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#1 2013-02-24 07:09:10

darkreaper476
Member
Registered: 2010-05-17
Posts: 98

Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

Hey all, I've been terrified to attempt to install Arch on my new Samsung series 7 due to the whole brick thing and the fact that I have never install Arch via UEFI. I read here {https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=157196&p=2} to never boot Arch in UEFI mode on a Samsung that can be effected. So what I am wondering is how would I dual boot my Win8 lappy with Arch if Win8 is booting via UEFI and Arch needs to boot via bios/MBR? Any general tips would be great as well, I am terrified to brick my system and I don't want to destroy my win8 install either since I dont have a win8 disc obviously...

Thanks

Last edited by darkreaper476 (2013-02-26 21:25:58)


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#2 2013-02-24 09:29:54

DSpider
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From: Romania
Registered: 2009-08-23
Posts: 2,273

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

Instructions for UEFI boot are in the Beginners' Guide, but if you're so "scared" of messing something up, then use a VM and be done with it (at least at first, until you get the hang of it).


"How to Succeed with Linux"

I have made a personal commitment not to reply in topics that start with a lowercase letter. Proper grammar and punctuation is a sign of respect, and if you do not show any, you will NOT receive any help (at least not from me).

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#3 2013-02-24 16:12:49

srs5694
Member
From: Woonsocket, RI
Registered: 2012-11-06
Posts: 719
Website

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

It's possible to convert a Windows installation to boot from EFI mode to boot in BIOS mode instead, but I don't happen to have the URL of a site that describes how to do this. Maybe you could find such instructions in a Web search, though. It's probably easier to re-install Windows from scratch, but the OEM installation tools are probably locked into doing this only in EFI mode, so you'll probably need a retail disc to do this. (You should be able to use your laptop's Windows serial number even with a retail disc, provided it's the exact same version of Windows.)

Honestly, though, if your laptop is new enough, my advice is to return it to the store for a refund and get something that doesn't have firmware that can cause the computer to brick itself when you do legitimate things with it.

Oh, and using a VM might help, but it's not a solution; the Samsung firmware bug can be triggered in Windows. Unless and until somebody (probably Samsung) issues a fixed firmware for those machines, using them in EFI mode in any OS is playing Russian Roulette with the computer.

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#4 2013-02-24 20:08:06

darkreaper476
Member
Registered: 2010-05-17
Posts: 98

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

Wow... Again treated like I didn't research first. Look, I got the best bang for my buck on this device. You try to find a 3rd gen i7 + 8GBs of 1600MHz ram + optimus GT640m for less than a $1000 in a USA.... It wont happen, I needed a computer, I bought one, get over it.

I have installed Arch more times than I can count, alone and dual boot. I have never installed it on anything with UEFI, telling me to just read the wiki, which I have extensively, wont help. I actually have attempted to install Arch on a virtual machine via UEFI, BUT there are limitations and problems that arose that don't correlate with actual hardware, plus it wasn't dual boot.

Again, if I had a win8 disc I would worry so much about the UEFI thing.... Computers don't come with OS disc's any more and win8 doesn't use a "key" that's on the bottom of the machine, that's the whole reason for secure boot and UEFI........ If you have any real incite that can ease my mind about going at this please post, if not then don't. I love Arch and I love my laptop, I want them both with out destroying my computer.


I am opposed to millionaires, but it would be dangerous to offer me the position. -Mark Twain

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#5 2013-02-24 21:18:05

srs5694
Member
From: Woonsocket, RI
Registered: 2012-11-06
Posts: 719
Website

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

darkreaper476 wrote:

Wow... Again treated like I didn't research first.

I can't speak for DSpider, but I'm not psychic. I just presented the best advice I could given what you wrote and what I know.

Look, I got the best bang for my buck on this device. You try to find a 3rd gen i7 + 8GBs of 1600MHz ram + optimus GT640m for less than a $1000 in a USA.... It wont happen, I needed a computer, I bought one, get over it.

"Bargains" are often sub-standard in quality. Get over it.

Computers don't come with OS disc's any more and win8 doesn't use a "key" that's on the bottom of the machine,

A quick Google on '"Windows 8" "serial number"' turns up a number of links that clearly contradict the claim that there's no Windows 8 serial number:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt … Ag&dur=678
http://www.cerneaworld.com/2012/10/tuto … ows-8.html
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/wind … 227a78993c

If you don't see a serial number on a sticker on the bottom of your computer, that just means that Samsung isn't printing up such stickers. Chances are the OS still has an associated serial number that you could find in an information screen somewhere. I don't have a Windows 8 installation handy to try to track down the relevant screen, though.

that's the whole reason for secure boot and UEFI........

No it's not. The main point of UEFI is to replace the 30-year-old BIOS firmware, which is aging and becoming increasingly awkward with modern hardware. The whole point of Secure Boot is to make it harder for pre-boot malware to install itself into the boot process. Neither has much, if anything, to do with validating that you're running a non-pirated copy of Windows. Secure Boot might stop a piracy-enabling boot loader that bypasses later serial number checks from running, but there are too many other ways for pirates to work around such checks for Secure Boot to have any meaningful impact on that detail. For instance, pirates could simply disable Secure Boot. Thus, the claim that Secure Boot is an anti-piracy measure is just plain wrong.

If you have any real incite that can ease my mind about going at this please post, if not then don't. I love Arch and I love my laptop, I want them both with out destroying my computer.

Then switch to a BIOS-mode boot of both OSes.

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#6 2013-02-24 21:59:48

darkreaper476
Member
Registered: 2010-05-17
Posts: 98

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

Thank you. I have read that you can get the serial before, I still don't have a disk, I don't want to illegally download one either. Sorry I didn't go into the explicit detail on the advantages and disadvantages of UEFI and secure boot, I didn't find it necessary.

"sub-standard in quality."   ?? This is the best laptop I have ever had, Samsung really did a nice job.... I'm not rich and have never had top notch machine like this. I did read that it had linux issues before I bought it but trusted I can go the great linux community for help.....

If I read that if I switch to bios mode it wont boot. I'll try it for my self I suppose, then of course it wont boot at fast, I do enjoy the 7 second boot time in win 8 though. Worth the loss..

Thanks...

Edit, attempted to boot via bios, as expected win8 did not boot, obvious since its was set up for UEFI. Not sure how to convert it.

I know that arch can dual boot with UEFI, any one have any incite on keeping that samsung module off to prevent bricking? Again dual UEFI dual boot tips are welcome as well.

Last edited by darkreaper476 (2013-02-24 22:21:28)


I am opposed to millionaires, but it would be dangerous to offer me the position. -Mark Twain

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#7 2013-02-25 03:55:46

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,670

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

As srs5694 has explained, you cannot prevent bricking if you boot in UEFI mode even if you never install Linux at all because the firmware bug can be triggered in Windows. Hence the advice: If you really want to both keep the laptop and be sure you don't brick it, you have to switch to BIOS boot until Samsung issue a firmware fix. There is no other way to be sure.

Of course, that doesn't mean the bug *will* be triggered in your case. But you asked what you needed to do to protect the laptop and keep it and that's the only solution which people currently have. (Well, that I'm aware of. Samsung might be working on something, I suppose.)


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#8 2013-02-25 04:50:07

darkreaper476
Member
Registered: 2010-05-17
Posts: 98

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

Thanks, I have booted Linux mint live without bricking but it was via bios. Arch errors out so bad I can't even get to grub on the disc http://imgur.com/VYU7GPf  sorry for the bad quality, quick snap, not focused... hmm So what you guys are saying is that I would have to some how convert win8 to bios then dual boot traditionally..

I read that UEFI allows you to boot multiboot to both. As in UEFI has bios compatible boot, I can confirm that my "bios" has an option to boot both, its the only way can even boot into a cd of any kind.


I am opposed to millionaires, but it would be dangerous to offer me the position. -Mark Twain

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#9 2013-02-25 17:53:20

srs5694
Member
From: Woonsocket, RI
Registered: 2012-11-06
Posts: 719
Website

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

Darkreaper476, your screen shot clearly shows that you've gone well beyond GRUB -- those are kernel errors being reported, and before them, you even got a Linux login: prompt, so Linux has more-or-less fully booted and then hung. Unfortunately, I can't say what caused that hang, but you could try doing a Web search on 'Linux "machine check exception"', since that's the type of error you're seeing.

I'd say you're looking at an uphill battle, unfortunately. That's not uncommon with brand-new hardware. Problems along those lines seem to have subsided for the last few years, but they seem to have re-emerged recently. Broadly speaking, it's best not to buy the very "latest and greatest" hardware for Linux, since driver development in Linux lags behind by a few months.

Edit: Another thought: You may just want to install Linux in a virtual machine, at least for a while. Come back to it in, say, half a year. By that time, Samsung may have released a firmware update that will make it safe to boot in EFI mode, and Linux drivers will have had some time to catch up. If the machine bricks itself in the meantime, Samsung won't be able to claim it was Linux that did it, so you should still be eligible for a warranty repair.

Last edited by srs5694 (2013-02-25 17:56:05)

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#10 2013-02-25 19:51:29

swordfish
Member
Registered: 2012-01-14
Posts: 160

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

darkreaper476 wrote:

Arch errors out so bad I can't even get to grub on the disc http://imgur.com/VYU7GPf  sorry for the bad quality, quick snap, not focused... hmm

Well, is the screenshot taken from booting an Arch install media? Or have you already installed Arch?

Why I'm asking: You are booting Linux 3.6.4-1, but the core repository delivers Linux 3.7.9-2 and in testing you will find Linux 3.8-2.

So, maybe upgrading your kernel will help?!

Ah, and this might be affecting your laptop, too: http://mjanja.co.ke/2012/12/machine-che … uefi-boot/

Last edited by swordfish (2013-02-25 19:57:10)


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#11 2013-02-26 06:43:16

darkreaper476
Member
Registered: 2010-05-17
Posts: 98

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

Sorry long night, must have hit enter and forgot, it is indeed  an arch disc, its also a few moths old... Maybe I should try the latest. I have seen that post about the Samsung ultra book. Ya its a new laptop but it still doesn't have some unheard of 'Titan' mobile GPU or something. Plus it seems like arch is already killing off MBR... I have been reading every where that a work around has been added to the kernel tree for Samsungs, and you are right about the warranty, plus I bought a year of physical protection at the retailer as well (oops iI dropped my laptop). If it bricks oh well, I've made back ups in preperation...


I am opposed to millionaires, but it would be dangerous to offer me the position. -Mark Twain

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#12 2013-02-26 17:36:55

srs5694
Member
From: Woonsocket, RI
Registered: 2012-11-06
Posts: 719
Website

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

darkreaper476 wrote:

Plus it seems like arch is already killing off MBR...

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The MBR partitioning system is likely to be supported for decades to come, although once EFI becomes the dominant firmware type, it's likely that most boot disks will use GPT. Given that some BIOSes have bugs that complicate using GPT on boot disks, it's unwise for any distribution to move to GPT as the default partitioning system for BIOS-based installs. (Fedora tried that with version 16, IIRC, and it blew up in their faces. They switched back to MBR as the default partitioning system on BIOS-based computers except for over-2TiB disks.)

I have been reading every where that a work around has been added to the kernel tree for Samsungs,

This workaround helps with the most common single cause of bricking these laptops, but that's not the only cause. It's even possible to brick these machines from Linux in other ways or even from Windows, as described here. Thus, unless and until a fixed firmware becomes available, you should not consider an EFI-mode boot of these computers to be safe, in any OS!

and you are right about the warranty, plus I bought a year of physical protection at the retailer as well (oops iI dropped my laptop). If it bricks oh well, I've made back ups in preperation...

These are good precautions; but everybody's heard horror stories about companies who find some technicality they can use to not honor their warranties. There may be fine print about running non-approved OSes or some such that they might use if they find Linux on the hard disk. Running Linux in a virtual machine will minimize the risk that they'll pull such shenanigans.

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#13 2013-02-26 21:25:18

darkreaper476
Member
Registered: 2010-05-17
Posts: 98

Re: Samsung UEFI dual boot [Solved]

I tried the latest installation media, same error. I have a few linux virtual machines, its just not the same.....

Thanks for the support, I'll try Mint as a last resort sad ............................... Can't wait to get Arch on this thing.


I am opposed to millionaires, but it would be dangerous to offer me the position. -Mark Twain

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