Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

dagon666 · 2014-01-15 14:55:50

Hi

I wanted to install a 32 bit Arch on a new HP EliteDesk machine which has 64 bit UEFI. By default the UEFI launches the 64 bit version from the installation media. When I specify the media in the Boot manager it launches the standard Arch installation screen from which I pick i686 - this of course results in booting the 32 bit version without UEFI - so, I'm unable to install GRUB. The general question is is it supported at all ? Can I install a 32 bit Arch on this machine ? If so, how to do it ? I'm quite new to UEFI and it seems very strange at first glance.

ANOKNUSA · 2014-01-15 16:15:02

Unless yours is one of the increasingly rare machines with 32-bit UEFI firmware, then no. The installation disc should automatically detect whether the EFI firmware is 32-bit or 64-bit and boot accordingly. [Insert requisite question about why one would want to use a 32-bit system on a 64-bit machine here].

I can't find the post at the moment, but as a fellow Archer (and the developer of rEFInd) Rod Smith pointed out here not long ago, there's a misconception that machines are being developed that are "capable of booting in UEFI-mode." In reality, a motherboard either has UEFI firmware (most machines designed in the last couple years) or traditional BIOS firmware (increasingly rare). Most UEFI machines are capable of booting in legacy mode; it isn't the other way around. Booting from UEFI is pretty straight-forward---follow the instructions in the wiki for setting up efistub and whichever boot manager you wish to use. If you only have a single OS, gummiboot might be the easiest to start with, since you can mount your EFI partition at /boot and run "gummiboot install" like you would with a typical bootloader.

dagon666 · 2014-01-15 16:32:46

How is it possible to install the newest 32 bit ubuntu on the same machine then ? I need the 32 bit system strictly since I'm using a pre-compiled proprietary development toolchain which doesn't work on 64 bit machine.

the.ridikulus.rat · 2014-01-15 21:06:22

dagon666 wrote:

How is it possible to install the newest 32 bit ubuntu on the same machine then ? I need the 32 bit system strictly since I'm using a pre-compiled proprietary development toolchain which doesn't work on 64 bit machine.

Arch does not support 64-bit UEFI and 32-bit kernel or vice-versa cases. You can setup a 32-bit chroot inside a 64-bit Arch system for your use-case, unless the program specifically requires 32-bit kernel to work.

ANOKNUSA · 2014-01-15 21:54:05

dagon666 wrote:

How is it possible to install the newest 32 bit ubuntu on the same machine then ?

If the Ubuntu wiki , forums, and this here Phoronix article from only two weeks ago are to be believed, it isn't possible to boot 32-bit Ubuntu from UEFI.

Last edited by ANOKNUSA (2014-01-15 21:57:16)

dagon666 · 2014-01-15 22:45:59

Regarding Ubuntu i just figured out that it install itself in legacy mode, partitioning the drive with MBR not with GPT and using standard GRUB. Regarding my use case - it's too much trouble to play around with 32 bit libraries or to create a chroot specifically only for my toolchain. I reinstalled Arch in legacy mode since at the moment I don't see any benefit (besides problems which I can't even anticipate at the moment) of having a 64 bit system.

brain0 · 2014-01-17 09:34:50

Contrary to what others posted, Arch does not support booting in 32 bit UEFI mode from the installation media. You can make it work by hand, assuming you have a 32 bit UEFI firmware - I did this once in qemu where with OVMF.

Even if it would, it is impossible to load a 32 bit kernel from 64 bit UEFI. You need to boot in legacy mode (the only operating system that handles a difference between OS and UEFI bitness is Mac OS X, and that requires some funny translation of all UEFI calls the OS makes - and even OS X only support 64 bit OS on 32 bit UEFI, not vice versa).

dagon666 wrote:

I need the 32 bit system strictly since I'm using a pre-compiled proprietary development toolchain which doesn't work on 64 bit machine.

A development toolchain is strictly in userspace, so it can easily work by installing the required lib32-* libraries.

dagon666 · 2014-01-17 09:38:43

It's more complicated, I would have to introduce changes to the project as well which would be "my machine specific" - like -m 32 for the linker to search for 32 bit libgcc library. In other words it brings only trouble and no benefit whatsoever.

brain0 · 2014-01-17 10:12:56

dagon666 wrote:

It's more complicated, I would have to introduce changes to the project as well which would be "my machine specific" - like -m 32 for the linker to search for 32 bit libgcc library. In other words it brings only trouble and no benefit whatsoever.

Then install a full 32 bit system in a chroot. Or run a 32 bit system with a 64 bit kernel.

dagon666 · 2014-01-17 10:18:18

I could do that but tell me why would I bother ? Why are you defending the native 64 bit architecture so much ? It's pointless, besides having to sacrifice another 3/4 gb of disk space I would practically have to maintain two systems and resolve a bunch of new problems with that environment - I simply have no patience or will to go that way, since it doesn't bring me anything as a reward for my effort.

brain0 · 2014-01-17 10:32:26

dagon666 wrote:

Why are you defending the native 64 bit architecture so much ?

You said that you wanted to boot using UEFI and have Linux run in UEFI mode - the only way to do that is to boot a 64 bit kernel. If you don't want that, then boot in legacy mode (if you can).

The problem here is you: you seem to think there is a different solution to your problem, but there isn't.

EDIT: I just realized you already installed in legacy mode. -1 for replying before having read all the posts.

Last edited by brain0 (2014-01-17 10:34:05)

ANOKNUSA · 2014-01-17 18:36:19

dagon666 wrote:

I could do that but tell me why would I bother ? Why are you defending the native 64 bit architecture so much ? It's pointless, besides having to sacrifice another 3/4 gb of disk space I would practically have to maintain two systems and resolve a bunch of new problems with that environment - I simply have no patience or will to go that way, since it doesn't bring me anything as a reward for my effort.

1) You're seriously overcomplicating this. A 32-bit chroot takes maybe half and hour to set up, and installing 32-bit libraries from [multilib] is no different than installing other packages. Obviously other people have put quite a bit more thought into this than you are; I've been using 64-bit Linux for over five years now, without a single problem attributable to the architecture.

2) This has been discussed in the forums and mailing list: Deprecation of 32-bit Arch is inevitable. x86 architecture is increasingly being relegated to mobile devices, while laptop and desktop machines manufactured in the last 4-5 years are almost universally 64-bit machines, with 32-bit compatibility maintained for gamers and neo-luddites who don't want to give up their Windows XP. The effort a small group of volunteers needs to make to maintain a desktop distribution for increasingly fewer machines simply isn't worth it. If you plan on using Arch long-term and have a 64-bit machine, you may as well install 64-bit now instead of investing lots of time into a system that will inevitably need to be reinstalled and configured for your work anyway.

Arch Linux

#1 2014-01-15 14:55:50

Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

#2 2014-01-15 16:15:02

Re: Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

#3 2014-01-15 16:32:46

Re: Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

#4 2014-01-15 21:06:22

Re: Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

#5 2014-01-15 21:54:05

Re: Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

#6 2014-01-15 22:45:59

Re: Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

#7 2014-01-17 09:34:50

Re: Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

#8 2014-01-17 09:38:43

Re: Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

#9 2014-01-17 10:12:56

Re: Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

#10 2014-01-17 10:18:18

Re: Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

#11 2014-01-17 10:32:26

Re: Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

#12 2014-01-17 18:36:19

Re: Install 32 bit Arch on 64 bit UEFI

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