[SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

louic · 2015-02-15 11:41:06

I am not a beginner (not at all), but ever since I started switching destktop environments because of the changes from gnome 2 -> 3, I completely lost track of which piece of software manages what. At about the same time arch switched to systemd, and this did not help my understanding of the responsabilities for eg power management, display setup, plugging usb devices, changing volume, etc.

What is controlled by the desktop environment, what is controlled by systemd, and what is controlled dbus or by userspace tools and/or scripts? How does this depend on the choise of DE?

For example:
Who does the power management, (responding to button and lid-close events)? KDE? And what if I use MATE or XFCE instead? Does that change anything?

Another example:
Sometimes I have no sound but all kmix sliders are up. I use alsamixer to fix this, but why are they different? Can't they work together nicely?

I get the impression my system is a complete mess and I feel like I am losing control of what is going on. Any advice, or just a pointer to some good reading about this would be much appreciated.

Last edited by louic (2015-02-16 09:56:44)

makh · 2015-02-15 11:50:25

You are using a rolling distro. Try using a LTS kernel based,

pacman -S linux-lts

You wont be in a mess, hopefully.

2. Read "all the info on web" on "systemd", and you may put the pieces of the new linux puzzle.

Morn · 2015-02-15 11:51:34

Re the sound issue, these are best fixed with extra/pavucontrol. Sometimes PulseAudio has the wrong output device selected, e.g. HDMI instead of analog. ALSA no longer exists and is emulated by PulseAudio.

As for sound volume, if you kill kmix under KDE, you can no longer change volume via the keyboard's multimedia keys. So that is obviously something that needs the DE for support. In Gnome 3 OTOH, it is built-in and you can always control the volume from the keyboard.

graysky · 2015-02-15 11:57:39

makh wrote:

You are using a rolling distro. Try using a LTS kernel based,

These two lines are at odds in my opinion. A non-rolling distro and a lts kernel have nothing to do with his questions.

Trilby · 2015-02-15 12:12:51

There are many standards out there for X11 that define and delineate what program should be responsible for what. But none of these - as far as I know - say anything about DEs: there is no standard definition of DE, there is only a descriptive assessment of what most of them include. This is because "Desktop Environment" is not a software engineering concept, but rather a software marketing concept.

DEs can and do do whatever they want. If you don't like what one of them tries to do, don't use it. I don't like what any of them do, so I don't use any of them. I never fight with trying to get the plethora of DE-packaged tools to play well with the plethora of init-system tools. I just install and use the tools I want.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2015-02-15 12:43:55

GNOME takes over everything and KDE is very similar is this respect.

I actually find it easier to manage my system using a pure DWM or openbox (or similar) set up because all the low-level configuration files and X server tools are honoured.

louic · 2015-02-15 12:58:35

Thanks for all your answers. I think I agree with Trilby and Head_on_a_Stick and give openbox a serious try. I just hope not to lose too much of the convenient things such as good multi monitor support, a wifi manager, battery monitor, quicklaunch icons, window list, automounting, etc.

Last edited by louic (2015-02-15 13:00:10)

Trilby · 2015-02-15 13:10:18

Loic, none of those features are actually part of a DE, because when you look behind the curtain you find there is no actual tool or program that is "the DE" - just a creepy old man pulling levers and chains.

Silly metaphor aside, you can still do all those things, but now you'll have a choice in how to do them and you can pick and chose from *all* the tools out there to see which one works best for you.

While I don't use them, a good GUI file manager will actually fill several of the bits you mention. Pcmanfm always seemed pretty good (can manage automounting and desktop icons for example).

cafe · 2015-02-15 19:53:26

I don't know about any official standards that a software must comply to be entitle a "Desktop Environment" but I do know about the freedesktop project instead. From their website :

Freedesktop wrote:

freedesktop.org is open source / open discussion software projects working on interoperability and shared technology for X Window System desktops.
...
Unlike a standards organization, freedesktop.org is a "collaboration zone" where ideas and code are tossed around, and de facto specifications are encouraged.

They define things like :

* How a trash bin should be implemented
* What are the "default" users dirs
* How icons & themes should be used
* and many more...

I guess any DE is good as long as it pleases you..

teateawhy · 2015-02-15 22:07:11

You have already thought about the features that are important to you:
good multi monitor support, a wifi manager, battery monitor, quicklaunch icons, window list, automounting, etc.
The next step is to find the right tools that support these features. See this section for help with that.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/De … vironments

antsunrise · 2015-02-16 02:46:06

For sound issue I am guessing it's on xfce? I get that a lot. And mostly on my laptop.

I know a lot of times it has to do with alsa +pulse together. So removing all pulse helps. Or the pavuctronol can help. But it's always a mess for me. xfce also made distory noise with using hdmi tv as monitor (on my other computer for daugheter) So, I just switched to cinnamon and that was fixed instanly. the whole sound and xfce thing annoys me. Other than that. Great DE. As for your main question. I'm not even sure. I pretty much always use the same things so I guess I know how they work.

It sounds like you may need a fresh reinstall to clean up some messes. At least you're not running debian or ubuntu. There would be random othe rpackages everywhere

Last edited by antsunrise (2015-02-16 02:46:47)

louic · 2015-02-16 09:56:13

Yes my system is pretty messy at the moment, even more so because I tried many different DE's and WM's. So I will mess around a little longer with this until I find a nice selection of software to use, and then go for a reinstall.

I am marking this solved. The conclusion is that a DE is not a good choice (anymore) for me.

Last edited by louic (2015-02-16 10:11:00)

Arch Linux

#1 2015-02-15 11:41:06

[SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

#2 2015-02-15 11:50:25

Re: [SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

#3 2015-02-15 11:51:34

Re: [SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

#4 2015-02-15 11:57:39

Re: [SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

#5 2015-02-15 12:12:51

Re: [SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

#6 2015-02-15 12:43:55

Re: [SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

#7 2015-02-15 12:58:35

Re: [SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

#8 2015-02-15 13:10:18

Re: [SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

#9 2015-02-15 19:53:26

Re: [SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

#10 2015-02-15 22:07:11

Re: [SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

#11 2015-02-16 02:46:06

Re: [SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

#12 2015-02-16 09:56:13

Re: [SOLVED] What does the desktop environment do, and what not?

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