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#1 2013-05-06 14:11:12

r0b0t
Member
From: /tmp
Registered: 2009-05-24
Posts: 342

Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Hi guys,

there are alot of topics around about FAN noisy, CPU melting, etc , sometimes the reason is "hybrid graphics" and sometimes the cause is unknown, I saw on other topics "tricks on how to control the FAN" which shouldn't be used as the FAN is just trying to do what is supposed to do, when the CPU temperature get's high he also is actioned in order to cool it down.

In any case, after a lot of tricks, like

1) using laptop-mode tools,
2) switching one of the Graphics card off via acpi_call ,
3) modifying the CPU frequency with cpupower (to as lower as possible)
4) tunning graphic card options (drivers)

and yet after all this tunning, the max you can get it's a 50°C with few applications open (no CPU consuming Job's).
From the other part, on windows, there are a lot more processes using a lot more resources but yet it's more "healthy" for the CPU and the motherboard.

Now don't get me wrong smile , I'm not trying to get a comparing between the 2, but I'm interested in your opinion about this behaviour and what could be the fault or the difference, maybe it's the kernel or a patch or something else?

Any thoughts are welcome with also additional information or correcting mine.

Happy talk.

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#2 2013-05-06 14:33:17

demize
IRC Op
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Registered: 2012-10-23
Posts: 19
Website

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Are you sure you're comparing the temperatures from the same thermometers? There are generally several.

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#3 2013-05-06 14:43:22

Trilby
Forum Moderator
From: Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 13,699
Website

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

50C is too high??  At idle my machine is in the low to mid 50s.  The fan doesn't even start on low speed until around close to 60, and critical temps at which the computer will shut off are 95-100C.


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#4 2013-05-06 14:54:08

r0b0t
Member
From: /tmp
Registered: 2009-05-24
Posts: 342

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Based on the information I have, all softwares use the same hardware controllers in disposition of the Laptop/PC to determine the temperature (so they use the same sensor for the CPU , 1 for the GPU if it have it, 1 for the motherboard etc), and I use sensors on Linux and I don't remember the last on windows but was pretty reliable.

the one on arch
coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Physical id 0:  +51.0 C  (high = +86.0 C, crit = +100.0 C)
Core 0:         +48.0 C  (high = +86.0 C, crit = +100.0 C)
Core 1:         +51.0 C  (high = +86.0 C, crit = +100.0 C)

Based also on what I read on this forum and others, it's a very common experience from users to have the same impression, although you can try triggering the FAN on both, it takes nothing on Arch to get it running [just do a kernel upgrade]  (it means that the temperature is more than 55°C) but on windows it's a different story, normally it takes a bad written game with full 3D graphic effects and stuff to get it in shape wink

However a research could easely tell that it's a wide spread behaviour, gentoo, ubuntu, vector linux, mint, etc, etc.. I remember also seeing a kernel bug on the topic but it seems:
# uname -r
3.8.11-1-ARCH
not yet fixed...

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#5 2013-05-06 14:55:50

r0b0t
Member
From: /tmp
Registered: 2009-05-24
Posts: 342

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Trilby wrote:

50C is too high??  At idle my machine is in the low to mid 50s.  The fan doesn't even start on low speed until around close to 60, and critical temps at which the computer will shut off are 95-100C.

I'm not saying it's too high, I'm just asking for opinions of why on windows is 10°C lower and there is allot more running, you can personaly check.

Last edited by r0b0t (2013-05-06 15:03:08)

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#6 2013-05-06 15:28:51

t0m5k1
Member
From: overthere
Registered: 2012-02-10
Posts: 302

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

In my experience it the other way round:
3.8.10-1-ARCH
AMD Athlon(tm) 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+ @ 2357.121
k8temp-pci-00c3
Adapter: PCI adapter
Core0 Temp:   +50.0°C 
Core1 Temp:   +49.0°C


Optiplex 790, Intel Core i3-2100 CPU @ 3.10GHz 16Mb Corsair Vengeance 1333Mhz - GeForce 970 - AwesomeWM (occasionally XFCE, i3)

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#7 2013-05-06 16:02:18

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,178

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

You need to do more comparison. Compare the CPU load. Compare the time and speed the fan is running at.

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#8 2013-05-06 16:23:12

nomorewindows
Member
Registered: 2010-04-03
Posts: 2,978

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Comparing windows and arch is really not a good comparison.  Comparing another distro with arch, will come closer, but still difficult to compare even then.


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#9 2013-05-07 16:49:09

r0b0t
Member
From: /tmp
Registered: 2009-05-24
Posts: 342

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Actually I'm quite impressed, I don't know the reason but when I retested they ran at the same temperature, although windows was updating and had a lot of work (every program was updating because I didn't start it from a long time and the antivirus begin scanning) however the last test which I did months ago turned up showing windows running around 40° and arch running around 50° .

However I will test it again as I started windows immediately after turning off from Arch so teh heat was there and as we know the fan is not turned on for the temperature being around 50°.

I found however some bugs related to :
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42796
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52611
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=a … r_20&num=2
https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=55691

and many mores, so for sure there is something wrong you also I think have noticed these bugs.

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#10 2013-05-07 20:25:58

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 4,178

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

nomorewindows wrote:

Comparing windows and arch is really not a good comparison.  Comparing another distro with arch, will come closer, but still difficult to compare even then.

The comparison is valid in this case. Looking at the people to your left and right is not always enough to find your own flaws. Sometimes you need to travel abroad to see what you should like about yourself and what needs to be improved.

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#11 2013-05-07 21:24:08

Silex89
Member
From: Osorno, Los Lagos - Chile
Registered: 2011-10-16
Posts: 178
Website

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Hi there smile

I had the same issues when using open source drivers for my Graphics Card (an AMD Radeon HD 6320). When I switched to Catalyst (AMD's binary blob) the T° dropped significantly, saving a lot of power and cooling down my entire system... Working like a charm and reasonably cooler than Win7

Maybe you could try the proprietary drivers for your graphics card to check out the temperature if you haven't done it already. At least, it worked for me.

Best of Luck big_smile


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#12 2013-05-08 12:12:18

r0b0t
Member
From: /tmp
Registered: 2009-05-24
Posts: 342

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Silex89 wrote:

Hi there smile

I had the same issues when using open source drivers for my Graphics Card (an AMD Radeon HD 6320). When I switched to Catalyst (AMD's binary blob) the T° dropped significantly, saving a lot of power and cooling down my entire system... Working like a charm and reasonably cooler than Win7

Maybe you could try the proprietary drivers for your graphics card to check out the temperature if you haven't done it already. At least, it worked for me.

Best of Luck big_smile


Hi,

yes actually I was thinking of that, but actually although my dual card

$ lspci | grep -i vga
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Caicos [Radeon HD 6400M/7400M Series] (rev ff)

I disable via acpi_call radeon during boot, so practically it's not used (at least I think so:)

echo '\_SB.PCI0.PEG0.PEGP._OFF' > /proc/acpi/call  --->> this is in startup script
]$ cat /proc/acpi/wakeup | grep -i peg
PEG0	  S4	*disabled  pci:0000:00:01.0
PEGP	  S4	*disabled  pci:0000:01:00.0

So practically it says disabled, I'm not sure however as I'm convinced that there is a big lack on hybrid card support and not being able to use the ATI card anymore that's another trail.

but what do you think, I should be ok by not using it, as suppositly it's "disabled" correct? [What I mean is, as the hardware is disabled by acpi_call the driver shouldn't make a difference, is this correct?]

Thanks.

Last edited by r0b0t (2013-05-08 12:17:50)

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#13 2013-05-16 01:56:38

nuc
Member
Registered: 2012-04-26
Posts: 115

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

I am also experiencing this. Arch is AT LEAST 10C higher than Windows on my Laptop (I can also feel the heat, so it's not the sensors fault)!

If you use Intel, could you try if this helps https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/thermald-git/
see http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n … px=MTM2OTk and https://01.org/linux-thermal-daemon/doc … mal-daemon

Last edited by nuc (2013-05-16 01:57:39)

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#14 2013-05-16 21:15:48

MilenKid
Member
Registered: 2013-04-21
Posts: 86

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Yes, same here.

Every 5.0s: sensors                                                                                                                                                     Fri May 17 00:14:43 2013

radeon-pci-0100
Adapter: PCI adapter
temp1:        +78.0C

acpitz-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:         +0.0C  (crit = +127.0C)

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Physical id 0:  +96.0C  (high = +86.0C, crit = +100.0C)
Core 0:         +95.0C  (high = +86.0C, crit = +100.0C)
Core 1:         +96.0C  (high = +86.0C, crit = +100.0C)

I'm running a make (aur-firefox-kde-opensuse), started about 15 min ago.

willbill@Leny ~/.config/fontconfig $ uname -a
Linux Leny 3.9.2-2-ck #1 SMP PREEMPT Sun May 12 18:19:49 EDT 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux

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#15 2013-05-16 21:41:14

MilenKid
Member
Registered: 2013-04-21
Posts: 86

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Cool, just found something nice that seem to work.

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/thermald-git/

make and start as a service or like this to see what it does

 thermald --no-daemon --dbus-enable 

I'm still trying to figure out how to configure it.

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#16 2013-05-16 21:44:23

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 12,740

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

In very, very general terms.  (Did I mention very)

If a system is designed to allow for a 70C rise over ambient (100C-30C); and if the cooling system is designed for 70 W, that would equate to a thermal conductivity from the junctions in the processor to room ambient air of about 1 degree C/Watt. 

Using that thermal conductivity in a system where we are seeing a 10C additional rise means, in this contrived example, we about are talking on the very rough order of 10W additional.  The AMD 4200 mentioned is 89 W. 

So, does a 10 W delta make sense?  Does anyone want to run this past powertop to see if there is any correlation?

Last edited by ewaller (2013-05-16 21:45:23)


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#17 2013-05-16 22:13:29

MilenKid
Member
Registered: 2013-04-21
Posts: 86

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

MilenKid wrote:

Cool, just found something nice that seem to work.

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/thermald-git/

make and start as a service or like this to see what it does

 thermald --no-daemon --dbus-enable 

I'm still trying to figure out how to configure it.

I confirm that thermald with preventive fan start managed to keep temperature with 10-15 degrees lower.

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#18 2013-05-16 23:38:16

nuc
Member
Registered: 2012-04-26
Posts: 115

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

MilenKid wrote:
MilenKid wrote:

Cool, just found something nice that seem to work.

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/thermald-git/

make and start as a service or like this to see what it does

 thermald --no-daemon --dbus-enable 

I'm still trying to figure out how to configure it.

I confirm that thermald with preventive fan start managed to keep temperature with 10-15 degrees lower.

Nice. First you make it look like it's your own finding, and then you "confirm" on your own post. LOL.

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#19 2013-05-17 07:03:59

MilenKid
Member
Registered: 2013-04-21
Posts: 86

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Sorry, I really did not saw your post I was really tired yesterday.

Sincere apologies for this.

Confirmation was for the fact that running thermald really works. I did start two package building sessions, before thermald temperature would have gone around 95.

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#20 2013-05-23 08:07:19

JohnnyWho
Member
Registered: 2013-03-21
Posts: 20

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

My fan would not fire at all on kernel 3.8.* . On kernel 3.9 it is working!

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#21 2013-05-28 11:31:09

r0b0t
Member
From: /tmp
Registered: 2009-05-24
Posts: 342

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

In my view this is more related to the kernel itself more than to any distro,  the devels (not only of arch) should push this issue to the kernel devels and try find a solution as this creates a very bad experience for linux users especially if they don't know anything about this mervalous system.

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#22 2013-06-03 13:34:10

r0b0t
Member
From: /tmp
Registered: 2009-05-24
Posts: 342

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

with the last kernel it seems like gone:

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Physical id 0:  +45.0 C  (high = +86.0 C, crit = +100.0 C)
Core 0:         +45.0 C  (high = +86.0 C, crit = +100.0 C)
Core 1:         +45.0 C  (high = +86.0 C, crit = +100.0 C)

$ uname -r
3.9.4-1-ARCH

And I'm using right now the exact programs when the processor was almost burning some time ago..

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#23 2013-06-03 22:28:43

Argish
Member
Registered: 2012-07-04
Posts: 7

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

Really? I am also running 3.9.4.1 and I am still getting this:

Adapter: ISA adapter
Physical id 0:  +61.0°C  (high = +87.0°C, crit = +105.0°C)
Core 0:         +61.0°C  (high = +87.0°C, crit = +105.0°C)
Core 1:         +59.0°C  (high = +87.0°C, crit = +105.0°C)

radeon-pci-0100
Adapter: PCI adapter
temp1:        +58.0°C 

This is on a satellite L830 toshiba. It's much colder on windows I can notice it easily on the right side of the laptop.

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#24 2013-06-05 20:56:21

arch_gala
Member
Registered: 2011-03-23
Posts: 24

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

This means that Arch is 10 times more hotter (and sexier) than windows ! smile)

Now really, assuming you ran/run windows on the same machine, then it all depends on the software that is running under the OS. Use htop to get a glimpse of what is hogging the CPU.

Also, most default linux drivers don't do 3D too well because they do not have the hardware acceleration enabled (it is proprietary), this means that you CPU will take the load. Using Gnome 3 will definitely heat up your CPU.

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#25 2014-05-05 10:27:23

chickenPie4tea
Member
Registered: 2012-08-21
Posts: 287

Re: Arch running 10°C higher than Windows

to keep my laptop running cooler the best mod I made was physical
Don't try this if your laptop is still under guarantee!
anyway I did it after reading the post from this guy
http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=25201
It made a BIG difference for me.


You can like linux without becoming a fanatic!

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