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#51 2013-03-31 19:50:48

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,662

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

That doesn't sound like the same issue. I don't really use the trackpoint but it always seems to work. Plus, this stuttering is pre-post. It is literally like a car trying to start but never "catching" and it is more common on reboot than cold boot although it can happen either way. If it were not for the fact that I know nothing about these things, I'd guess it is power related somehow. But I won't because I don't.

But thanks for the suggestion. I get the problem even if I'm nowhere near the laptop let alone touching the touchpad, unfortunately.


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#52 2013-03-31 20:07:33

WonderWoofy
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From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

The reason the trackpoint always works (at least when you can get it to boot) is because it, and the keyboard are actually plugged into PS/2 ports on Thinkpads.  The i8042 stuff is actually compiled into the kernel (which is what drives the keyboard and trackpoint).  This is why you don't need to use the keyboard mkinitpcio hook with a thinkpad while using encryption.

I know this doesn't help solve your problem, but just thought I would mention it.

Honestly, at this point I would call Lenovo, and whine and bitch and moan about how terrible the machine and the problems you are having warrants a replacement of the machine.  Because even though the problems do not occur when they have the machine, I am pretty certain you are not making them up, and with the machine in that state, it really doesn't stand up to their reputation of reliability.  You really just need to become that horrible customer that nobody wants to be... unfortunately.

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#53 2013-03-31 20:48:30

cfr
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From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,662

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

I think you're right. I need to call them again. Probably the local people who actually act like human beings. At least, try them first. I'm pretty sure this is hardware. It would be pretty bizarre if not as I can't find anybody else with the same issues and I'm hardly the only one running Linux on this machine!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Why can't Lenovo just develop a decent customer service department rather than forcing everybody to play such a time-consuming and frustrating game? They're worse than Apple and I didn't think much of Apple either. (But Apple's hardware seems more reliable.)


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Arch Linux | x86_64 | GPT | EFI boot | grub2 | systemd | LVM2 on LUKS
Lenovo x121e | Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz GenuineIntel | Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 | US keyboard with Euro | 320G 7200 RPM Seagate HDD

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#54 2013-04-01 00:59:53

WonderWoofy
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From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

Interestingly, you are definitely not the only one who I have heard of who has had such awful times with Lenovo's customer service.  But my experiences have been pretty damn good.  I don't know if I've just been lucky or the nature of my problems have been such that there were no other options but to help me.  But the first time, was for a new battery because of what ended up being a firmware bug that stops the battery from fully charging if rebooted too quickly (I figured out how to fix it when it happens and definitely was not the battery), the second was because one of my chargers stopped working (after I got the new one and actually compared the FRUs, I think it was actually the old one from a different machine that stopped working, whoops), and the third time was the motherboard completely dying... no POST.

The last time though, I had to ship the machine back.  I have heard of people having to wait two weeks for this.  But I got the box to overnight my machine on Tuesday, shipped it that same day, and got it back on Thursday morning.  It was actually unbelievably fast.

Regarding your machine, you are certainly the one one I have heard of who has such extensive problems.  And now it sounds like you have more than one.  The shutdown thing you have been talking about for a while, and the funky ass firmware with the bluetooth, that same firmware that is picky with the UEFI/bios/GPT/MBR combos, and now with sometimes not even completing POST.  That is not good.

To me, since you have paid for the extended warranty, and they seem somehow not know that, you should throw wild accusations of them blatantly stealing from you, and yell at them about owing you additional support time for the time in which you were not able to get it.  You definitely need to make an (over the phone) scene... if the local people can't help you further.

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#55 2013-04-01 13:50:07

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,662

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

Maybe it varies by country? Perhaps they just suck in Europe!

Anyway, I'll try to find time to have a go tomorrow. Today's a bank holiday so I can't do anything today.


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#56 2013-04-01 22:01:52

cfr
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From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,662

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

brebs wrote:
cfr wrote:

There is no occurrence of hpet in the output of journalctl -b after the switch to tsc.

Look *before* also. If you have e.g. "ACPI: HPET id:", then that's bad, if you're doing my test.

Just change your bootup commandline, and reboot, and see if the laptop's more stable. Too much chatter.

So I'm currently booted with hpet=disable to test but I *still* get "ACPI: HPET id" in the journal:

Ebr 01 19:28:58 MyComputer kernel: ACPI: HPET 00000000bafea000 00038 (v01 LENOVO TP-8Q    00001160 PTL  00000002)
Ebr 01 19:28:58 MyComputer kernel: ACPI: HPET id: 0x8086a301 base: 0xfed00000
Ebr 01 19:28:58 MyComputer kernel: hpet_acpi_add: no address or irqs in _CRS

That is, it has made a difference because I don't get a clockevent etc. but if the id alone indicates it isn't properly disabled, then hpet=disable alone doesn't seem to be cutting it.

I'm pretty sure there's a hardware issue but I've lost work twice today and I figured I'd try something just to try to reduce the symptoms...

EDIT: Certainly didn't work anyway... Trying the LTS kernel just for kicks really.

Last edited by cfr (2013-04-01 23:31:34)


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Arch Linux | x86_64 | GPT | EFI boot | grub2 | systemd | LVM2 on LUKS
Lenovo x121e | Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz GenuineIntel | Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 | US keyboard with Euro | 320G 7200 RPM Seagate HDD

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#57 2013-04-02 00:20:57

brebs
Member
Registered: 2007-04-03
Posts: 3,444

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

cfr wrote:

So I'm currently booted with hpet=disable to test but I *still* get "ACPI: HPET id" in the journal

Yeah, me too, but it doesn't matter - hpet gets recognized but not used, so no problem. I know if/when hpet is used, because I get the occasional pause.

Anyway, your laptop has a hardware problem, send it back wink

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#58 2013-04-02 23:35:07

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,662

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

Lenovo are finally taking a look. Of course, it behaved perfectly in their presence which more-or-less left me standing there saying "But there really is something seriously wrong with it. Honest." Also, I forgot the LTS kernel doesn't shutdown cleanly so I had to explain that really was a software thing. Grrrr....

Anyway, I hope they take a look and don't wipe my hard drive. (This would not be the end of the world but would be very aggravating.)


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Arch Linux | x86_64 | GPT | EFI boot | grub2 | systemd | LVM2 on LUKS
Lenovo x121e | Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz GenuineIntel | Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 | US keyboard with Euro | 320G 7200 RPM Seagate HDD

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#59 2013-04-02 23:38:08

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

cfr wrote:

Lenovo are finally taking a look. Of course, it behaved perfectly in their presence which more-or-less left me standing there saying "But there really is something seriously wrong with it. Honest." Also, I forgot the LTS kernel doesn't shutdown cleanly so I had to explain that really was a software thing. Grrrr....

Anyway, I hope they take a look and don't wipe my hard drive. (This would not be the end of the world but would be very aggravating.)

I am glad to hear that you are at least making some headway with Lenovo.  I think that is how things always are... it is like your computer knows when you take it to a technician, so it behaves in an attempt to make you look like an ass.  It really is unfortunate that these shutdowns are indeed so random...

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#60 2013-04-02 23:51:47

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,662

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

It even rebooted perfectly - it almost never does that for me now. Anyway, they are at least having a look which is something.

When I called them, they said something about ordering parts and that they would call. 10 days later, nothing. When I call, they say they can come next week (more than 2 weeks after my initial call) and then look and then maybe order parts. This is next business day onsite support? In the end I took the damn thing to them but am not very happy because I don't drive and the person I bugged for a lift is not well and not at all happy about it. Grrr...


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Arch Linux | x86_64 | GPT | EFI boot | grub2 | systemd | LVM2 on LUKS
Lenovo x121e | Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz GenuineIntel | Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 | US keyboard with Euro | 320G 7200 RPM Seagate HDD

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#61 2013-04-03 00:03:20

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

Despite the fact that my personal experiences with Lenovo customer support have been good, a family member had to have on-site support from them just last week.  It was a desktop machine that is about two months old, and the mobo and power supply are suddenly fried.  It was doing some crazy sh*t.  The part that confuses me though is that with 24 hour on-site support, the guy actually got out there the "next" day but only had a power supply.  He said that the motherboard would have to be ordered, was probably on backorder, and would take a week or possibly more. How can you not stock those kinds of parts?  I don't get it.

*I use quotes around "next" because they were contacted Monday night and said they would be there Wednesday because calling after they closed technically counted as the next business day.  I don't understand why they call it 24 hour on-site support then, if it is really "next business day support".  And what happens on weekends, is it 24 hours after the next open Monday?

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#62 2013-04-04 02:06:18

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,662

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

Well, they cannot reproduce the issue so they said they will give it a new mother board and hope that fixes it. Apparently some other x121e machines they've seen recently have had power issues which required new mother boards so they are hoping this problem is related.


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Arch Linux | x86_64 | GPT | EFI boot | grub2 | systemd | LVM2 on LUKS
Lenovo x121e | Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz GenuineIntel | Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 | US keyboard with Euro | 320G 7200 RPM Seagate HDD

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#63 2013-04-04 03:21:09

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

Bad ass!  That is real progress there.  I'm glad to hear it Clea!

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#64 2013-04-13 23:39:33

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,662

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

Tentatively assuming I needed a new motherboard since so far, so good... smile

[rant]
Lenovo still suck, though. Apart from anything else, I had to make two trips to them despite having an on-site next-business-day warranty, they did bugger all for over a week as they didn't have a driver (they told me they were ordering parts which seemed weird without seeing the machine but still), then they failed to set the model and serial number correctly so I got errors every boot after updating BIOS and then they tried to make me go to them again so they could avoid coming on-site to fix it. And these are the local people who are almost infinitely better than the centralised Lenovo lot.
[/rant]

Last edited by cfr (2013-04-13 23:39:52)


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Arch Linux | x86_64 | GPT | EFI boot | grub2 | systemd | LVM2 on LUKS
Lenovo x121e | Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz GenuineIntel | Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 | US keyboard with Euro | 320G 7200 RPM Seagate HDD

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#65 2013-04-14 00:33:43

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

I'm glad to hear that the machine is seemingly better.   Though it does sound like you had to jump through some hoops to get the proper fix (hoops which were covered in dog shit... and on fire... with bears on the other side).

I really fail to understand how they could even think it was the right thing to ask you, the customer with 24-hour on-site service, to come to them. 

In any case, I hope this is the fix you have been waiting for!

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#66 2013-04-14 02:28:46

cfr
Member
From: Cymru
Registered: 2011-11-27
Posts: 5,662

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

Thank you! I really hope so, too smile. I'm not sure I can take much more of Lenovo's version of customer service.

Hasn't fixed the rEFInd/EFI stub loader bug for me, though. The BIOS update got me bluetooth again but didn't affect the boot bug. Still, at least it *does* boot. Indeed, at least it switches on. In fact, it even reboots now which is somewhat amazing. (I thought maybe this was some Linux thing...)

Last edited by cfr (2013-04-14 02:29:52)


How To Ask Questions The Smart Way | Help Vampires

Arch Linux | x86_64 | GPT | EFI boot | grub2 | systemd | LVM2 on LUKS
Lenovo x121e | Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2367M CPU @ 1.40GHz GenuineIntel | Intel Centrino Wireless-N 1000 | US keyboard with Euro | 320G 7200 RPM Seagate HDD

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#67 2013-04-15 04:52:20

WonderWoofy
Member
From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: [solved?] possible reasons for random shutdowns

From all of what you have told about your bluetooth troubles, those things sound like a bios bug.  As far as the reboot thing, though yours was incredibly consistent, that is not totally surprising as my machine did the opposite for a while, and magically fixed itself (it would not shutdown, but rebooted instead).

The rEFInd thing, I think is actually a product of massive changes in the efistub kernel code, as I know that it was revamped significantly only recently (and when the troubles started).

In any case, I will keep the fingers crossed for you smile

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