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Hi,
I know the KDE upgrade issue is "flavor of the day" at the moment and I have read other threads on it; but so far have not found info which applies to my situation.
Note: I only use a FEW KDE apps like Krusader, Yakuake, Konsole, Kcalc and do NOT use KDE the Desktop Environment (and have no desire to do so.) In fact, I do not use any DE's, only Openbox and i3WM as Window Managers, preferring a minimalistic approach, IOW, "less is more".
Since a day or two (since the KDE 4.14 to 14.12 came out), I am facing the following when trying to do a full system upgrade:
% pacman -Syu
:: Synchronizing package databases...
core is up to date
extra is up to date
community is up to date
multilib is up to date
:: Starting full system upgrade...
warning: caps: ignoring package upgrade (0.9.23-1 => 0.9.24-1)
warning: cups: ignoring package upgrade (1.7.5-1 => 2.0.1-1)
:: Replace kdebase-katepart with extra/katepart4? [Y/n] y
:: Replace kdebase-konsole with extra/konsole? [Y/n] y
:: Replace kdegraphics-gwenview with extra/gwenview? [Y/n] y
warning: libcups: ignoring package upgrade (1.7.5-1 => 2.0.1-1)
warning: opera: ignoring package upgrade (12.16.1860-2 => 26.0.1656.60-1)
resolving dependencies...
:: There are 2 providers available for phonon-qt5-backend:
:: Repository extra
1) phonon-qt5-gstreamer 2) phonon-qt5-vlc
Enter a number (default=1): 2
looking for conflicting packages...
:: kactivities-frameworks and kactivities4 are in conflict. Remove kactivities4? [y/N] y
Packages (89) attica-qt5-5.6.0-1 geoclue-0.12.99-2 gwenview-14.12.1-2 kactivities-frameworks-5.6.0-1 kactivities4-4.13.3-1 [removal] karchive-5.6.0-1 katepart4-4.14.3-2 kauth-5.6.0-1 kbookmarks-5.6.0-1 kcmutils-5.6.0-1
kcodecs-5.6.0-1 kcompletion-5.6.0-1 kconfig-5.6.0-1 kconfigwidgets-5.6.0-1 kcoreaddons-5.6.0-1 kcrash-5.6.0-1 kdbusaddons-5.6.0-1 kdebase-katepart-4.14.3-1 [removal] kdebase-konsole-4.14.3-1 [removal]
kdebase-lib-14.12.1-2 kdebase-runtime-14.12.1-1 kdeclarative-5.6.0-1 kded-5.6.0-1 kdegraphics-gwenview-4.14.3-1 [removal] kdegraphics-kolourpaint-14.12.1-1 kdegraphics-ksnapshot-14.12.1-1
kdegraphics-mobipocket-14.12.1-1 kdelibs-4.14.4-1 kdelibs4support-5.6.0-1 kdenetwork-filesharing-14.12.1-1 kdepimlibs-4.14.4-1 kdesdk-kompare-14.12.1-1 kdesignerplugin-5.6.0-1 kdeutils-ark-14.12.1-1
kdeutils-filelight-14.12.1-1 kdeutils-kcalc-14.12.1-1 kdeutils-kcharselect-14.12.1-1 kdewebkit-5.6.0-1 kemoticons-5.6.0-1 kglobalaccel-5.6.0-1 kguiaddons-5.6.0-1 ki18n-5.6.0-1 kiconthemes-5.6.0-1 kinit-5.6.0-1
kio-5.6.0-1 kitemmodels-5.6.0-1 kitemviews-5.6.0-1 kjobwidgets-5.6.0-1 knotifications-5.6.0-1 knotifyconfig-5.6.0-1 konsole-14.12.1-1 konsolepart4-4.14.3-4 kparts-5.6.0-1 kplotting-5.6.0-1 kpty-5.6.0-1
kservice-5.6.0-1 ktextwidgets-5.6.0-1 kunitconversion-5.6.0-1 kwallet-5.6.0-1 kwidgetsaddons-5.6.0-1 kwindowsystem-5.6.0-1 kxmlgui-5.6.0-1 lib32-mesa-10.4.3-1 lib32-mesa-libgl-10.4.3-1
libdbusmenu-qt5-0.9.3+14.10.20140619-1 libkdcraw-14.12.1-1 libkipi-14.12.1-1 libkomparediff2-14.12.1-1 libmm-glib-1.4.2-1 libnm-glib-1.0.0-1 mesa-10.4.3-1 mesa-libgl-10.4.3-1 oxygen-icons-14.12.1-1 pacman-4.2.0-6
phonon-qt5-4.8.3-1 phonon-qt5-vlc-0.8.2-1 polkit-qt5-0.112-2 qt5-declarative-5.4.0-3 qt5-location-5.4.0-3 qt5-sensors-5.4.0-3 qt5-svg-5.4.0-3 qt5-webchannel-5.4.0-3 qt5-webkit-5.4.0-3 qt5-x11extras-5.4.0-3
qt5-xmlpatterns-5.4.0-3 solid-5.6.0-1 sonnet-5.6.0-1 sqlite-3.8.8.1-1 yakuake-2.9.9-4
Total Download Size: 107.20 MiB
Total Installed Size: 386.80 MiB
Net Upgrade Size: 172.52 MiB
:: Proceed with installation? [Y/n] I have looked at almost all of the packages listed above and I currently only have a few of those installed. I can recognize the obvious ones I use (Krusader, Konsole, Gwenview and a few others) and their current deps. When I do a pacman -Qs on each of the above packages/deps, most of them are NOT currently installed.
Trying to keep my system light, with no unnecessary packages, I fail to see why I would need packages such as kcrash, kbookmarks, kconfigwidgets, kemoticons, knotifications, kwallet (I definitely do NOT use kwallet).
When I look at the Net Upgrade Size of +172.52 MiB, again, I fail to see WHY I would need to load my system up with all of these packages--unless absolutely necessary. But why would running the SAME apps as before, just upgrading them, require an extra 172+ MiB? That does NOT seem right at all. Granted, some of these MiB's are allocated to the other packages at end of list such as mesa, etc.; but most of the 172+ MiB's are most likely allocated to the KDE-related packages.
1) Short-term
I have tried to Ignore the packages in pacman.conf by adding "kde kdegraphics kdebase kdenetwork kf5 plasma-next" to the IgnoreGroup and "yakuake oxygen-icons kdebase-lib kdebase-runtime" to the IgnorePkg but that is not enough since there are some packages which do not belong to any group so I would need to hunt them down one by one, etc. And this does not seem to be the right approach, in any event.
2) Long-term
I do want to upgrade the applications which I DO use, such as Krusader, Konsole, etc.; so it would seem I need to resolve this issue.
For further info, if I change the replies on the choices pacman offers on upgrading, this is what I get (which is probably normal):
% pacman -Syu
:: Synchronizing package databases...
core is up to date
extra is up to date
community is up to date
multilib is up to date
:: Starting full system upgrade...
warning: caps: ignoring package upgrade (0.9.23-1 => 0.9.24-1)
warning: cups: ignoring package upgrade (1.7.5-1 => 2.0.1-1)
:: Replace kdebase-katepart with extra/katepart4? [Y/n] n
:: Replace kdebase-konsole with extra/konsole? [Y/n] n
:: Replace kdegraphics-gwenview with extra/gwenview? [Y/n] n
warning: libcups: ignoring package upgrade (1.7.5-1 => 2.0.1-1)
warning: opera: ignoring package upgrade (12.16.1860-2 => 26.0.1656.60-1)
resolving dependencies...
looking for conflicting packages...
:: konsolepart4 and kdebase-konsole are in conflict. Remove kdebase-konsole? [y/N] n
error: unresolvable package conflicts detected
error: failed to prepare transaction (conflicting dependencies)
:: konsolepart4 and kdebase-konsole are in conflict (kdebase-konsole<4.14.3-4)So, what am I missing? Just a few brain cells, i.e. the apps I have (in their updated versions) actually DO need all of the deps listed? (This really makes no sense to me.)
Or is there a problem with the required dependencies?
Thanks for any helpful feedback.
Last edited by stef_204 (2015-01-26 09:32:26)
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So, what am I missing? Just a few brain cells, i.e. the apps I have (in their updated versions) actually DO need all of the deps listed? (This really makes no sense to me.)
Yes, they do. The latest versions of konsole and gwenview are based on Qt5/KF5, hence all the new dependencies.
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Well, If you are correct (and you probably are), with all due respect to KDE users/developers, IMHO this just confirms the trend towards "bloat".....
Again, I see no reason whatsoever to have to install kwallet (for example) when I'm just not using it, etc.
This just makes me want to uninstall those apps altogether or, probably better, just stop at the versions I currently have and prevent them from upgrading, as a temporary solution.
I might be able to switch to other smaller/lighter apps, over time--which will probably have less features, though, but can't always have your cake and eat it too, I suppose.
What is the best way for me to prevent this upgrade of all kde-related apps from 4.14 to higher versions?
I mentioned in my original post which groups and packages I tried adding to pacman.conf IgnoreGroup and IgnorePkg but I am obviously missing something.
Any suggestions as to how to properly stop from upgrading?
This is where I am right now, for pacman.conf
IgnorePkg = netcfg cups libcups compton-conf-git caps opera yakuake oxygen-icons kdebase-lib kdebase-runtime kdebase-konsole kdegraphics-gwenview kdebase-katepart kdelibs kdepimlibs libkdcraw libkipi libkomparediff2
IgnoreGroup = kde kdegraphics kdebase kdenetwork kf5 kf5-aids plasma-nextResults in:
% pacman -Syu
:: Synchronizing package databases...
core is up to date
extra is up to date
community is up to date
multilib is up to date
:: Starting full system upgrade...
warning: caps: ignoring package upgrade (0.9.23-1 => 0.9.24-1)
warning: cups: ignoring package upgrade (1.7.5-1 => 2.0.1-1)
warning: ignoring package replacement (kdebase-katepart-4.14.3-1 => katepart4-4.14.3-2)
warning: ignoring package replacement (kdebase-konsole-4.14.3-1 => konsole-14.12.1-1)
warning: kdebase-lib: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-2)
warning: kdebase-runtime: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: ignoring package replacement (kdegraphics-gwenview-4.14.3-1 => gwenview-14.12.1-2)
warning: kdegraphics-kolourpaint: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: kdegraphics-ksnapshot: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: kdegraphics-mobipocket: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: kdelibs: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-2 => 4.14.4-1)
warning: kdenetwork-filesharing: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: kdepimlibs: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 4.14.4-1)
warning: kdesdk-kompare: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: kdeutils-ark: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: kdeutils-filelight: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: kdeutils-kcalc: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: kdeutils-kcharselect: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: libcups: ignoring package upgrade (1.7.5-1 => 2.0.1-1)
warning: libkdcraw: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: libkipi: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: libkomparediff2: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: opera: ignoring package upgrade (12.16.1860-2 => 26.0.1656.60-1)
warning: oxygen-icons: ignoring package upgrade (4.14.3-1 => 14.12.1-1)
warning: yakuake: ignoring package upgrade (2.9.9-3 => 2.9.9-4)
resolving dependencies...
looking for conflicting packages...
Packages (7) lib32-mesa-10.4.3-1 lib32-mesa-libgl-10.4.3-1 libmm-glib-1.4.2-1 libnm-glib-1.0.0-1 mesa-10.4.3-1 mesa-libgl-10.4.3-1 sqlite-3.8.8.1-1
Total Download Size: 14.07 MiB
Total Installed Size: 65.56 MiB
Net Upgrade Size: 2.82 MiB
:: Proceed with installation? [Y/n]I haven't gone through the upgrade yet, cancelled out of it.
Any feedback on above?
Thanks.
Last edited by stef_204 (2015-01-25 15:27:39)
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Unfortunately you are wrong about the "bloat". In fact quite the opposite is true. Most of those packages you think will bloat your systems are already installed on your system in an older version. You just don't know because they are cleverly disguised as kdelibs and kdebase-runtime in your package list. If you dig in there you will probably see that you already have "kwallet" installed if you use it or not.
With KF5 these big packages have been split into several smaller ones. This allows packages to selectively pull in what they actually need instead of ALL KDE libs. So actually this is a trend to unbloat. Once all the KDE programs that you are using will be ported to KF5 you will be able to massively unbloat your system by uninstalling the big kdelibs package. Until then your package list might appear bloated but your system isn't much more bloated than before. And considering the 172.52 MiB... I bet if you sum up all the KDE4 dependencies that the old version are requiring you will end up higher.
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Unfortunately you are wrong about the "bloat". In fact quite the opposite is true. Most of those packages you think will bloat your systems are already installed on your system in an older version. You just don't know because they are cleverly disguised as kdelibs and kdebase-runtime in your package list. If you dig in there you will probably see that you already have "kwallet" installed if you use it or not.
I am totally willing and happy to be wrong on the "bloat" issue, to be honest, but until the apps do get updated, as you mention, and I am hopefully able to "unbloat" by uninstalling the kdelibs, etc.; then the extra 172.52 MiB's just look like pure bloat to me.
And there's plenty of packages which just don't make sense for me to have, or don't seem desirable.
Anyway, as far as kwallet, this is what I have currently:
% pacman -Ql kdelibs | grep wallet
kdelibs /usr/include/kwallet.h
kdelibs /usr/include/kwebwallet.hAnd
% pacman -Ql kdebase-runtime | grep wallet
kdebase-runtime /usr/bin/kwalletd
kdebase-runtime /usr/lib/libkdeinit4_kwalletd.so
kdebase-runtime /usr/lib/libkwalletbackend.so
kdebase-runtime /usr/lib/libkwalletbackend.so.4
kdebase-runtime /usr/lib/libkwalletbackend.so.4.14.3
kdebase-runtime /usr/share/apps/desktoptheme/default/icons/wallet.svgz
kdebase-runtime /usr/share/apps/kconf_update/kwallet-4.13.upd
kdebase-runtime /usr/share/apps/kwalletd/
kdebase-runtime /usr/share/apps/kwalletd/kwalletd.notifyrc
kdebase-runtime /usr/share/kde4/services/kwalletd.desktopWith KF5 these big packages have been split into several smaller ones. This allows packages to selectively pull in what they actually need instead of ALL KDE libs. So actually this is a trend to unbloat. Once all the KDE programs that you are using will be ported to KF5 you will be able to massively unbloat your system by uninstalling the big kdelibs package. Until then your package list might appear bloated but your system isn't much more bloated than before. And considering the 172.52 MiB... I bet if you sum up all the KDE4 dependencies that the old version are requiring you will end up higher.
This, in Wikipedia, seems to validate what you are saying:
The KDE Frameworks bundle consists of over 60 packages. These existed as a single large package, called kdelibs, in KDE SC 4. Kdelibs was split into several individual frameworks, some of which are no longer part of KDE but were integrated into Qt 5.2.
Hopefully, I will be able to see this "unbloat" soon and feel comfortable with the new approach you mention; if, as you say, this upgrade and the trend is towards unbloating, then I'm all for it.
Last edited by stef_204 (2015-01-25 20:09:50)
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