Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

snack · 2013-07-08 19:40:07

Hi, I have an old Pentium 3 machine on which I run Arch. If I try to boot the current stock kernel (or the ck kernel) the system freezes at boot. The system is still responsive, I can login via ssh but the screen is freezed. I nailed down the problem to KMS: booting with the nomodeset kernel option solves the problem. I have no problem in booting the lts kernel with KMS enabled, so I guess something changed between kernel 3.0 and 3.9 in this regard. Is anyone with old hardware experiencing this as well? It's not a big deal since I can live with lts kernel or disable KMS, but nevertheless I'd like to understand and possibly fix it. I can provide more informations on demand (right now I don't know what might be useful).
Thanks

WonderWoofy · 2013-07-08 20:55:09

Since it is a KMS issue, I think a much more relevant bit of info to include would be your graphics hardware. But whatever it is, have you tried setting up early KMS. That is, adding the graphics module to the initramfs to be explicitly loaded?

snack · 2013-07-08 21:20:53

I have an old nvidia geforce 2 gts. The chipset is an i815 with integrated graphics, which in any case is disabled from the bios. I tried to unistall the nouveau driver thinking that the problem could stem from its loading but without success (the same module works fine with lts kernel, btw). I'll try with early start and report soon, thanks!

edit: I forgot to mention that the discrete vga is an AGP one.

Last edited by snack (2013-07-08 21:22:35)

snack · 2013-07-15 21:42:56

I tried with early KMS start following the instructions in the wiki. The only result is an early hang, just after the "running early hook [udev]" line output. Tested with stock 3.9.9 and ck 3.10.1.

snack · 2013-09-15 15:10:10

I did some other tests yesterday with the new kernel 3.11 (ck patchset). It still hangs, I tried to appnd the acpi=off option to kernel's command line. In this way the boot process ends without any problem, but then the X server does not start and in the log a message says that KMS is not enabled. Does KMS rely on acpi? Conversely, may my KMS problem be related to acpi?

graysky · 2013-09-15 15:23:20

Based on your original post, the ck1 patchset is not to blame. You can try the Arch kernel from [testing] and likely get the same result. Dunno what to suggest for you but wanted to clarify.

snack · 2013-09-15 15:47:01

graysky wrote:

Based on your original post, the ck1 patchset is not to blame. You can try the Arch kernel from [testing] and likely get the same result. Dunno what to suggest for you but wanted to clarify.

Yes, I know the problem is not the ck1 patchset. I used it just to test the kernel 3.11 since it is already available in the [repo-ck], and I felt it was correct to state it.

graysky · 2013-09-15 16:14:20

snack wrote:

graysky wrote:
Based on your original post, the ck1 patchset is not to blame. You can try the Arch kernel from [testing] and likely get the same result. Dunno what to suggest for you but wanted to clarify.
Yes, I know the problem is not the ck1 patchset. I used it just to test the kernel 3.11 since it is already available in the [repo-ck], and I felt it was correct to state it.

OK. Just wanted it make it clear to others not carefully reading this thread

Gooberslot · 2013-09-16 07:16:46

Hmm, I seem to remember having similar problems with a newer version of Parted Magic and my Geforce4. I never could solve it and just stuck with the older version. Under Arch I just used the proprietary drive with an old version of xorg.

straykat · 2013-09-16 10:51:21

snack,
From experience, I have found that trying to use Arch Linux (a leading edge OS) on very old hardware is like trying to plug all the holes in an old wooden leaky boat when all you have is composite materials. It becomes increasingly difficult to keep older hardware working when using leading edge software.

If you are happy to administrator the system using Arch then you may need to remain with linux-lts etc. The other problem I have run into is getting the older APG video cards to work & if you can get them working at a decent resolution getting them to render anything from a browser will bring the system to it's knees.

My suggestion is trying a few Linux systems that are purpose built to be used on older systems. You may even have some luck with "enterprise" OSs such as Scientific Linux or Centos as they use older kernels & software.

snack · 2013-09-16 12:00:40

@straykat: that's where the fun is...
I like messing with Arch, for me it's like a personal challenge to make it work on my ol' faithful. I would be happy with lts but there are plans to update it to 3.10 so at that point I would be unable to use nouveau. I could stick with nv without KMS but then the fun would be gone. I'll try bisecting the kernel releases to find at which point KMS got broken for my system...

straykat · 2013-09-16 23:26:48

snack, been there, done that, so I understand

With the change to 3.10 for linux-lts going into "core" (currently in "testing") have you had a look at AUR for an lts? Linux 3.4 LTS is maintained till October 2014.

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/?O=0&K=linux-lts34

Last edited by straykat (2013-09-16 23:29:11)

snack · 2013-09-17 06:57:42

@straykat: thanks man, but compiling a kernel with a P3 takes forever. I need binaries, but at least I'll give a shot to 3.4 from AUR to see if at that point KMS is already broken for my system. Sadly, the Arch Rollback Machine has been recently shut down so I can't retrieve the various versions of the linux package to see which release introduces the break. I might set up a 32 bit chroot on my newer 64 bit machine to try to cross-compile 32 bit kernels...

straykat · 2013-09-17 12:20:07

snack,
I don't know how it would work for a kernel, but have you given any thought to using rpmextract from extra on a Scientific Linux (6.4) kernel which is currently kernel-2.6.32-358.18.1.el6.i686.rpm?

You can find the rpm here: http://mirror.aarnet.edu.au/pub/scienti … /security/ or your local Scientific Linux repository. Centos of course also uses the same kernel.

Have never used rpmextract so have no idea how to turn a rpm into an Arch package, but it might be quicker than compiling a kernel on a P3.

snack · 2013-09-17 12:30:12

@straykat: kernel 2.6.32 is really old. 3.0 is almost dead in Arch, but rather than using SL6 kernel with a hackish install by rpmextract I'd rather turn off KMS and use the nv driver with the mainline Arch kernel. Or I could use 3.4 from AUR (if it works) and update it only rarely, when I can keep the PC up half a day to compile...

Last edited by snack (2013-09-17 12:30:25)

snack · 2013-09-19 22:54:33

I compiled kernel 3.4 using the linux-lts34 package from AUR (~7 hours!!). KMS works with this version, so the offending modification lies somewhere between 3.5 and 3.9. I'll post updates if I find something else relevant.

snack · 2013-10-02 22:52:02

linux 3.5.4 works, next I'll try with 3.6...

snack · 2013-10-09 22:16:08

I found that 3.6.9 works while 3.7.9 does not. I suppose that the problem has been introduced in the 3.7 kernel series, where some offending modification to KMS has been made. Does anybody know which KMS develpments were made between 3.6 and 3.7? Thanks

snack · 2013-10-12 15:08:34

Maybe some of the modifications described here broke my system. I suppose that no one tested the modification on super-vintage hardware like mine and that there are null chances for it to be fixed in the future...

Arch Linux

#1 2013-07-08 19:40:07

Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#2 2013-07-08 20:55:09

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#3 2013-07-08 21:20:53

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#4 2013-07-15 21:42:56

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#5 2013-09-15 15:10:10

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#6 2013-09-15 15:23:20

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#7 2013-09-15 15:47:01

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#8 2013-09-15 16:14:20

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#9 2013-09-16 07:16:46

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#10 2013-09-16 10:51:21

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#11 2013-09-16 12:00:40

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#12 2013-09-16 23:26:48

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#13 2013-09-17 06:57:42

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#14 2013-09-17 12:20:07

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#15 2013-09-17 12:30:12

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#16 2013-09-19 22:54:33

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#17 2013-10-02 22:52:02

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#18 2013-10-09 22:16:08

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

#19 2013-10-12 15:08:34

Re: Old P3 CPU hangs when starting KMS with stock and ck kernels

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