KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

agapito · 2015-01-16 17:41:18

I don´t like the idea. I don´t want KDE 5 at this moment, i want a pure KDE 4 / QT4 desktop. I saw some elements like konsole, being replaced for their qt5 version. Is this an error? If not, I think is a bad decision. I guess it's time to block KDE 5/QT5 components in pacman.conf. KDE4 users, what do you think?

karol · 2015-01-16 18:33:32

Maybe you can maintain qt4 versions in the AUR.

arojas · 2015-01-16 19:03:04

There is no "KDE5". Arch provides the latest release of all applications, and the latest release of konsole happens to be based on KF5.

drcouzelis · 2015-01-16 19:08:55

agapito wrote:

i want a pure KDE 4 / QT4 desktop.

Why?

sir_lucjan · 2015-01-16 20:23:07

@agapito

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/pa … g_upgraded

bad63r · 2015-01-16 21:10:31

@agapito , why you dont like qt5 replace? Is it buggy or slow or you just dont like it?

karol · 2015-01-16 21:45:48

https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/a … 26917.html

agapito · 2015-01-17 15:17:59

I don't like qt5 apps because they look ugly. Don't respect my qt4/kde theme (oxygen in this case) or my fonts settings.

Last edited by agapito (2015-01-17 15:22:56)

kokoko3k · 2015-01-17 17:29:16

agapito wrote:

I don't like qt5 apps because they look ugly. Don't respect my qt4/kde theme (oxygen in this case) or my fonts settings.

Good point.
If you notice any of the above, you should fill a bug report to arch devs.
Isn't [testing] for this?

Last edited by kokoko3k (2015-01-17 17:30:27)

K900 · 2015-01-20 14:10:46

You can install the Oxygen theme for Qt 5 - the package is simply named "oxygen".

pb · 2015-01-20 20:26:22

@K900 - In Plasma 5.1 oxygen brings: style and windows theme and decoration, but in Plasma 5.2 there is only Oxygen style and theme. If I remember, there is oxygen for qtcurve and maybe it will be works in Plasma 5.2.
@ agapito - In this moment (Plasma 5.1 in repository), oxygen theme works good with Plasma. In case of fonts settings, maybe you must adjust something. All fonts available for KDE4 are available for Plasma5, too.

agapito · 2015-01-21 17:05:54

@pb - Oxygen package conflicts with kdebase-workspace. I can't install oxygen theme without uninstalling kde4.

pb · 2015-01-21 18:54:38

@agapito - no, just take a look at oxygen dependencies. Plasma5 conflicts with kdebase-workspace, of course. Kdebase-workspace and plasma-workspace couldn't co-exists. If you want to use plasma5 you have to uninstall kdebase-workspace.

Last edited by pb (2015-01-21 18:57:57)

llkiwi2006 · 2015-01-22 23:07:32

@pb - I just installed the kf5 apps from testing, and now kate and konsole are using the ugly "fusion" theme. How do I bring the oxygen theme back? (oxygen and oxygen-kde4 won't install due to conflict with kdebase-workspace)

pb · 2015-01-23 07:19:56

@llkiwi2006 - If you installed only "kf5 apps from testing" and you use kdebase-workspace, then you have KDE4 and KDE Applications 14.12.1 (see: https://www.kde.org/announcements/annou … 4.12.0.php). Some of them are based on KF5 (kate, kwrite, konsole, gwenview etc as it's explain in link). You don't use Plasma5 then you coudn't install and use Oxygen (see: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/oxygen/) because it belongs to plasma-next (you can use it only when you use Plasma5). The simpliest way to have native oxygen look for those KF5 apps is to downgrade them to 4.14.3 version. But you should to know, that there will be much more apps builds against of KF5 in KDE Applications 15.04 and KDE4 will be depreciated this year (in Autumn if I remember). If you want to use KF5 apps in KDE4 and have unified look for KDE4 and those KF5 apps, you should to change your decorations to something different (maybe breeze-kde4 or qtcurve) or... switch to Plasma5 and use breeze, plastic or qtcurve (KDE4 apps looks well there, but there isn't oxygen decorations on Plasma5.2).

llkiwi2006 · 2015-01-23 10:38:02

@pb - Thanks, I have downgraded my kde apps to 4.14.3. I'll look into plasma5 in the future when I have time.

kostett · 2015-02-08 11:34:10

pb wrote:

You don't use Plasma5 then you coudn't install and use Oxygen (see: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/oxygen/) because it belongs to plasma-next (you can use it only when you use Plasma5).

Did you mean what I'll be unable to see all my apps in one style if I'll use plasma-netbook from KDE4?
If it's true, does plasma-next have a netbook appearance mode?
P.S. I extremly hate people which like to break workable things. What was a reason to replace KDE4 by KDE5, but not rename kde to kde4 as an older but supported by developers version, like renaming gstreamer to gstreamer0.10?

Scimmia · 2015-02-08 17:24:29

The gstreamer rename was necessary because it's a library that many programs required. Completely different situation than KDE4/KDE5.

If you don't like change, why in the world would you choose Arch?

kostett · 2015-02-08 23:16:10

It fast and transparent for my knowledge level. That's why I use Arch. And I wouldn't want to transform my Arch installation in Gentoo, when biggest piece of software building from source.
"Completly different" in this case means difference between versions numbers. I say again: KDE4 still supported by developers . It's strange for my opinion to make decision against user's interests. I like changes when its don't breaks my normal work process. For example, KDE5 was mainstreamed when hotkeys in Qt5 wasn't work correctly in non-latin keyboard layouts. Now that critical bug fixed, but leaved a nasty aftertaste. Where is netbook appearance? I want to see all applications running fullscreen by default.
So, waiting for unoffical KDE4 repository. Because [testing] is not my way.

Buddlespit · 2015-02-16 03:33:07

Scimmia wrote:

If you don't like change, why in the world would you choose Arch?

There is just something fundamentally wrong with that kind of mindset. I chose Arch because it was time for me to learn how to fix my system when something broke, instead of just re-installing the entire system. Arch allows me to learn what's really going on under the hood. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind change. But not when it breaks my very stable daily driver. THIS is my system. It has to work, be fully functional (ie- have all of the apps I use) and not look like crap. Hence KDE.

Now, about once a month, I back up my entire root system to my server (my /home 2x a week-not relevant to this) and check out Plasma 5. And every time, after about 3 days of screwing around trying to fix the look and of crashing, I remove Plasma 5 and re-install KDE4. I'm getting pretty good at it. Plasma 5 is still broken and very slowly, very insidiously, Plasma 5 is being forced on me. It took quite a while to make Dolphin and Kate/Kwrite to look like the rest of my KDE desktop. But it's a known problem and doesn't appear to be a contingency plan for these issues. All I see in the KDE5 threads telling users that this is the new thing and embrace the change (kinda like what you said). I'll embrace the change as long as it doesn't break my system or make it look like amateur hour at the coding factory.

Some people like living on the bleeding edge. If I had a second system, I would also be running testing and community-testing full bore on it.

Scimmia · 2015-02-16 05:25:57

Buddlespit wrote:

Scimmia wrote:
If you don't like change, why in the world would you choose Arch?
There is just something fundamentally wrong with that kind of mindset. I chose Arch because it was time for me to learn how to fix my system when something broke, instead of just re-installing the entire system. Arch allows me to learn what's really going on under the hood. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind change. But not when it breaks my very stable daily driver. THIS is my system. It has to work, be fully functional (ie- have all of the apps I use) and not look like crap. Hence KDE.

Arch is a bleeding edge distro. If your requirements include 100% uptime, Arch is going to give you ulcers.

Buddlespit · 2015-02-16 12:38:03

I beg to differ. I've been on Arch for about a year and any regressions introduced are usually found and fixed pretty quickly. With the exception of Plasma 5, KF5 and KDE5 apps, it appears that everything on my main is tested pretty thoroughly before being released into our 'wilds'. Hell, I was impressed enough to migrate from Ubuntu Server to Arch on my home server last month! The KDE issues are the only reason I haven't switched my daughters laptop from Kubuntu to Arch. It's bad enough that I have to listen to her bitch about having Linux on her laptop, I don't want to listen to the 'broken Linux on her laptop' diatribe.

freebullets · 2015-03-18 15:35:15

Buddlespit wrote:

I beg to differ. I've been on Arch for about a year and any regressions introduced are usually found and fixed pretty quickly. With the exception of Plasma 5, KF5 and KDE5 apps, it appears that everything on my main is tested pretty thoroughly before being released into our 'wilds'. Hell, I was impressed enough to migrate from Ubuntu Server to Arch on my home server last month! The KDE issues are the only reason I haven't switched my daughters laptop from Kubuntu to Arch. It's bad enough that I have to listen to her bitch about having Linux on her laptop, I don't want to listen to the 'broken Linux on her laptop' diatribe.

Wow. Is the laptop running Linux for performance reasons? There's really not much reason to be using Linux over Windows if you're not a power-user. Most people expect to be able to install any application they encounter, and not being able to do that is frustrating. Secondly, KDE 5 is the next version of KDE, and the amount of maintenance effort for KDE 4 will be dropping extremely fast once it's declared stable. You can install the Breeze theme for KDE 4 if you need consistent visual style between apps. If visual consistency is that valuable to you, I believe Kubuntu spends a lot of effort on keeping things polished for end users.

Buddlespit · 2015-03-18 16:16:27

freebullets wrote:

Wow. Is the laptop running Linux for performance reasons? There's really not much reason to be using Linux over Windows if you're not a power-user. Most people expect to be able to install any application they encounter, and not being able to do that is frustrating.

Cost. Windows costs money. Big reason, right there. Plus, I know how to fix a Linux system if it breaks. Not so good with Windows.

freebullets wrote:

Secondly, KDE 5 is the next version of KDE, and the amount of maintenance effort for KDE 4 will be dropping extremely fast once it's declared stable. You can install the Breeze theme for KDE 4 if you need consistent visual style between apps. If visual consistency is that valuable to you, I believe Kubuntu spends a lot of effort on keeping things polished for end users.

The KF5 & Plasma thread is up to 45 pages when I look at it, and steadily growing. Once the bitching about what's broken stops, or at least slows down, I'll install it, full time, on my system. Until then, it's broken. I get the KDE RSS feed in Kontact. I tend to read it. If the developers aren't traveling around the world, going to summits or sprints everywhere, they're adding crap like wallpapers and avatars or working on things like AI. How about fixing what you have instead of developing Krita for Windows? It's nice to know that Calligra has released a bug-fix, but I still can't access my panel to launch it, or if I can access the panel, the fonts are almost the same color are the background of the app. I know KDE4 is going away. I do spot checks in my journal and can see all of the "kded5[2796]: kf5.kded: kded module "ksuch-n-such" still uses .desktop files ("kded/ksuch-n-such.desktop"). Please port it to JSON metadata." or "org.kde.kblah-blah[2720]: QDBusConnection: session D-Bus connection created before QCoreApplication. Application may misbehave." every time I boot. Every week, the lists grow. Either Plasma 5 becomes stable enough to install (for my system) or KDE4 breaks enough to make Plasma 5 an attractive option.

freebullets · 2015-03-18 16:33:27

Buddlespit wrote:

freebullets wrote:
Wow. Is the laptop running Linux for performance reasons? There's really not much reason to be using Linux over Windows if you're not a power-user. Most people expect to be able to install any application they encounter, and not being able to do that is frustrating.
Cost. Windows costs money. Big reason, right there. Plus, I know how to fix a Linux system if it breaks. Not so good with Windows.
freebullets wrote:
Secondly, KDE 5 is the next version of KDE, and the amount of maintenance effort for KDE 4 will be dropping extremely fast once it's declared stable. You can install the Breeze theme for KDE 4 if you need consistent visual style between apps. If visual consistency is that valuable to you, I believe Kubuntu spends a lot of effort on keeping things polished for end users.
The KF5 & Plasma thread is up to 45 pages when I look at it, and steadily growing. Once the bitching about what's broken stops, or at least slows down, I'll install it, full time, on my system. Until then, it's broken. I get the KDE RSS feed in Kontact. I tend to read it. If the developers aren't traveling around the world, going to summits or sprints everywhere, they're adding crap like wallpapers and avatars or working on things like AI. How about fixing what you have instead of developing Krita for Windows? It's nice to know that Calligra has released a bug-fix, but I still can't access my panel to launch it, or if I can access the panel, the fonts are almost the same color are the background of the app. I know KDE4 is going away. I do spot checks in my journal and can see all of the "kded5[2796]: kf5.kded: kded module "ksuch-n-such" still uses .desktop files ("kded/ksuch-n-such.desktop"). Please port it to JSON metadata." or "org.kde.kblah-blah[2720]: QDBusConnection: session D-Bus connection created before QCoreApplication. Application may misbehave." every time I boot. Every week, the lists grow. Either Plasma 5 becomes stable enough to install (for my system) or KDE4 breaks enough to make Plasma 5 an attractive option.

My recommendation would be to stick to a stable release of KDE. You could possibly achieve that in Arch by holding back the KDE packages. From what I know, open source developers are largely people like you and me with full time jobs. Also, keep in mind that the people trying to port application to Windows might not be the same ones that work on improving the Linux version.

Arch Linux

#1 2015-01-16 17:41:18

KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#2 2015-01-16 18:33:32

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#3 2015-01-16 19:03:04

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#4 2015-01-16 19:08:55

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#5 2015-01-16 20:23:07

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#6 2015-01-16 21:10:31

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#7 2015-01-16 21:45:48

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#8 2015-01-17 15:17:59

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#9 2015-01-17 17:29:16

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#10 2015-01-20 14:10:46

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#11 2015-01-20 20:26:22

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#12 2015-01-21 17:05:54

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#13 2015-01-21 18:54:38

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#14 2015-01-22 23:07:32

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#15 2015-01-23 07:19:56

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#16 2015-01-23 10:38:02

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#17 2015-02-08 11:34:10

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#18 2015-02-08 17:24:29

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#19 2015-02-08 23:16:10

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#20 2015-02-16 03:33:07

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#21 2015-02-16 05:25:57

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#22 2015-02-16 12:38:03

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#23 2015-03-18 15:35:15

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#24 2015-03-18 16:16:27

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

#25 2015-03-18 16:33:27

Re: KDE 5 replacing KDE 4?

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