, and in fact, when a system overheats, I believe that typically it simpyl shuts itself down, not restart.  So you are going to have to get some real data about what is actually happening, not just a broad overview of what you observe.

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#3 2013-02-19 22:42:46

rfk1ll
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Registered: 2013-02-01
Posts: 24

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

655321, saw your post from a few months ago  https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=149224
It appears you have cross posted this.

Last edited by rfk1ll (2013-02-19 22:50:25)

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#4 2013-02-19 23:01:17

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

rfk1ll wrote:

655321, saw your post from a few months ago  https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=149224
It appears you have cross posted this.

Sorry about that! completely forgot I posted that, altough between that post and this one the difference would be that my laptop motherboard was faulty, and was replaced by lenovo support a few weeks ago. I figured the problem would have been solved after this but it isn't. Also at that time the problem only happened when I played games, now it ocurrs on other, non graphic intensive apps.


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With microsoft you get windows and gates, with linux you get the whole house!
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#5 2013-02-19 23:09:30

ewaller
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From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 12,265

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

rfk1ll wrote:

655321, saw your post from a few months ago  https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=149224
It appears you have cross posted this.

I went ahead and closed the other post and linked it here.  Had he continued on the other thread, it could have been considered a necrobump.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't tongue


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Like you, I have no idea what you are doing, but I am pretty sure it is wrong...Jasonwryan
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#6 2013-02-19 23:10:36

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

acpitz-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:        +62.0°C  (crit = +97.0°C)

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Physical id 0:  +62.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 0:         +59.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1:         +59.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)

power consumption: ~24.8 W (from powertop)


Linux user #498977
With microsoft you get windows and gates, with linux you get the whole house!
My Blog about ArchLinux and other stuff

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#7 2013-02-19 23:12:19

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

ewaller wrote:
rfk1ll wrote:

655321, saw your post from a few months ago  https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=149224
It appears you have cross posted this.

I went ahead and closed the other post and linked it here.  Had he continued on the other thread, it could have been considered a necrobump.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't tongue

thanks big_smile


Linux user #498977
With microsoft you get windows and gates, with linux you get the whole house!
My Blog about ArchLinux and other stuff

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#8 2013-02-19 23:21:41

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

Yeah, those temps seem pretty high.  And obviously this is when your machine is actually running.  So maybe you could stress it a bit and then see if it shoots up?

Last edited by WonderWoofy (2013-02-19 23:22:30)

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#9 2013-02-19 23:26:13

doug piston
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From: Seattle
Registered: 2011-09-11
Posts: 387
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

If I recall this machine has integrated graphics? If so have a look into bumblebee. It takes my idle temps down 20C.



Edit: Add link.

Last edited by doug piston (2013-02-19 23:29:04)

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#10 2013-02-19 23:28:13

rfk1ll
Member
Registered: 2013-02-01
Posts: 24

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

655321, Have you saw this?

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-a … 977/page/2 

In particular this:

"Sounds like you have the "System Failure - auto restart" feature enabled. I always turn that off on my computers. It is really designed so that in the event of a crash your system just restarts rather than giving you the BSOD. The BSOD is more helpful as you get an error code which can help you troubleshoot the problem. Given that you have reinstalled the OS I would suspect a driver issue is behind the crashes. You can turn off the setting at Start\Control Panel\System\Advanced System Settings\Advanced\Startup and Recovery\Settings\System Failure\Automaticly Restart."

Same sort of problems, different software.  Perhaps googling the Bios version would give you some more info. There seems to be a lot of reports of this issue on the lenovo forums.

Last edited by rfk1ll (2013-02-19 23:33:27)

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#11 2013-02-19 23:32:58

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

@WonderWoofy which stress test would you recommend, any software or command? I would need something that logs the result and keeps it even if the laptop reboots.

doug piston wrote:

If I recall this machine has integrated graphics? If so have a look into bumblebee. It takes my idle temps down 20C.

bumblebee is for nvidia optimus based laptops, this has just an intel card:

00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
    Subsystem: Lenovo Device 21d2
    Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 0, IRQ 50
    Memory at f0000000 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4M]
    Memory at e0000000 (64-bit, prefetchable) [size=256M]
    I/O ports at 4000 [size=64]
    Expansion ROM at <unassigned> [disabled]
    Capabilities: [90] MSI: Enable+ Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit-
    Capabilities: [d0] Power Management version 2
    Capabilities: [a4] PCI Advanced Features
    Kernel driver in use: i915


Linux user #498977
With microsoft you get windows and gates, with linux you get the whole house!
My Blog about ArchLinux and other stuff

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#12 2013-02-19 23:37:32

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

Just start doing something that typically causes it to reboot itself.... it doesn't sound like a whole hell of a lot of stress is necessary.  Then before it does reboot (or do it from openbox so that you can simply see if there is a big change) check the sensors again and see if there is a drastic difference.  I am not trying to tell you to use some specific tool, just do what you normally can't I guess and try to check before sh*t goes awry.

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#13 2013-02-20 00:08:38

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

rfk1ll wrote:

655321, Have you saw this?

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-a … 977/page/2 

In particular this:

"Sounds like you have the "System Failure - auto restart" feature enabled. I always turn that off on my computers. It is really designed so that in the event of a crash your system just restarts rather than giving you the BSOD. The BSOD is more helpful as you get an error code which can help you troubleshoot the problem. Given that you have reinstalled the OS I would suspect a driver issue is behind the crashes. You can turn off the setting at Start\Control Panel\System\Advanced System Settings\Advanced\Startup and Recovery\Settings\System Failure\Automaticly Restart."

Same sort of problems, different software.  Perhaps googling the Bios version would give you some more info. There seems to be a lot of reports of this issue on the lenovo forums.

Haven't seen that, however, I am unable to try the workaround since that option is not available on Arch, maybe on the BIOS but I have not seen it. What I just noticed is that my BIOS is version 1.34 and the latest version is 1.43, maybe a BIOS flash can fix the problem.

EDIT!!!! I downloaded the wrong BIOS file lol, current version for the t420s is 1.36, 1.43 was meant for the T420, thank god it threw me an error before flashing big_smile

Gonna make it and come back with results.

I also just found something that can prove useful http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/downloa … D=DS025448

Linux based diagnostic tool bootable cd big_smile

Last edited by 655321 (2013-02-20 00:33:52)


Linux user #498977
With microsoft you get windows and gates, with linux you get the whole house!
My Blog about ArchLinux and other stuff

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#14 2013-02-20 17:36:39

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

Ok I am back, Flashed the BIOS and ran diagnostics CD, all went smooth.

As WonderWoofy suggested, It is a temperature problem. However now it takes more work to make the computer reboot, for example, previously temperature would rise to 97 C just for having netflix open, now to get this kind of temperatures I needed to Open a VM, netflix, youtube and ~10 firefox tabs.

Is there a way to make the computer run cooler so this does not happen, I did not buy a laptop and put 8GB ram in it just to watch it reboot when I need the RAM....

thanks for the help!


Linux user #498977
With microsoft you get windows and gates, with linux you get the whole house!
My Blog about ArchLinux and other stuff

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#15 2013-02-20 21:05:28

doug piston
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From: Seattle
Registered: 2011-09-11
Posts: 387
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

Possibly try another kernel and maybe have a read through this thread. Could be completely un-related though

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#16 2013-02-21 03:34:04

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

Doug Piston is right, there has been a power regression with sandy bridge processors, and it also resulted in massive temp spikes as well.  Maybe try using the LTS kernel and see if this keeps happening.  If it does, you can probably guess it is a hardware issue, and proceed from there.  If it is a kernel issue, you could try KaiSforza's repo which has the mainline kernel in it.  Some have reported that this solves their issue, though some report that the issue persists.

If you are wary of trying an even more bleeding edge kernel, I will tell you that I am running it right now, and it seems to work pretty well.  I cannot tell any issues or regressions on my ivy bridge processor.  There is also the CK kernel, which Graysky is kind enough to host for us in his own repo.  I have actually used that for the past few months, and it is fantastic.  The only reason I stopped (I still have it installed) is because I wanted to try systemd user session, which it does not support.

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#17 2013-02-22 00:10:43

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

Already been in that thread and commented (you can see my comment on page 16, post #383). I used the ck kernel and worked good for a while, and after a few weeks using it started with the exact same problem. Regarding LTS I am going to give it a try and see if that helps.

Thanks so far!


Linux user #498977
With microsoft you get windows and gates, with linux you get the whole house!
My Blog about ArchLinux and other stuff

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#18 2013-02-22 00:59:33

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

You may want to check out your thermal paste and make sure it is still okay... or simply replace it anyway.  Your machine isn't that old, but I have heard of this being the problem numerous times.  Also, it is probably amongst the easiest things to check if it does turn out to be HW related.

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#19 2013-02-22 01:24:12

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

Great idea, I have a little thermal paste around my house, so this shouldn't take long. Gonna come back tomorrow and report if it did any difference!


Linux user #498977
With microsoft you get windows and gates, with linux you get the whole house!
My Blog about ArchLinux and other stuff

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#20 2013-02-22 07:05:53

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

Good luck!

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#21 2013-02-26 17:22:20

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

ok I am back, still no difference in temps, I read somewhere on this forum that the 3.9 kernel has some fixes for this, so I will wait for those and come and fill you in with the results, in fact, I am going to fill you in with every kernel update big_smile


Linux user #498977
With microsoft you get windows and gates, with linux you get the whole house!
My Blog about ArchLinux and other stuff

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#22 2013-02-27 03:32:03

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

Did you try the LTS kernel?  Or any other kernels for that matter... I have seen some reports that the mainline kernel helps, and some that say that CK kernel helps... but none are consistent, which makes me think that it is highly variable from instance to instance.

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#23 2013-03-07 22:46:50

655321
Member
From: Costa Rica
Registered: 2009-12-08
Posts: 412
Website

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

I did, LTS kernel gives me a lot of problems except for power.... (lol), I tried the CK kernel and it helped for a while, then the laptop started heating up even more so I uninstalled it. Right now I am on 3.7.10 and haven't got a reboot since, but temps still are ~62c


Linux user #498977
With microsoft you get windows and gates, with linux you get the whole house!
My Blog about ArchLinux and other stuff

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#24 2013-03-08 05:05:18

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

Have you tried 3.8.2 from [testing]?  I am not sure how long ago you tried the CK kernel, but recently there has been a couple updates of the kernel, so if you haven't tried a 3.8.* kernel, it might be worth giving it a whirl.

At least since you know that 3.0.* gives you consistent temperatures that it is indeed kernel related.  Maybe it might be worth trying the 3.4 LTS kernel, as that was from before the whole Sandy Bridge power regression fiasco started.

Edit: There is a linux-lts34 package in the AUR.  It is flagged out of date, but it seems to be actively updated, so maybe it will be updated soon.

Last edited by WonderWoofy (2013-03-08 05:08:29)

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#25 2013-03-08 07:32:11

dodo3773
Member
Registered: 2011-03-17
Posts: 798

Re: My Laptop sometimes reboots itself

What I do with my laptop is use the "cpupower" application and scale the max frequency down to keep it from getting too hot while doing intensive tasks. My cpu hardware limitation is 800 MHz - 2.20 GHz so I set my  maximum frequency to 1.90 GHz  (2 steps down from maximum (my available frequencies are 2.20 GHz, 2.00 GHz, 1.90 GHz, 1.80 GHz, 1.70 GHz, 1.60 GHz, 1.50 GHz, 1.40 GHz, 1.30 GHz, 1.20 GHz, 1.10 GHz, 1000 MHz, 900 MHz, 800 MHz)) and haven't any overheating problems since. Other than that there is an application called "cpulimit" that can help you scale down processes on a process by process basis.

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