Looking for a decent Sans-serif font at small scales

wildfowl · 2014-11-06 11:46:33

Hi

I am looking for any recommendations to a sans-serif font which looks sharp at small scales.
It's primarily for use with GTK/Qt apps.

So I already know of Terminus, Tamsyn, Termsyn but am more interested in more a conventional looking sans font.

I've tried Arimo, Bitstream Vera, Geneva, Gill, Lucida, Helvectica, Nimbus Sans, Noto Sans, Open Sans, all of which look quite good but are a little fuzzy for UI use at Size 8.

Here is my .fonts.conf BTW.

<?xml version='1.0'?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<fontconfig>
    <match target="pattern">

        <edit mode="append" name="antialias">
            <bool>true</bool>
        </edit>

        <edit mode="append" name="hinting">
            <bool>true</bool>
        </edit>

        <edit mode="append" name="autohint">
            <bool>false</bool>
        </edit>

        <edit mode="append" name="hintstyle">
            <const>hintslight</const>
        </edit>

        <edit mode="append" name="rgba">
            <const>rgb</const>
        </edit>

        <edit mode="append" name="lcdfilter">
            <const>lcddefault</const>
        </edit>

       <edit mode="append" name="embeddedbitmap">
            <bool>false</bool>
        </edit>

</match>

    <selectfont><rejectfont><pattern>
        <patelt name="scalable"><bool>false</bool></patelt>
    </pattern></rejectfont></selectfont>

<match target="pattern" >
    <test name="family" qual="any" >
        <string>sans-serif</string>
    </test>
    <edit mode="assign" name="family" >
        <string>Geneva</string>
    </edit>
</match>

<match target="pattern" >
    <test name="family" qual="any" >
        <string>serif</string>
    </test>
    <edit mode="assign" name="family" binding="same">
        <string>Droid Serif</string>
    </edit>
</match>

<match target="pattern" >
    <test name="family" qual="any" >
        <string>monospace</string>
    </test>
    <edit mode="assign" name="family" binding="same">
        <string>Menlo</string>
    </edit>
</match>

</fontconfig>

I wish for an uber sharp looking sans font at size 8 or 9.

drcouzelis · 2014-11-06 12:18:26

Arial!

Arial is definitely totally über sharp. ...but doesn't "sharpness" have less to do with the font and more to do with your font settings?

wildfowl · 2014-11-06 12:26:12

Indeed Arial but again it's kind of in the same class as the others I've mentioned.

I've tweaked the above font settings to no end but still wish for something sharper. Bitmap font sharp.

wildfowl · 2014-11-06 12:27:49

Come to think of it I find Apple's Arimo a more harmonious type than Arial.
But it still doesn't solve my initial problem.

drcouzelis · 2014-11-06 12:57:53

Please show me a screenshot of Arial size 8 running on your computer.

...or any screenshots, really. Both showing what's wrong with the fonts you've tried and an example of what you want it to look like.

Gusar · 2014-11-06 13:22:11

You won't get sharp fonts with slight hinting. The sharpest setting is full hinting and lcdlegacy filter. The legacy filter requires very well hinted fonts though, otherwise you get nasty color fringing.

With the legacy filter and full hinting, Arial *is* very sharp at 8pt. So is Liberation Sans from ttf-liberation1 (available in AUR), which is no surprise considering it was designed to mimic Arial.

Then there's the IMO best UI font - Tahoma. Very sharp, but also very compact.

wildfowl · 2014-11-06 15:06:39

drcouzelis wrote:

Please show me a screenshot of Arial size 8 running on your computer.
...or any screenshots, really. Both showing what's wrong with the fonts you've tried and an example of what you want it to look like.

Just look at the interface fonts. Forget the stuff in the webpage contents. The UI fonts are too washed out (Grey) and not quite as crisp as say Terminus.

Arimo:

Arial:

wildfowl · 2014-11-06 15:14:14

Gusar wrote:

You won't get sharp fonts with slight hinting. The sharpest setting is full hinting and lcdlegacy filter. The legacy filter requires very well hinted fonts though, otherwise you get nasty color fringing.
With the legacy filter and full hinting, Arial *is* very sharp at 8pt. So is Liberation Sans from ttf-liberation1 (available in AUR), which is no surprise considering it was designed to mimic Arial.
Then there's the IMO best UI font - Tahoma. Very sharp, but also very compact.

Thanks. This is quite helpful. Most research on the LCD filter suggests to use lcddefault which is why largely ignored lcdlegacy. But you might be right, Arial and Tahoma faces are indeed sharper for UI usage. Only thing I dislike is these faces make apps reminiscient of MS Windows and MS apps.

Actually Droid Sans works well too with these settings. The Apple fonts not so much. I suppose because the Apple fonts are natively hinted differently to be specifically used with the OSX UI.

wildfowl · 2014-11-06 15:16:08

The problem with Terminus is it's only good for viewing discrete piece of information. You couldn't read book written in Terminus.

Last edited by wildfowl (2014-11-06 15:37:41)

wildfowl · 2014-11-06 16:59:53

I managed to play around a bit more and these are the results. I would think perhaps (marginally) better than last time. Marginally if at all.

~/.fonts.conf

<?xml version='1.0'?>
<!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd">
<fontconfig>
    <match target="pattern">
        <edit mode="append" name="antialias">
            <bool>true</bool>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="append" name="hinting">
            <bool>true</bool>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="append" name="autohint">
            <bool>true</bool>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="append" name="hintstyle">
            <const>hintfull</const>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="append" name="rgba">
            <const>rgb</const>
        </edit>
        <edit mode="append" name="lcdfilter">
            <const>lcdlegacy</const>
        </edit>

        <edit mode="append" name="embeddedbitmap">
            <bool>false</bool>
        </edit>
    </match>

    <selectfont><rejectfont><pattern>
        <patelt name="scalable"><bool>false</bool></patelt>
    </pattern></rejectfont></selectfont>

<match target="pattern" >
    <test name="family" qual="any" >
        <string>sans-serif</string>
    </test>
    <edit mode="assign" name="family" >
        <string>Arimo</string>
    </edit>
</match>

<match target="pattern" >
    <test name="family" qual="any" >
        <string>serif</string>
    </test>
    <edit mode="assign" name="family" binding="same">
        <string>Georgia</string>
    </edit>
</match>

<match target="pattern" >
    <test name="family" qual="any" >
        <string>monospace</string>
    </test>
    <edit mode="assign" name="family" binding="same">
        <string>Menlo</string>
    </edit>
</match>

</fontconfig>

I switched LCDfilter lcddefault to lcdlegacy, hintslight to hintfull and also had to switch on autohint.

Last edited by wildfowl (2014-11-06 17:02:46)

Arch Linux

#1 2014-11-06 11:46:33

Looking for a decent Sans-serif font at small scales

#2 2014-11-06 12:18:26

Re: Looking for a decent Sans-serif font at small scales

#3 2014-11-06 12:26:12

Re: Looking for a decent Sans-serif font at small scales

#4 2014-11-06 12:27:49

Re: Looking for a decent Sans-serif font at small scales

#5 2014-11-06 12:57:53

Re: Looking for a decent Sans-serif font at small scales

#6 2014-11-06 13:22:11

Re: Looking for a decent Sans-serif font at small scales

#7 2014-11-06 15:06:39

Re: Looking for a decent Sans-serif font at small scales

#8 2014-11-06 15:14:14

Re: Looking for a decent Sans-serif font at small scales

#9 2014-11-06 15:16:08

Re: Looking for a decent Sans-serif font at small scales

#10 2014-11-06 16:59:53

Re: Looking for a decent Sans-serif font at small scales

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