Installation Tutorial

motaito · 2015-02-15 02:46:26

Hi,

First of, I am not sure this is the right place to post this. It's not a tool I made but still some sort of contribution.

I spent the last week learning about arch-installs. I am a first time arch user and have never used it before. So, I started to write down all commands/steps that I took. Once there was a fair amount of commands, I started to comment some with hints to remind myself what they are about. Somehow this grew into a complete tutorial about installing arch. I know there are already plenty of tutorials out there (and of course the awesome arch wikis), but since I spent the time writing one myself for learning purposes, I figured why not share it. If some of you have the time to read through it (it's gotten pretty long) let me know if you like it or make some suggestions if you think it needs adjustments.

You can find it here:
http://www.motaito.com/src/page/ArchIns … ?n=0;0;0;0

Hope it helps!

ewaller · 2015-02-15 03:24:20

Hi, welcome to Arch and Thank You for the contribution.

We have received some comments that we really encourage the use of the official documentation over, as you point out, the multitude of home-spun guides out there. The problem is Arch changes fast and the guides become obsolete. But, I don't want to discourage what is a good effort. So, the sum total of my action is to paste this post as a caution to anyone following the guide -- it may not age well.

Motaiato, you might consider taking it upon yourself to keep it current.

motaito · 2015-02-15 03:31:56

Yes you are right. I will most likely not keep it up to date all the time (a bit of a time issue next to work). However, I have seen some 2-3 year old tutorials that were still helpful to me. I will at least make sure to post a note on the tutorial with the date and a reminder that arch is fast changing.

Thanks for the feedback.

Last edited by motaito (2015-02-15 03:33:04)

chickenPie4tea · 2015-02-19 12:50:46

Hi, It might be a good idea to also provide a link on your site so that people can download the tutorial as a .pdf as when it comes to installing arch they might not have a internet connection at first.

Awebb · 2015-02-19 13:00:02

This is what I see, when I follow your link.

EDIT: And this as well, in links. :-(

Last edited by Awebb (2015-02-19 13:05:43)

motaito · 2015-02-19 16:42:23

@chickenPie4tea
You would still need an internet connection to download the pdf's. But I guess you could do that with a liveUSB before installing. So, it might make sense to have some pdf's. I am pretty busy this week (and the weekend) but I should be able to add some downloadable pdf's during next week. I guess I will add the links on the overview page next to the remark about the creation date from the tutorials some time next week.

@Awebb
As you can see on the message in the first picture you will need a browser with JavaScript enabled. I doubt that links can do that. But your other browser should work. Or are you saying that you have JavaScript enabled and the message shows anyway?

Thanks for the feedback!

Awebb · 2015-02-19 17:34:06

No, I have JS disabled. I also cannot read your guide from the CLI, eg. the installer live system. This is what I wanted to make you aware of. That's like "How to climb stairs - now in stock on the 13th floor!".

motaito · 2015-02-19 19:51:17

I see... The entire website is really more of a hobby where I play around sometimes. Mostly I played a bit with the menu but kept the rest as simple as possible. The easiest way was to just use JavaScript. When loading content that way I have a simple separation between the layout and the content. So I can create content without effort in a text editor and don't need to adjust the website at all. I just link to it from the menu init script and everything else is taken car of. I also don't need to install/start a web server for testing/creating new content as internet explorer supports XMLHttpRequest locally. This way I can make quick changes and try out an Idea with practically no effort. So, I guess I won't add the ability to view the page without JavaScript any time soon. Sorry!

However, I keep it in mind should I decide to make a completely new website. For now the idea of the tutorial is not necessarily that you open it in links and just copy-paste the commands. It's more meant as an addition to understand the wiki more easily. It's a bit more compact than the wiki as everything is in one place (everything needed in succession). Where as the wiki-pages go into much more detail and you have to jump around a bit if you want to understand everything that is going on.

Head_on_a_Stick · 2015-02-19 20:39:50

So your tutorial requires users to have two computers: one with a fully working graphical environment and a javascript-enabled browser plus the computer to which Arch is being installed.

Alternatively use elinks on the live ISO and browse the Beginner's Guide (no JS required!) on TTY2 whilst running the commands on TTY1...

A few observations:

You have advised using a 512kb [sic] EFI partition -- 512MiB is the recommended size.
You have advised using a /boot partition separate from the EFI system partition and mounting /boot/efi at the ESP -- this is contrary to the recommendation in the Beginner's Guide and will lock the user into the GRUB bootloader; gummiboot or EFISTUB cannot be used with that set up (incidentally this will also hinder troubleshooting on the forums as it may be assumed that /boot is mounted at the ESP).
I like the section on xorg but the assertion at the end is incorrect -- for `startx` to work, ~/.xinitrc will have to be copied over from /etc/X11/xinitxinitrc

motaito · 2015-02-19 21:52:27

So your tutorial requires users to have two computers: one with a fully working graphical environment and a javascript-enabled browser plus the computer to which Arch is being installed.

As of now that's what it is. I have only worked on the tutorial, not on it's presentation
You could just replace the 'page' in the url with 'content' and get a vanilla HTML from the tutorial. E.g.

- http://www.motaito.com/src/page/ArchIns … ?n=0;0;0;1
- http://www.motaito.com/src/content/Arch … ?n=0;0;0;1

Then you can view it in any browser anywhere including elinks in a separate TTY without JavaScript support. But that's no where near obvious for a user. I think it makes the most sense to just copy all the contents into a separate HTML file. I can then use it to create a PDF and link to both (the PDF and the vanilla HTML). However, you still need an internet connection and a browser to find it in the first place... That's why I did not consider it as important. But if I make the adjustments anyway, I might as well provide both.

You have advised using a 512kb [sic] EFI partition -- 512MiB is the recommended size.

Oops, that's a typo. I will adjust it.

You have advised using a /boot partition separate from the EFI system partition and mounting /boot/efi at the ESP -- this is contrary to the recommendation in the Beginner's Guide and will lock the user into the GRUB bootloader; gummiboot or EFISTUB cannot be used with that set up (incidentally this will also hinder troubleshooting on the forums as it may be assumed that /boot is mounted at the ESP).

I intended to write the tutorial for installing with GRUB. I have a hint in a note that you should refer to the arch wiki for other bootloaders. Maybe it's sufficient to be more explicit about it? Otherwise I will write something that I have not actually tested myself. I don't like that. I would rather make a reinstall and test it before writing about changes in the setup. Not sure... but I will probably add that this setup is specific for GRUB.

I like the section on xorg but the assertion at the end is incorrect -- for `startx` to work, ~/.xinitrc will have to be copied over from /etc/X11/xinitxinitrc

Are you sure? I have not explicitly copied the file. I checked again just to be sure and I don't have a ~/.xinitrc file. Everything works just fine here. From what I understand x will first check in the home directory and if there is no file it will check /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc for a default. So, if you make no adjustments to the file you should not have to copy it. Am I missing something?

Thanks for the inputs so far. I don't usually write tutorials. I have only ever written two I only made them to learn for myself but decided since they are here I might as well put it on my page and share them. So it's very helpful to have insights form others.

Last edited by motaito (2015-02-19 21:53:37)

Head_on_a_Stick · 2015-02-19 22:01:55

motaito wrote:

Are you sure? I have not explicitly copied the file. I checked again just to be sure and I don't have a ~/.xinitrc file. Everything works just fine here. From what I understand x will first check in the home directory and if there is no file it will check /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc for a default. So, if you make no adjustments to the file you should not have to copy it. Am I missing something?

Ooops no you're quite right there, my mistake -- sorry!

Alad · 2015-02-19 22:44:54

I think it would be more fruitful for the community if people added to the current effort in merging the Beginners' guide with the Installation guide. Former is filled with unnecessary tangents while latter is the extreme opposite.

Not downplaying your work, just my 2c.

Last edited by Alad (2015-02-19 22:45:13)

2ManyDogs · 2015-02-19 23:04:52

^ As jasonwryan once said:

jasonwryan wrote:

Having said that, the Beginners' Guide typically goes through a cycle; it gets cleaned up and slimmed down and then, as it is editable by anyone, over time it accumulates more and more "helpful" information until it resembles Elvis in his final years, lurching around Graceland with a fried peanut butter sandwich, obese, sweating and incoherent...

I have seen a few of these cycles. The BG hasn't quite gotten to the fried peanut butter sandwiches, but it definitely has the sequins and sunglasses.

The Installation Guide stays pure and simple because it cannot be edited by the community, and it is useful for people who already know what they are doing. I personally don't think the two should be merged. Go ahead and try to slim down the BG (this is a good idea) but don't expect it to stay that way.

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2015-02-19 23:06:49)

Alad · 2015-02-19 23:07:49

After the merge (which is already decided to happen) the Installation guide would likely stay locked. It's a good argument for doing so anyways.

Last edited by Alad (2015-02-19 23:09:59)

2ManyDogs · 2015-02-19 23:08:53

Alad wrote:

After the merge (which is already decided to happen) the Installation guide would likely stay locked.

Well then. Good luck with that.

Last edited by 2ManyDogs (2015-02-19 23:49:22)

Alad · 2015-02-20 00:20:35

Thanks, we'll need it.

Awebb · 2015-02-20 00:32:59

Arch, where writing a guide is opening a can or worms. Haha.

motaito · 2015-02-20 08:56:39

I found it quite good that the beginners guide and the install guide are separate. The BG has more details and theory while the install guide is straight to the point. Like I mentioned earlier I have no intention to compete with the arch wikis. That would be quite hopeless as they are famous in the linux world for a reason.

The arch wikis are kind of like reading up on a math theory. Where as my tutorial is more like seeing an actual example/application of that theory. For me it was helpful to gather info online and based on that write down the commands that are needed (for me) as a result of my research. That collection of commands is what eventually turned into a tutorial. I don't think that I have enough insight in arch/linux to contribute to the arch wikis so I decided to put the tutorial on my website in case someone else might profit from it. After all it's the web where I found my info in the first place. I had to gather that info on various places and put it together so I thought it might be good to put it together into a single place mostly so that I don't have to search all over the place again but also as an example. But it's really just one example of many possible ways to install. It's also a snapshot in time as arch is fast moving forward. Anyone interested in the inner workings of arch will inevitably go to the arch wiki. The idea was that my tutorial might just help someone to get into it a bit quicker... hopefully

As for the mentioned changes, I will need some more time... hopefully I get around doing it next week.

motaito · 2015-02-22 18:54:04

I made an update. You might need to refresh the page to see it as these are static html pages.

Update:
- Fixed some typos
- Added PDF
- Added standalone HTML. I checked in links and it worked. Although, the formatting is not perfect, I think it should suffice if you want it as a reference in a separate TTY while making an install.

bstaletic · 2015-02-23 02:06:25

Why are esp and /boot not the same? It makes installation and maintenance easier.

motaito · 2015-02-23 10:46:10

There is no particular reason other than I wanted the esp to be separate. I have already added a note that the setup is specific for installation with GRUB. Maybe I should be more explicit that this is not necessarily a requirement?

How does it make maintenance easier if esp is not separate?

chickenPie4tea · 2015-02-23 12:26:12

Thanks for the .pdf it's easy to print out a copy.

bstaletic · 2015-02-23 12:42:37

Relevant files need to be on esp. If kernel (for example) is not on esp user would need to copy it to the correct location every time it is updated.

motaito · 2015-02-23 13:11:19

@chickenPie4tea
No problem, your welcome.

@bstaletic
Thanks for the info. So, you would recommend one /boot partition which is formatted as vfat and just have a /boot/efi directory directly on it, right? If that is the recommended way for arch, I will make sure to add a note about it and point out that the separate efi partition is not needed (in fact not recommended by arch) and only there because I wanted to make it separate out of interest. Then the reader has a warning that it might/will require more maintenance. I am a bit surprised though because once all partitions are mounted the path to access various directories is the same. I would have expected that an update would be able to handle it.

bstaletic · 2015-02-23 13:34:28

Not all paths are the same. If you need a path relative to esp you would have different paths depending on location of esp. Everything else is correct.

Arch Linux

#1 2015-02-15 02:46:26

Installation Tutorial

#2 2015-02-15 03:24:20

Re: Installation Tutorial

#3 2015-02-15 03:31:56

Re: Installation Tutorial

#4 2015-02-19 12:50:46

Re: Installation Tutorial

#5 2015-02-19 13:00:02

Re: Installation Tutorial

#6 2015-02-19 16:42:23

Re: Installation Tutorial

#7 2015-02-19 17:34:06

Re: Installation Tutorial

#8 2015-02-19 19:51:17

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#9 2015-02-19 20:39:50

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#10 2015-02-19 21:52:27

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#13 2015-02-19 23:04:52

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#15 2015-02-19 23:08:53

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#16 2015-02-20 00:20:35

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