Arch GUI tools & prog. language

rasat · 2004-01-14 08:04:40

This is a continuation from topic:
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?t=2257

contrasutra wrote:

What's to stop us from porting the Mandrake or Redhat System tools?

rasat wrote:

I would like to have a choice to use GUI tools...
For my information, what language is easy to learn and makes nice GUI application?

farphel wrote:

If your end goal is to provide gui tools for Arch, then you need to first examine what languages/toolkits are included in 'base' so that your gui tools could be included in the mini-iso.....
If your guis are post-install, and you don't care if they were to make it into base/current, then the sky's the limit.

It would be interesting to know....
1. what system tools other distros are using.
2. what tools could be useful for Arch and also if possible to modify if needed.

About programming language for Arch apps, in general, can it be said...
1. Shell Script for Arch CD installer
2. Curses and Tcl/Tk for base
3. Any language for post-install

About Python, is it possible to run a "stand alone" application without installing the python package? .... to develop apps to include the reguired python files and libs.

RdsArts · 2004-01-14 17:10:18

Python is a byte-code language, you can't compile it into a stand-alone app yet AFAIK. (I know there was some mutterings of something like that happening, though)

It's great for writting GUI apps, has bindings for GTK+2 and QT/KDE, and can live beside C code very well.

As for a base-install, I believe the CD installs ncurses. But honestly, why worry about that? Whatever you write is just a quick pacman -S away from pulling all it's deps, and it's all in the install media's hands before that. But I know almost for certain Tk is not in the "base" install.

rasat · 2004-01-14 19:59:24

RdsArts wrote:

Python is a byte-code language...
It's great for writting GUI apps, has bindings for GTK+2 and QT/KDE, and can live beside C code very well.

I downloaded and compiled wxPython.... the language is nice and the out put looks good.
http://wxpython.org/
http://wxpython.org/tut-part1.php

wxPython download site:
http://unc.dl.sourceforge.net/sourcefor … 2.4.tar.gz

# tar -xvzf wxPythonSrc-2.4.2.4.tar.gz
# cd wxPythonSrc-2.4.2.4.tar.gz
# ./configure --with-gtk --prefix=/usr
# make
# make install

Edit setup.py
# cd wxPython
BUILD_GLCANVAS = 0 # If true, build the contrib/glcanvas extension module
BUILD_OGL = 0 # If true, build the contrib/ogl extension moduleCompile setup.py module:

# python setup.py build
# python setup.py install

Create a symbolic link to the library:

# cd /usr/lib
# ln -s /usr/local/lib/libwx_gtk.so

Check if the module works:

[root@localhost root]# python
Python 2.3.3 (#9, Dec 20 2003, 03:33:45)
[GCC 3.3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from wxPython.wx import *
>>>

http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/Getting_20Started

sarah31 · 2004-01-14 20:10:34

wxpython is in the repos...has been for a long time now

rasat · 2004-01-14 20:54:30

sarah31 wrote:

wxpython is in the repos...has been for a long time now

My bash history shows "pacman -S wxPython", with capital "P"... I waisted my time .

Do you know if the setup.py module is compiled in the package?

sarah31 · 2004-01-14 20:56:44

oops...well it never hurts to roll your own sometimes even if it ends out being a wasted effort

Xentac · 2004-01-15 01:35:24

Just curious, what do you need the setup module for? Usually setup.py is for building and installing a package's modules (much like Makefiles). They usually use distutils to do it.

rasat · 2004-01-15 07:28:47

Xentac wrote:

Just curious, what do you need the setup module for?

I noticed when compiling manually, wxPython includes several pre-made modules (scripts). The setup.py compiles these modules. To test if the modules are installed, run:

[root@localhost root]# python
Python 2.3.3 (#9, Dec 20 2003, 03:33:45)
[GCC 3.3.2] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from wxPython.wx import *
>>>

I removed my compiled version and installed the AL's wxPython package. Did the module test and works fine.

<b>Question:</b>
1. AL's wxPython is depended on wxGTK, for what purpose? In my compiled wxPython, I didn't install wxGTK.

RdsArts wrote:

Python is a byte-code language, you can't compile it into a stand-alone app yet AFAIK.

2. Would it be possible to make one "mini" Python package for running Py apps only? Why I am asking, its not "fair" to ask users to install the 7.2MB Python package just for the sake of running an Py application e.g. 100KB.

RdsArts · 2004-01-15 10:49:14

rasat wrote:

1. AL's wxPython is depended on wxGTK, for what purpose? In my compiled wxPython, I didn't install wxGTK.

AFAIK, wxPython only requires GTK+ 1 and it's dependancies. wxGTK shouldn't be needed.

rasat wrote:

RdsArts wrote:
Python is a byte-code language, you can't compile it into a stand-alone app yet AFAIK.
2. Would it be possible to make one "mini" Python package for running Py apps only? Why I am asking, its not "fair" to ask users to install the 7.2MB Python package just for the sake of running an Py application e.g. 100KB.

Maybe, but I doubt it. AFAIK, most of what you'd "cut" would be modules which other programs need. There are some demo programs, but I can't imagine that they take up more then 500K.

Plus, if your doing a GUI, your going to pull large dependancies anyway.

rds@hpavil
(/var/cache/pacman/pkg)
05:29 AM - $> ls -l glib-1.2.10-3.pkg.tar.gz glib2-2.2.3-1.pkg.tar.gz gtk-1.2.10
-3.pkg.tar.gz gtk2-2.2.4-1.pkg.tar.gz pygtk-2.0.0-2.pkg.tar.gz kdelibs-3.1.4-1.pkg.tar.gz qt-3.2.3-1.pkg.tar.gz 
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         181K Jan  1 21:20 glib-1.2.10-3.pkg.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         883K Jan  1 21:19 glib2-2.2.3-1.pkg.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         1.6M Jan  2 16:19 gtk-1.2.10-3.pkg.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         4.3M Jan  1 21:19 gtk2-2.2.4-1.pkg.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root          15M Jan 15 03:30 kdelibs-3.1.4-1.pkg.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         561K Jan  1 21:23 pygtk-2.0.0-2.pkg.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root          15M Jan 15 03:28 qt-3.2.3-1.pkg.tar.gz
rds@hpavil
(/var/cache/pacman/pkg)
05:29 AM - $>

Both GTK+ 2 and QT are rather "beefy" as-is. And we're not even going to talk about KDElibs. Compared to 15M for QT proper, 7M for Python isn't exactly massive.

Also, if someone's going for a GUI, they'll most likely have GTK+2 or KDE already installed, and thus it'd make Python's size small in comparison. Compare 7M for Python to XFree at ~54M, most of which IIRC is taken up in drivers and locale files which most users will never use, and it's not even close to being the largest dependancy.

Plus, with Python you gain the benefits of more stable code that can be developed in a very fast manner. It's fairly hard, IMHO, to quantify that and judge it against the relatively small size of the Python package proper.

Besides, if more people would start using Python (like they should ) installing it "for one app" would be mitigated.

*/rant*

rasat · 2004-01-15 13:53:48

RdsArts wrote:

Besides, if more people would start using Python (like they should ) installing it "for one app" would be mitigated.

Thanks RdsArts for your input on this topic. Your last point brings us to the question: "what kind of tools / apps the Archers would like to have". Its related to my first questions.

rasat wrote:

It would be interesting to know....
1. what system tools other distros are using.
2. what tools could be useful for Arch and also if possible to modify if needed.

PS.
If I remember correctly, somewhere on this forum there is one "wish list" topic??.

rasat · 2004-01-15 18:29:08

Here is a link about stand alone Python apps (Windows and Linux)... "cx_Freeze turns a Python script into a binary file and any referenced binary modules":
http://wiki.wxpython.org/index.cgi/Crea … xecutables

Arch Linux

#1 2004-01-14 08:04:40

Arch GUI tools & prog. language

#2 2004-01-14 17:10:18

Re: Arch GUI tools & prog. language

#3 2004-01-14 19:59:24

Re: Arch GUI tools & prog. language

#4 2004-01-14 20:10:34

Re: Arch GUI tools & prog. language

#5 2004-01-14 20:54:30

Re: Arch GUI tools & prog. language

#6 2004-01-14 20:56:44

Re: Arch GUI tools & prog. language

#7 2004-01-15 01:35:24

Re: Arch GUI tools & prog. language

#8 2004-01-15 07:28:47

Re: Arch GUI tools & prog. language

#9 2004-01-15 10:49:14

Re: Arch GUI tools & prog. language

#10 2004-01-15 13:53:48

Re: Arch GUI tools & prog. language

#11 2004-01-15 18:29:08

Re: Arch GUI tools & prog. language

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