You are not logged in.

#1 2013-10-19 22:55:22

Roberth
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2007-01-12
Posts: 888

Why wayland? from a users view

Hello

So far I have understood that wayland will replace x.org server as rendering protocol. I have understood that from a developers point of view, it is much simpler to maintain and relate to as an developer of the applications that speaks directly to the rendering protocol etc.... BUT....

What advantages does it present for the end user?

Last edited by Roberth (2013-10-19 23:02:21)


Use the Source, Luke!

Offline

#2 2013-10-20 03:51:44

Thorsten Reinbold
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2011-12-06
Posts: 314

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

I guess, this is the (imho good) question wayland development has startet with.

Last edited by Thorsten Reinbold (2013-10-20 14:32:48)

Offline

#3 2013-10-20 04:09:27

drcouzelis
Member
From: Connecticut, USA
Registered: 2009-11-09
Posts: 3,506
Website

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

You will never see "tearing" in Wayland, which means movement (such as moving a window) should look smoother.

Offline

#4 2013-10-20 04:16:15

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

Thorsten Reinbold wrote:

I guess, thies the (imho good) question wayland development has startet with.

Ummm ... What?

Offline

#5 2013-10-20 09:11:11

t0m5k1
Member
From: overthere
Registered: 2012-02-10
Posts: 308

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

karol wrote:
Thorsten Reinbold wrote:

I guess, thies the (imho good) question wayland development has startet with.

Ummm ... What?

agreed ...I re-read that sentence 10 times & still cannot work out what it is he is trying to say!


Optiplex 790, Intel Core i3-2100 CPU @ 3.10GHz 16Mb Corsair Vengeance 1333Mhz - GeForce 970 - AwesomeWM (occasionally XFCE, i3)

If everything in life was easy, we would learn nothing!
Linux User: 401820   Last FM

Offline

#6 2013-10-20 10:38:25

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 6,839

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

Sounds like 'this is the'


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

Offline

#7 2013-10-20 10:54:06

karol
Archivist
Registered: 2009-05-06
Posts: 25,431

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

ngoonee wrote:

Sounds like 'this is the'

If they started with "What advantages does Wayland present for the end user?", these goals (benefits for the user) don't seem to be listed anywhere.

Offline

#8 2013-10-20 11:51:43

Trent
Member
From: Baltimore, MD (US)
Registered: 2009-04-16
Posts: 987

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

Wayland isn't for the end user. End users aren't going to drive the switch; it's not like upgrading to Windows 8 -- you don't have to sell the product to end users who are buying it. The buyers are the developers who maintain distributions and write software. The fact that end users will get it too is a side effect.

Few end users care about Xorg. They care about applications like Facebook, Netflix, Steam, Minecraft, Skype, etc. but not about Mono, Flash, Java or any of those other technologies; they'll upgrade when the developers force them to.

I use my computer mostly for browsing the Web and the occasional game. Weston+X is too much hassle for me; that's why I use Arch to begin with -- it frees me to focus on stuff I do care about. But I look forward to using it when it matures a bit.

Last edited by Trent (2013-10-20 11:52:01)

Offline

#9 2013-10-20 13:55:31

Weegee
Member
Registered: 2010-08-06
Posts: 62

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

This was a Q&A thread on the Phoronix forums where users could bring up questions which were answered by Wayland developers. Might be an interesting read for some people.


~

Offline

#10 2013-10-21 02:03:13

Roberth
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2007-01-12
Posts: 888

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

The problem is that it takes care of the under the hood differences AFAIK.

drcouzelis wrote:

You will never see "tearing" in Wayland, which means movement (such as moving a window) should look smoother.

I though you would vsync to avoid that anyway?


Use the Source, Luke!

Offline

#11 2013-10-23 07:34:19

Giselher
Member
From: Austria
Registered: 2010-02-02
Posts: 150
Website

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

Roberth wrote:

The problem is that it takes care of the under the hood differences AFAIK.

drcouzelis wrote:

You will never see "tearing" in Wayland, which means movement (such as moving a window) should look smoother.

I though you would vsync to avoid that anyway?

You can't avoid tearing without a compositor. X11 just doesn't know about vsync and tearing.
I only use a compositor for watching videos (compton in my case), because without it watching videos is unbearable.

Offline

#12 2013-12-15 16:05:53

pjezek
Member
From: Praha - CZ
Registered: 2005-05-19
Posts: 77

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

Any user would benefit from simplicity and streamliness of Wayland in comparison with Xorg. Those more familiar with designed and being developed Wayland features can sipmply say how much space for data, processing time and power can be saved with Wayland applied instead Xorg. Tearing is really not an argument...

Last edited by pjezek (2013-12-15 16:06:19)


Our tomcat for your mice! Archlinux for your comps! Alfa Romeo for your roads! Faster running guaranted!

Offline

#13 2013-12-25 18:56:24

lelele
Member
Registered: 2013-12-20
Posts: 25

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

So the reason we're still using Xorg is the same reason most people are still using Windows? Not because it's good but because everything we need works on it?


"In hearing news about Adobe Flash dropping linux support."
GERGE: There is nothing wrong with this; as already pointed out, Flash is dead outside Windows.
Awebb: That's like saying fish is dead outside the ocean, GERGE.

Offline

#14 2013-12-25 19:35:30

Gulver
Member
Registered: 2013-05-24
Posts: 208

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

By a plain look into linux world, Xorg is probably the most primitive element of it, compared to its usage although its reliance with GTK or Qt. Even though It does make it happen to have some decent drivers for GPUs and all the benefits, one still simply cannot even run two X'instances.

It sounds like forking the kernel but I liked the idea.

Last edited by Gulver (2013-12-25 19:36:12)

Offline

#15 2013-12-25 19:48:16

Rasi
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-08-14
Posts: 1,852
Website

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

Gulver wrote:

By a plain look into linux world, Xorg is probably the most primitive element of it, compared to its usage although its reliance with GTK or Qt. Even though It does make it happen to have some decent drivers for GPUs and all the benefits, one still simply cannot even run two X'instances.

It sounds like forking the kernel but I liked the idea.

Ehm, what? I run 2 X instances all the time...


He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.

Douglas Adams

Offline

#16 2013-12-26 11:36:22

Gulver
Member
Registered: 2013-05-24
Posts: 208

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

Rasi wrote:

Ehm, what? I run 2 X instances all the time...

You'd run two Xservers distances, in indifferent TTYs, not two instances. It is a little detail but can give pretty advantages over variety in future development. I'm no expert and may be wrong (not that fundementally as you expected) but I guess it would make it easier, for example to run steam X window with its own compositor they made for SteamOS while using your Xfce with compton roll

Last edited by Gulver (2013-12-26 11:40:28)

Offline

#17 2013-12-26 13:43:59

Trilby
Forum Moderator
From: Massachusetts, USA
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 14,052
Website

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

Pstree -p output:

  ├─login(224)───bash(407)───xinit(443)─┬─X(444)───{X}(445)
  │                                     └─alopex(462)───lagopus(465)
  ├─login(29429)───bash(29460)───xinit(30029)─┬─X(30030)───{X}(30031)
  │                                           └─openbox(30034)───urxvt(30066)───bash(30067)

How is that not two isntances of X?


InterrobangSlider
• How's my coding? See this page.
• How's my moderating? Feel free to email any concerns, complaints, or objections.

Offline

#18 2013-12-27 01:25:51

Gulver
Member
Registered: 2013-05-24
Posts: 208

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

I'll just take my solipsist face on; I'm no expert, not that I even tried to use Xserver in an Xserver which will probably end up with something awful by default. However, if someone would make a software that is more than a script to run X'instances (I'm still saying instance, God forbid) in a customized way with ease and also offering more "candy" I'm for it.

(English is not my native language that have a pretty awful relation with Latin which I'm pretty good at and it makes me do some etymological crap-cake. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Last edited by Gulver (2013-12-27 01:30:05)

Offline

#19 2014-02-03 07:39:16

ConnorBehan
Trusted User (TU)
From: Long Island NY
Registered: 2007-07-05
Posts: 1,356
Website

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

By the time Wayland is ready, there might not be any reasons left. The tearing issue has been fixed with DRI3 + Present and the Wayland code base (while smaller right now) keeps getting bigger.

By the way, what is the plan for Ozone Wayland? If Chromium doesn't work on Wayland, shouldn't you just submit a patch to Google instead of writing a Wayland fork?


6EA3 F3F3 B908 2632 A9CB E931 D53A 0445 B47A 0DAB
Great things come in tar.xz packages.

Offline

#20 2014-02-03 07:53:35

progandy
Member
Registered: 2012-05-17
Posts: 2,151

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

ConnorBehan wrote:

By the way, what is the plan for Ozone Wayland? If Chromium doesn't work on Wayland, shouldn't you just submit a patch to Google instead of writing a Wayland fork?

They don't want new platforms in the chromium sourcetree. I guess once ozone is stable you should simply be able to pull both chromium and ozone-wayland and compile without any patches to chromium.
http://www.chromium.org/developers/desi … ents/ozone

new X11-alternative window systems on Linux such as Wayland or Mir to bring up Aura Chromium without needing additional platform code added to the Chromium source tree.

Offline

#21 2014-02-16 22:25:00

dakt
Member
From: Croatia
Registered: 2010-10-04
Posts: 67

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

Roberth wrote:

Hello

So far I have understood that wayland will replace x.org server as rendering protocol. I have understood that from a developers point of view, it is much simpler to maintain and relate to as an developer of the applications that speaks directly to the rendering protocol etc.... BUT....

What advantages does it present for the end user?

Well, being developer myself, providing good programming model and sane api is more then a good reason to do the switch, especially in open source world.
Happy developers = better product

Offline

#22 2014-11-13 17:54:39

kahrkunne
Member
Registered: 2013-08-24
Posts: 88

Re: Why wayland? from a users view

It doesn't really concern them anyways. When the change comes, if everything is done right, end users will barely notice the change.

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB