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#1 2013-08-03 12:30:29

blackout23
Member
Registered: 2011-11-16
Posts: 780

Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

Hello,

there is no technical reason for this proposal, which gives it slim chances of success I know. Since most Arch desktops don't need the "lsb-release" package, unless they have LXDE installed or one of the very few other programs that require it, you will be registered as "Linux (64-Bit)" in the Steam survey. See here:

http://i.imgur.com/Tx5C7Ai.png

The thing is that Arch Linux is actually the most popular non-Ubuntu distribution. Not to bad for a distro that doesn't even has popularity as its goal. It is even slightly more popular than Linux Mint. At least, when it comes to Linux users on Steam this seems to be the case.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

All other distros, Arch spinoffs and even Gentoo, seem to report the name of the distro. A few months ago the survey displayed all the small distros that make up the "Other" category.
http://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/s … stros.1845

I think it would be pretty cool to have Arch Linux recognized on the survey and make it stick out of the crowd. I kind of like it that Arch just claims to be plain "Linux (64-Bit)", tough which is also accurate.

So can we make everyone install  an extra 52,2 kb with the next -Syu?

Regards

Last edited by blackout23 (2013-08-03 13:51:31)

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#2 2013-08-03 13:10:59

tomk
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From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,838

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

Better idea IMO: a note on the Steam wiki page explaining all of the above, so users can decide for themselves. Or at a stretch, you might try persuading the Steam package maintainer to include it as an optional dep.

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#3 2013-08-03 13:18:54

lolilolicon
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Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 1,676

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

Oh, that reminds me... every time I start aegisub from terminal, it gives me this crap

$ aegisub-3.0  
sh: lsb_release: command not found
sh: lsb_release: command not found
sh: lsb_release: command not found
sh: lsb_release: command not found

Four times.
Now I know what this is: bullshit.
We already have /etc/{os,arch}-release, and a third one by a second package? I don't think so.


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#4 2013-08-03 13:50:31

blackout23
Member
Registered: 2011-11-16
Posts: 780

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

tomk wrote:

Better idea IMO: a note on the Steam wiki page explaining all of the above, so users can decide for themselves. Or at a stretch, you might try persuading the Steam package maintainer to include it as an optional dep.

Hard dependency might be better. Otherwise we'd have probably 50% of Steam clients identified as Linux (64-Bit) and 50% as Arch Linux 64-Bit and both would fall into the "Other" category.I think making it a dependency for Steam is the only clean way that can somehow be justified from a technical standpoint.

Last edited by blackout23 (2013-08-03 13:50:53)

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#5 2013-08-03 13:56:57

WonderWoofy
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From: Los Gatos, CA
Registered: 2012-05-19
Posts: 8,412

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

I think a feature request is in order here...

I personally thought at first that the Optional Dep route was the way to go, but if there would be negative consequences by not having it on every machine using steam, then a hard dep might be in order.  Still, I am not a steam user, so I cannnot contribute to this thread in any real depth.  I guess the user could always -Rdd, as it would seem that the package would still function without it.

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#6 2013-08-03 14:01:33

blackout23
Member
Registered: 2011-11-16
Posts: 780

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

WonderWoofy wrote:

I think a feature request is in order here...

I personally thought at first that the Optional Dep route was the way to go, but if there would be negative consequences by not having it on every machine using steam, then a hard dep might be in order.  Still, I am not a steam user, so I cannnot contribute to this thread in any real depth.  I guess the user could always -Rdd, as it would seem that the package would still function without it.

The question is if "Steam not being able to resolve the distro" means that Steam doesn't function. It really only depends on if you want to be recognized as an Arch users in the survey or not.

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#7 2013-08-03 14:01:56

Trilby
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From: Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 13,991
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Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

WonderWoofy wrote:

I guess the user could always -Rdd, as it would seem that the package would still function without it.

If that is the case, then it definitely shouldn't be a dependency - maybe an optional dependency only.

A package should not list dependencies that the program/tool does not actually require for the sole purpose of satisfying someone else's idea of what they should have installed ... even if I agree with that someone else's idea.

EDIT: tone is lost online, and this could be read as much more harsh than intended.  I'd be all for ecouraging everyone to install lsb_release.  But requiring it when it really isn't necessary for something to run properly just seems like a bad idea.

Last edited by Trilby (2013-08-03 14:03:31)


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#8 2013-08-03 14:14:31

WorMzy
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From: Scotland
Registered: 2010-06-16
Posts: 5,363

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

Would it not be a better idea to petition Steam to use os-release for their information, then fall back on lsb-release if it's not found?


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#9 2013-08-03 14:28:42

tomk
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From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,838

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

It's all relative. I don't care even slightly about Steam, and I care even less than that about Arch's popularity. So I'm going to stick with my "better idea". smile

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#10 2013-08-03 15:32:28

brebs
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Registered: 2007-04-03
Posts: 3,439

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

WorMzy wrote:

petition Steam to use os-release

That was done months ago.

Standards, eh! Who needs 'em?

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#11 2013-08-03 15:47:00

lolilolicon
Member
Registered: 2009-03-05
Posts: 1,676

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

Just happened to see the new lxsession 0.4.6.1-1 has dropped lsb-release from deps. About time, eh? ::poof::
Edit ...and it was a downgrade, NVM...

Last edited by lolilolicon (2013-08-03 15:59:59)


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#12 2013-08-08 23:11:50

GI Jack
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Registered: 2010-12-29
Posts: 85

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

they could always look at the kernel version with is 3.x.x-ARCH

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#13 2013-08-11 19:05:54

Arctus
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Registered: 2012-07-14
Posts: 85

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

That wouldn't make sense due to custom kernels, and os-release is a much more pretty solution anyway. Optional dependency with a note on the wiki seems like the logical choice to me.

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#14 2013-08-11 21:59:36

rufus
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From: san francisco
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 153

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

Im bugged by this notion of Arch being most popular.....
    just because it gets downloaded a lot doesnt make it popular Im petty sure many of those downloads dont go far
         people are curious and find its over their heads and theyre gone Im sure.....
  how can you poll what people actually use.....A= ya can't


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#15 2013-08-11 22:39:33

Trilby
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From: Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 2011-11-29
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Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

Rufus, how is that relevant to this discussion.  No one here is discussing counting how often arch isos are downloaded, but rather how often users who are running arch linux use steam.

Lsb-release is a way to poll what people actually use, unless they intentionally use falsified information.


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#16 2013-08-11 22:49:37

rufus
Banned
From: san francisco
Registered: 2013-04-20
Posts: 153

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

youre right Trilby it was a little off topic and it addressed the openng post late.....
    it just bugged me ,sorry


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     'the machine is not the end to the means., we are. In history, in board rooms and politic the greatest  decision and effort
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#17 2013-08-14 23:35:46

GI Jack
Member
Registered: 2010-12-29
Posts: 85

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

I like that lsb-release is optional, just like all branding is optional.

it makes Arch as generic as possible. Personally though, i do opt for the branding.

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#18 2013-08-15 00:40:20

Thaodan
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From: Dortmund, Nordrein-Westfalen
Registered: 2012-04-28
Posts: 439

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

GI Jack wrote:

I like that lsb-release is optional, just like all branding is optional.

it makes Arch as generic as possible. Personally though, i do opt for the branding.

Generic in technical part is good, for example when using KDE SC and don't want GNOME stuff.
But to wave the flag to identify the distribution, the people behind it and its community, is an other part.

Last edited by Thaodan (2013-08-15 00:40:44)


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#19 2013-08-20 20:09:52

andrekp
Member
Registered: 2012-06-07
Posts: 112

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

This is ALSO an issue for people who dual boot, and maintain grub from (for example) Ubuntu, rather than Arch.  (And if one does dual boot, there is no reason to have grub maintained from Arch, since the Arch entries won't change).

os-prober uses the existence of /etc/lsb-release to "find" other linux O/S's when it runs.  The advantage is that you don't have to mount anything - it will mount the fs and look for the file.

It is a common problem for people who dual boot to find that grub, running from Ubuntu, won't "find" Arch.  There are various ways to deal with the problem, but copying Ubuntu's lsb-release file into Arch/etc is a simple one and leaves everything running on automatic.  Presumably this file would be placed there by an actual install of lsb_release.  I was unaware that Steam also uses lsb_release.

While I applaud simplicity, I think there is a case to be made for this small inclusion in basic Arch: Other things use it (grub, Steam) and it is a continuing source of confusion and forum questions (there are two or three examples just on the front couple of pages of the Newbie forum as I write this - and usually are).  Having it installed by default will clear up a number of recurring technical issues for some users.  I think there's some value in that since it's a tiny and unobtrusive change.

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#20 2013-08-21 08:56:56

DarkCerberus
Member
From: /dev/null
Registered: 2011-12-31
Posts: 247

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

Why not just add "lsb-release" as a dependency to steam, then every installation of steam will install lsb-release automatically. It just seems silly to just add lsb-release as default in the installation iso all because of one software....

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#21 2013-08-21 21:23:54

GI Jack
Member
Registered: 2010-12-29
Posts: 85

Re: Making "lsb-release" part of every installation?

DarkCerberus wrote:

Why not just add "lsb-release" as a dependency to steam, then every installation of steam will install lsb-release automatically. It just seems silly to just add lsb-release as default in the installation iso all because of one software....

make it an opt-depend actually.

lsb-release: tell everyone yer usin ARCH!!!

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