Font issue, monospace used for serif and sans-serif families

iTanguy · 2014-09-13 09:41:12

Hello,

The problems appears ona brand new installation, with a quite limited number of installed packages, mostly xorg-server awesome ttf-liberation firefox.

Under Firefox, plenty of web sites look weird... because Liberation Mono is used most of the time !

I noticed there seems to be ways to configure Firefox for his own font preferences.
But I'd prefer to solve the issue at the system level, so that other applications can properly work as well.

It seems that font resolutions leads to Liberation Mono in most cases, as shown by fc-match :

[me@machine ~]$ fc-match monospace
LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Mono" "Regular"
[me@machine ~]$ fc-match mono
LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Mono" "Regular"
[me@machine ~]$ fc-match serif
LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Mono" "Regular"
[me@machine ~]$ fc-match Serif
LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Mono" "Regular"
[me@machine ~]$ fc-match sans-serif
LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Mono" "Regular"
[me@machine ~]$ fc-match "sans serif"
LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Mono" "Regular"
[me@machine ~]$ fc-match Arial
LiberationSans-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Sans" "Regular"
[me@machine ~]$

I didn't modify anything in /etc/fonts/, my ~/.config/fontconfig/ doesn't even exists...
Nor did I run fs-cache nor mkfontdir, as everything should have worked by "just" isntalling the packets... and so that the issue can eb understood and fixed.

Installed packages :

[me@machine ~]$ pacman -Qte
awesome 3.5.5-1
cryptsetup 1.6.6-1
dhcpcd 6.4.3-1
diffutils 3.3-2
efibootmgr 0.7.0.16.g099e110-1
elinks 0.13-15
file 5.19-1
firefox 32.0-1
flashplugin 11.2.202.406-1
gettext 0.19.2-1
gummiboot 45-1
hdparm 9.43-2
htop 1.0.3-2
icedtea-web 1.5.1-3
ifplugd 0.28-14
iotop 0.6-2
iputils 20121221-3
jfsutils 1.1.15-4
libva-intel-driver 1.3.2-1
licenses 20140629-1
linux 3.16.2-1
logrotate 3.8.7-3
lvm2 2.02.111-1
man-db 2.6.7.1-1
man-pages 3.71-1
mdadm 3.3.1-2
nano 2.2.6-3
netctl 1.9-1
numlockx 1.2-3
openssh 6.6p1-2
pacman 4.1.2-6
pcmciautils 018-7
powertop 2.6.1-1
procps-ng 3.3.9-3
psmisc 22.21-2
reflector 2014.8-1
reiserfsprogs 3.6.24-1
s-nail 14.7.6-1
sudo 1.8.10.p3-1
systemd-sysvcompat 216-3
tar 1.28-1
ttf-liberation 2.00.1-4
usbutils 007-1
vi 1:050325-4
vim 7.4.410-1
which 2.20-7
wpa_actiond 1.4-2
xf86-video-intel 2.99.916-1
xfsprogs 3.2.1-1
xorg-server 1.16.0-6
xorg-twm 1.0.8-3
xorg-xinit 1.3.4-1
xorg-xlsfonts 1.0.4-2
xterm 309-1
[me@machine ~]$

And pacman -Qs font shows that the only font package isntalled otherwise is xorg-fonts-misc :

[me@machine ~]$ pacman -Qs font
local/fontconfig 2.11.1-1
    A library for configuring and customizing font access
local/fontsproto 2.1.3-1
    X11 font extension wire protocol
local/freetype2 2.5.3-2
    TrueType font rendering library
local/libfontenc 1.1.2-1
    X11 font encoding library
local/libxfont 1.5.0-1
    X11 font rasterisation library
local/libxft 2.3.2-1
    FreeType-based font drawing library for X
local/ttf-liberation 2.00.1-4
    Red Hats Liberation fonts.
local/xorg-bdftopcf 1.0.4-2 (xorg xorg-apps)
    Convert X font from Bitmap Distribution Format to Portable Compiled Format
local/xorg-font-util 1.3.0-2 (xorg-fonts xorg)
    X.Org font utilities
local/xorg-font-utils 7.6-4
    Transitional package depending on xorg font utilities
local/xorg-fonts-alias 1.0.3-1
    X.org font alias files
local/xorg-fonts-encodings 1.0.4-4 (xorg-fonts xorg)
    X.org font encoding files
local/xorg-fonts-misc 1.0.1-3
    X.org misc fonts
local/xorg-mkfontdir 1.0.7-2 (xorg xorg-apps)
    Create an index of X font files in a directory
local/xorg-mkfontscale 1.1.1-1 (xorg-apps xorg)
    Create an index of scalable font files for X
local/xorg-xlsfonts 1.0.4-2
    List available X fonts
[me@machine ~]$

Available fonts :

[me@machine ~]$ fc-list
/usr/share/fonts/misc/7x13O-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Oblique
/usr/share/fonts/misc/9x15.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/10x20-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x13B.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold SemiCondensed
/usr/share/fonts/misc/cu-alt12.pcf.gz: ClearlyU Alternate Glyphs:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/10x20.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationSans-Italic.ttf: Liberation Sans:style=Italic
/usr/share/fonts/misc/8x13B.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/misc/9x18B.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/misc/8x13B-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/misc/7x13O.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Oblique
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x13O-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Oblique SemiCondensed
/usr/share/fonts/misc/9x18B-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: Liberation Mono:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/5x7-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/micro.pcf.gz: micro.pcf:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/cu-pua12.pcf.gz: ClearlyU PUA:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/clR6x12.pcf.gz: Clean:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/9x15B-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/misc/7x13B-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x9-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/12x24.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationSans-Bold.ttf: Liberation Sans:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/misc/cu12.pcf.gz: ClearlyU:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x13.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=SemiCondensed
/usr/share/fonts/misc/5x7.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationMono-BoldItalic.ttf: Liberation Mono:style=Bold Italic
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x13B-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold SemiCondensed
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x13O.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Oblique SemiCondensed
/usr/share/fonts/misc/4x6-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/5x8-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/9x15B.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationSans-Regular.ttf: Liberation Sans:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/7x13-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/9x18-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationSerif-Bold.ttf: Liberation Serif:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/misc/8x13-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/7x14B-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x10-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/8x16.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/7x14-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/9x15-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/18x18ko.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=ko
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationMono-Italic.ttf: Liberation Mono:style=Italic
/usr/share/fonts/misc/7x14.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/arabic24.pcf.gz: Newspaper:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationSerif-Italic.ttf: Liberation Serif:style=Italic
/usr/share/fonts/misc/deccurs.pcf.gz: deccurs.pcf:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/5x8.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/8x13.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/7x13B.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationSans-BoldItalic.ttf: Liberation Sans:style=Bold Italic
/usr/share/fonts/misc/clR6x12-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Clean:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/cursor.pcf.gz: cursor.pcf:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/7x14B.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationSerif-BoldItalic.ttf: Liberation Serif:style=Bold Italic
/usr/share/fonts/misc/8x13O.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Oblique
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationSerif-Regular.ttf: Liberation Serif:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/18x18ja.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=ja
/usr/share/fonts/misc/12x13ja.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=ja
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x10.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/decsess.pcf.gz: decsess.pcf:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/9x18.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/4x6.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/8x13O-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Oblique
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x12.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=SemiCondensed
/usr/share/fonts/misc/7x13.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x12-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=SemiCondensed
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/LiberationMono-Bold.ttf: Liberation Mono:style=Bold
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x13-ISO8859-1.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=SemiCondensed
/usr/share/fonts/misc/6x9.pcf.gz: Fixed:style=Regular
[me@machine ~]$

Any clue, any one ? More configuration files available on request.

iTanguy · 2014-09-16 18:07:58

Still no clue ? or should I create a bug ticket ?
Thanks in advance

thisoldman · 2014-09-17 10:15:29

You have set up no fontconfig rules defining your default serif, sans, or monospace fonts. You are also lacking a number of scalable fonts that websites assume you would have installed. Do you have the symlinks in '/etc/fonts/conf.d' to the three '30-ttf-liberation-*' files in '/etc/fonts/conf.avail'?

Take the time to read the wiki pages "Fonts" and "Font configuration".

iTanguy · 2014-09-17 18:47:26

Hi, thank you for helping.

thisoldman wrote:

You have set up no fontconfig rules defining your default serif, sans, or monospace fonts.

No, but I don't expect to have to do such manual configuration if I install a single font that provide serif, sans and monospace variants. That's what should be KISS : install a serif font such as Liberation Serif, and any request of "serif" font should be resolved as "serif".

I understand and agrre that, if I install several fonts and have preferences among them, I should do some configuration. But with a single font, no, it should "work" out of the box without manual configuration steps.

I think that my expectation is reasonnable. And maybe there is a problem with Liberation that I wouldn't meet with another font; it may be a packaging issue. That's what I try to understand.

thisoldman wrote:

You are also lacking a number of scalable fonts that websites assume you would have installed.

I fully understand that websites with "bad" CSS requiring specific fonts such as "Times New Roman", without specifying alternatives, won't render perfectly. It seems that some Flash applications way even fail. But that's not the question here.

thisoldman wrote:

Do you have the symlinks in '/etc/fonts/conf.d' to the three '30-ttf-liberation-*' files in '/etc/fonts/conf.avail'?

Nope. I tried with them and apparently nothing changes (and as it just defines option aliases for specific fonts, it's no surprise).

thisoldman wrote:

Take the time to read the wiki pages "Fonts" and "Font configuration".

I did it before posting this post (and discovered the tools such as fc-match and etc/fonts/conf.d). And I did it again after you answer. By the way, those Wiki pages are quite well written (though I am note native english speaker) and structured.

I hope that you understand my point of view and can enlighten me on my mistakes or misleadings.

I will keep on my investigations meanwhile.

Thank for your help anyway

iTanguy · 2014-09-17 19:03:48

Ah ah, it seems that different font packages leads to different results :

ttf-dejavu leads to proper resolution. The packet includes files in /etc/fonts/conf.avail/ with explicit substitution rules for the family names (serif, sans, monospace) in addition to other fonts names. And the packets apparently created links for these files into /etc/fonts/conf.d/ automatically, all by itself.

ttf-linux-libertine also leads to proper resolution. But this is mystery to me, as the package doesn't include any file in /etc/fonts.

Well, at least my expected behaviour is achieve for some font package, but not for ttf-liberation. Still I don't understand how all this is supposed to work, if the issue is in the package or not only.

Last edited by iTanguy (2014-09-17 19:05:41)

iTanguy · 2014-09-17 20:08:17

Investigations (reading their .INSTALL) before going to bed (and leaving for a long week-end), between those 3 TTF fonts : liberation, dejavu and linux-libertine :

They all update the font database (fc-cache, mkfontscale, mkfontdir), though not always with the messages nro with the same options.

Only dejavu handles (creation, removal, cleaning/updating) links in /etc/fonts/conf.d.

linux-libertine is also a OpenType Font. Maybe that formats contains more information on replacements and families not present withi TrueType format.

Conclusion : I still don't understand :
* how linux-libertines solves the resolution of "serif" query in fc-match. Could it be an OpenType specificity ?
* if the ttf-liberation should do more (more conf.avail files, substitution rules, adding links to conf.d...) or not.

thisoldman · 2014-09-18 02:48:24

I think the way the Liberation fonts are handled is the better way. No font or font family should declare itself as the default serif, monospace or sans font. Think of all the ugliness if [insert a hated font] was the only scalable font installed.

I'm not sure who decides which fontconfig rules are made the default in Arch. Perhaps the choice is made by following another distribution's example, say Debian or Fedora. The DejaVu family is actually a "safe choice" for a distro's defaults because of the good glyph coverage for so many languages.

iTanguy · 2014-09-24 20:11:25

I see your point, and I partly agree : it is probably the Linux distribution (such as ArchLinux) to decide which font to prefer, in case of multiple installed fonts. But, for me each font that has a serif mode should declare itself as providing serif (so that it could be used for serif fallback)... though I don't know by which mean.

And my conclusion is : ArchLinux's default font is ttf-dejavu, as it is apparently the only free font that offers a good user experience without additional configuration by the user. But I think that it should be more "conscious" and should be stated on Wiki in the install guides and font-related pages.

(And so, I have installed only ttf-dejavu

Thanks you all.

Arch Linux

#1 2014-09-13 09:41:12

Font issue, monospace used for serif and sans-serif families

#2 2014-09-16 18:07:58

Re: Font issue, monospace used for serif and sans-serif families

#3 2014-09-17 10:15:29

Re: Font issue, monospace used for serif and sans-serif families

#4 2014-09-17 18:47:26

Re: Font issue, monospace used for serif and sans-serif families

#5 2014-09-17 19:03:48

Re: Font issue, monospace used for serif and sans-serif families

#6 2014-09-17 20:08:17

Re: Font issue, monospace used for serif and sans-serif families

#7 2014-09-18 02:48:24

Re: Font issue, monospace used for serif and sans-serif families

#8 2014-09-24 20:11:25

Re: Font issue, monospace used for serif and sans-serif families

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